---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Munich malts, but not really (Michael)
  Using Hose in Home Brewing (King Queen)
  re: Indefinite Repitching (Dane Mosher)
  What about the hops of the Reinheitsgebot ("Steve B")
  Yeast Generations (gornicwm)
  CF chillers ("Bridges, Scott")
  RE: Indefinite Repitching and Yeast Mutation (Bob Hall)
  RE: several things (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
  Fermenator and Other Stainless Conicals (anix)
  Cooper Carbonation Drops ("H. Dowda")
  Re: Light and Dark Munich Malts (Jeff Renner)
  RE: Light and Dark Munich Malts ("John Zierdt")
  Re: Indefinite Repitching and Yeast Mutation (Jeff Renner)
  Ranco/Freezer Problems (Bob Hall)
  Uberflussigereinheitsabout ("Dave Burley")
  Re: Crystal Malt Use (Denny Conn)
  Re: Light and Dark Munich Malts (Denny Conn)
  Cidery Beer, Clinit*st, phosphate pH stabilizer ("Dave Burley")
  Beer is good for you ("Dave Burley")
  Re:  Counter Flow Chillers (Tim & Cindy Howe)
  Polarware Brewpot ("William Erskine")


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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:46:01 -0600
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Munich malts, but not really

Robert asks about light and dark Munich malts, and hasn't receive any
replies. Robert, I think you've taken entirely the wrong approach if you
want to generate some conversation. The best way to do this is to state
a strong opinion, especially if it's wrong. So let me rephrase the
original question for you:

I don't understand why people use dark Munich malts. No one could
possibly make a decent with dark Munich malt, and frankly I can't
believe that anyone would bother trying. Poultry, heavy metal,
vegetables and dark Munich malt just don't belong in beer.

See how it's done? I imagine it works better if you don't tell everyone
what you're doing first.

Michael
Middleton WI

P.S. I see fruit didn't make it into Steve A.'s Neo-Reinheitsgebot list
of Verboten Beer Ingredients. I understand that chile peppers, while
commonly considered a vegetable, are actually fruit. But I digress.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:01:50 +0000
From: King Queen <kq at kingqueen.org.uk>
Subject: Using Hose in Home Brewing

David Houseman mentioned the possibility of using garden hose in home brewing.

I wouldn't advocate that as I would be concerned that some of the platicisers 
may come out into the wort, but it is possible to get "catering grade" hose 
that does the job admirably. Being specially designed for food, I'm more happy 
with leaving it in contact with wort.

I use it a lot - attached to my kitchen tap, it is very good for washing out 
fermenting bins etc. I also use it to connect up my copper wort chiller which 
can cool down a 23 litre gyle from boiling to pitching temperature in 15-20 
minutes, in the process causing an excellent "cold break". As such a lot of the 
proteins in the beer coagulate as trub, in the process helping prevent a 
protein haze in the resulting beer.

Copper has a much higher thermal conductivity than plastic so I doubt the same 
cooling rate could be produced by cooling purely with a coiled hose.

All the best

Doug



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 02:09:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Dane Mosher <dane_mosher at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Indefinite Repitching

Ale-X wrote:
>Our brewclub visited a fairly large Vermont micro
where the master brewer claims they have been
repitching the same yeast (Yorkshire, apparently) ever
since they opened (something like 11 years ago)...all
their beers exhibit a very obvious 'house flavour'
that may be due in part to the yeast used.
 
Jason Poll wrote:
>I'm just of the opinion that this isn't necessarily a
bad thing. I like the idea of a brewery having their
own 'house-yeast' strains -- adding another way that
their beers can be truly unique."

I agree.  I didn't mean to come down against house
flavors.  They can be a good thing, and all unique
strains probably develop this way.  
 
But I would suggest to these breweries if they haven't
yet done so to send a sample of their yeast to a yeast
bank for cryo-storage, because there might come a day
when they will need to build it up again from a pure
culture.  If they have to go back to their original
Wyeast (or whatever) strain, their house flavor will
be gone.
 
Cheers!
Dane



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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:43:50 -0500
From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com>
Subject: What about the hops of the Reinheitsgebot

What about the hops part of the regulation?  Most beer up to that point was 
brewed with gruit as a flavoring substance.  Gruit is essentially a mixture 
of herbs and roots added to the boil.  Each brewer and possibly brew had 
their own mixture depending on the flavor profile attempted.  Perhaps the 
masses were becoming a bit tired of straining the "tea leaves" out of their 
beer.  And with a little help from the hop growing lobby perhaps the royals 
felt the need for this new law in order to keep out the other flavorings and 
create a "clear" beer for drinking.
S



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:13:53 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: gornicwm at earthlink.net
Subject: Yeast Generations

I think that it is possible to use the same strain for many generations,
but then it becomes a matter of quality control, I would think.

The consciences brew master would need whip out a microscope, 
amongst other instruments, at some point, to determine what critter 
she/he is actually fermenting with as well as the overall health of the 
sample.

Slants could be created with intended colony and this would indeed count 
as a generation of the strain.  The slant would need to be stepped up by the 
brewery, in order to reach the proper pitchable level.

The mind blowing question is...for example...Chimay produces many big beers...
if Chimay is tossing the yeast after every batch, then what means do they use 
to reach a pitchable levels once again.

Is there a way to test the cake from a prior trippel and say, "We've got a good 
yeast source here, but its exhausted"?  Will adding a nutrient solution of some 
kind get these critters back on track.  There has got to be a short cut!!!

Can tired yeast be re-built/revived?  How?

I know this is going into a deeper level of cellular biology...I should just go 
buy a book.  I LOVE this hobby!!!  Thanks Everyone!!!  :-)

Bill Gornicki
CRAFT Homebrew Club
Michigan


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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:20:45 -0500
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: CF chillers


Dave and Tim write:

>> a) minimum diameter for the inner tube
>> b) minimum diameter for the outer tube
>> I'm thinking 1/4'' inner 3/8" outer or 3/8" inner
>> 1/2" outer. I haven't looked into fittings/adapters
>> etc and that may be a factor as well.
>> Oh yeah, one other question: Is natural gas pipe
>> suitable for brewing?
>
>Tim, I don't see any benefit to a copper exterior.  I found that using a
>standard 3/4" garden hose works great.  In fact I believe it's Listermann
>who has a great adapter kit that contains all the fittings for 3/8"
interior
>copper tubing inside a garden hose.  I made one of these and it works
great.
>Simple.  BTW, they may have coils, but you will have to straighten them out
>first to get one inside the other and then carefully re-coil so as not to
>kink the copper, a fatal mistake for the new CFC.

BTW, another tip I read here some time ago is that Corny kegs are a good
size to wrap the copper around to re-coil.  The diameter of the keg will not
allow you to coil it so tightly that the tubing kinks.  I used this and can
attest that it works.  I also used Phil's Phittings and they work great,
too.  I need to replace my CFC before the next brew day since I wore the
last one out.    

Scott



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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:58:54 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net>
Subject: RE: Indefinite Repitching and Yeast Mutation

Some time ago I was talking with a brewer from Barley's in Columbus, OH 
about their procedures. He told me that their house yeast (which I think 
originally was Wyeast 1968) had been repitched "hundreds of times .... it 
likes it here." His theory was that most yeast mutation occurs early-on, 
and once adjusted for local water, fermenter design, etc. it can remain 
fairly stable barring any interference from infection, etc. Don't know if 
there is any scientific evidence, but it's an interesting theory.

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:59:25 -0500
From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: RE: several things

Several things to respond to today...

RE: Counterflow chillers

In my case there was a benefit to using copper for the outer tubing. My
CF chiller is permanently mounted in my rack right below the boil
kettle, and therefore right below the burner. I used copper to prevent
any possibility of damaging the outer tubing.

I bought a 60' roll of 7/8" OD, and 3 25' rolls of 3/8" OD to make 3
chillers. NOTE: 7/8 OD uses 3/4 standard fittings, 3/8 OD uses 1/4
standard fittings. I left the 7/8" tubing coiled, measured around the
coil, and  split it into 3 20' pieces. I formed these around a Sanke
keg, then did the same with the 3/8" tubing. Then I laid a 7/8" coil on
a bench, and fed the 3/8" coil into it, bouncing the assembly up and
down on the bench as it met resistance. It took about 2 minutes to get
it all the way thru.

I used 3/4 x 1/2 x 1/2" tees, then added a 1/2 x 1/4 reducer with the
stops drilled out so the 3/8" tubing sticks straight out of the 7/8"
tubing thru the tee and the reducer. The 1/2" tee side is soldered to my
1/2" water supply pipe, but for the other two (for 2 other club members)
I just soldered garden hose fittings on them. All the fittings were
available from local plumbing supply houses, or the big home stores. I
believe that the cost of materials came out to around $110, which is
less than $40 each.

I used 1/4" ball valves on my kettles back when it was a gravity system,
so I went with 3/8 OD (1/4 ID) tubing to match that. In retrospect, If I
were to do it over (and I may) I would go with 3/8" ball valves and 1/2
OD for the inner tubing, and 1/2 x 3/8 reducers, but everything else
would be the same.


RE: Light and Dark Munich malts

Robert, I use as much dark as I do light. My standard alt recipe is a
50/50 mix of dark and light for a 1.050 gravity (thanks to Al K for a
great recipe), and while I can't offer any insight into the differences
between the two, I do continue to use them both because I like the
resulting malty character. I also use the dark munich in Dunkles and
Schwartzbier, and I think it would be good in brown ales too - anywhere
you want a fairly dark beer with lots of malty character.

RE: covering starter containers

I also use aluminum foil to cover my flasks. I mix 1L water & 4 oz DME
in a 2L widemouth flask, put a stir bar in it, cover loosely with the
foil, and boil for 15 minutes. Then I put a rubber band around the foil
and set the flask in a sink of cold water to cool. After it is cool I
remove the rubber band and loosen the foil quite a bit, allowing for
gaseous exchange between the interior and the atmosphere and put it on a
stir plate. I'll get about 3/16" of slurry after it is done,
refrigerated, and settled out, then pour off the supernatant and add
another liter of wort the morning of brewday. By pitching time it is at
high krausen, and within 4 hours or less there is bubbling in the
airlock (10 gallon batches).


Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin)
[421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] AR




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:13:50 -0500
From: anix <anix at vt.edu>
Subject: Fermenator and Other Stainless Conicals

Howdy y'all,

Just thought I would ask if anyone has any experience with the Fermenator or 
any other stainless conicals.  I recently acquired the 12.2 gal model as a 
combined gift from several friends and family members and am using it for the 
first batch right now.  I read through the instructions to see if there were 
any tips or tricks to cleaning, sealing, etc and followed their directions for 
filling completely with sanitizer (I use iodophor) and increasing the pressure 
on the lid until sanitizer stops "weeping" out the edges of the lid seal.  It 
is supposedly then "ready for use" after emptying the sanitizer.

Everything looked great with the seal during sanitizing, with no leakage, so I 
filled the fermenter after chilling in the kettle through the airlock port.  
After a day and a half of being in the fermenter, the airlock had not shown 
any positive pressure and pulling the pressure relief valve also (as expected) 
did not let any CO2 out.  I opened the fermenter viewport up and the wort 
appeared to be fermenting fine, so I inspected around the edges of the lid 
seal with my nose and sure enough, there were some big drafts of CO2 coming 
out.

So, my question after the dissertation above.  Do you find that you really 
have to crank down on the lid seal to get a nice tight seal under the small 
increase in pressure generated during fermentation?  I know the lid seal is 
probably sufficient to keep air out when the pressures are relatively 
equalized, and during fermentation there is enough positive pressure inside 
the tank to keep external nasties out, but I am thinking about what happens 
during secondary.  I would feel much better with a good tight seal.  The 
problem is that cranking down on the sealing stopper may possibly bend the lid 
at some point?

Any insight and related experiences appreciated.

Drew Nix
Lusby, MD

Andrew Nix



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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:36:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Cooper Carbonation Drops

If you use 1 per 12 oz bottle, what level of
carbonation results?  Reading the package it seems
there is a lot of carbohydrate of mixed types.

With PrimeTab, which is all glucose, it is easy to
adjust carbonation level.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:56:31 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Light and Dark Munich Malts

Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> is anxious in Arlington, VA

>What are the differences (if any) between the taste and usage of light
>(8L) and dark (16L) Munich malts (of German origin)?

Of course, the best way to find out the answers to your questions is 
to brew with both!  Some time back in the 80's this is what I did. 
We pioneers didn't have much information. ;-)

I wanted to brew a Munich Dunkles and figured that obviously, this 
must be done with all Munich malt in Munich.  I had 8L Munich, and 
was disappointed to get a more or less Vienna looking amber beer 
using 100%.  Tasted more like a Vienna, too, but good.

Now I have available two slightly darker German Munich malts from 
Durst - 20EBC and 40EBC, which is approximately 10L and 20L.  The 
darker is higher kilned and has more melanoidins with a richer, 
fuller flavor, but no roasted notes.  I've brewed with 100% of this 
and it's pretty close to a Dunkles.  A touch (no more than 1%) of 
debittered chocolate helps put it closer to style, or at least closer 
to what I wanted.

Both Munich malts result in lower attenuation in my experience.  I 
don't like cloying, sweet Dunkles, so I mash at a lower temperature 
(149F/65C) or two steps (145F/63C, 158F/70C).  With good pitching 
rates of healthy yeast, this generally results in full attenuation - 
75%.

Dark Munich is a standard malt for me for some non-traditional 
styles.  I just kegged a very nice American brown ale that used ~18% 
Munich.  I often use 5-10% in British bitters, and in British mild I 
use 40%+.  It adds a nice rich maltiness in these styles proportional 
to the amount used.  Some light Munich, maybe 25%, might be nice in 
an Irish red ale.

Now go out and brew a couple of beers (preferably lagers) at 1.050 
each using 100% of each!  Don't change any other parameters.  Hop to 
low 20s with German hops so as not to obscure the malt flavor.  You 
will get two nice beers, and then you will be the Munich expert and 
can report back.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:15:34 -0600
From: "John Zierdt" <John.Zierdt at msl.army.mil>
Subject: RE: Light and Dark Munich Malts

>What are the differences (if any) between the taste and usage of light

>(8L) and dark (16L) Munich malts (of German origin)?

>What style did you use light Munich malt in? And dark? What amounts
did you use? 
>How did the beers taste and how did they differ from a beer without
Munich in the grist?

I recently made a lager using 100% light Munich Malt (6-10L), Spalt
hops, and Bock yeast with an OG of 1.050.  The beer tastes wonderful
with a toasty malt flavor and aroma, but well  balanced in hop
bitterness and flavor.  Hop aroma is low.  The beer does not really fit
into any style.  It is overly hoppped for a VMO, too small for a bock,
to light for a dunkel.  It is closest to an alt but with a definite
lager taste.   This beer was very well received by my homebrew club and
is a nice way to showcase the flavor of munich malt.   I can't really
talk to the difference between this beer and one made with the dark
munich, but I can't imagine being able to get much more munich flavor in
a beer.  I would not expect much difference, except in color.  Mine is a
light copper color and I think the darker munich would turn out to be a
deeper copper color.  Without Munich in the grist, this beer would taste
like hop water with yeast and would just plain suck ;-)

I really love the flavor of munich and use a lot of it in my beers.  I 
have used both light and dark in the past but not compared them side by
side.  I prefer the lighter version because I typically use about 20%
munich in the grist of my IPAs and don't want them getting too dark.  If
I want to increase the color of a beer, I use other specialty grains.  

Hope this helps,

John Zierdt
Huntsville, AL






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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:18:52 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Indefinite Repitching and Yeast Mutation

Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>, who is now in Moncton, 
New Brunswick, wonders

>Is it in any way possible that once a yeast strain has adapted to a
>brewery it may remain rather stable for a large number of generations?


I think this is very likely, and it what was traditionally done 
before single cell culturing.  It can result in bad beer, of course, 
but can also result in characterful, complex beer.  If I am not 
mistaken, the Duvel (or some other famous Belgian brewery) yeast is a 
single strain that was isolated in the 1930's from a mixed strain of 
twenty-some from McEwan's in Scotland.

I visited McGuire's Irish Pub in Pensacola, FL 
http://www.mcguiresirishpub.com in 1997 and spoke with the brewer. 
He said they had been top-skimming yeast and serially repitching for 
over ten years without a problem.  Their beers were somewhat lacking 
in character, but that was due to the market demands, which, among 
other things, requires ice cold beer served in mugs straight from the 
freezer.

The brewer set aside a plastic cup of yeast in the bar fridge for me 
to take home (a standard offering to homebrewers), but when we were 
ready to leave, the fridge had been locked, so I never tried it.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:34:57 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net>
Subject: Ranco/Freezer Problems

This morning I went down to the basement and noticed that my Ranco temp. 
display read 57F instead of the usual 35F. Wow, I thought, did my freezer 
compresser take a dump? Quite to the contrary, when I lifted the lid I was 
greeted with frozen, broken bottles. Fortunately, there were only a dozen 
or so bottles in there at the time; no carboys. A mess non-the-less. 
Figuring that the sensor or thermostat in the Ranco had passed on to a 
better place, I plugged the freezer directly into the outlet. Humm, the 
light stayed on and the freezer kept running even when I turned the dial to 
OFF. Now I'm a bit puzzled. The Ranco was reading at almost room temp even 
though the probe in the freezer was freezing, and the freezer won't shut 
off regardless of its own dial setting. Did they both go south on me?

Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH



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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:43:44 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Uberflussigereinheitsabout

Brewsters:

Well, I cerainly found out a way to keep Steve Alexander off the streets. {8^)

My point was that Reinheitsgebot ( and other beer regulations) were
established for FINANCIAL reasons not a high and mighty purpose.

Frankly I don't have time to address ( and didn't even read them all)  his
many points even if I thought it was important.

If you want a really well written and good history of German Beer brewing I
suggest "PROST!" by Horst D. Dornbusch ( Brewers Publications).

In there, p 39,  he says:

"By the twelfth century , feudal aristocrats .. began to take over the brew
business from the monasteries and convents..... As it turned out the
transferring of the brewing priviledges of the monks and nuns were much more
easily transferred than their brewing expertise, and beer quality declined.
 ......"

" brews...that were in vogue in the High Middle Ages ....used barley, wheat,
rye, and oats, even millet, peas, beans, or any other starch containing
kernels in their mash tuns."

p 40

"As beer quality fell, so did consumption.  This called for intervention, if
need be at the highest level, lest profits for the noble coffers should
suffer."

Dornbusch then goes through the first known beer regulation in Germany (
1156 ), 1293 Nurnberg issue a  regulation that only barley is to be used, etc.
on through proving that Reinheitsgebot was not the first. By 1447
Regensburghers had had enough bad beer that they forbid "seeds, spice or
rushes".

69 years later Reinheitsgebot came along and eventually spread across Germany

Steve says in his first e-pistle

">>Subject: Uberflussigereinheitsabout

>Overflight is an understatement -"

And, Steve, "Uberflussige" does not mean "overflight" but "over flowing" or
"superfluous"  Which I think sums this up perfectly.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley





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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:58:52 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Crystal Malt Use

I've used it quite a bit.  I really like it, but that amount is gonna be 
way over the top, in my opinion, especially given the amount of crystal in 
there, too.  I'd recommend cutting it back to no more than a lb.

         --------------->Denny

At 12:41 AM 2/19/04 -0500, Robert Sandefer wrote:


>I regularly use 1 pound of crystal malt per 5-gal batch of porter or
>stout. In lighter beers (of which I make few) I generally use no more than
>  .5 pound of crystal malt.
>
>While the recipe provided (with 2.15 lbs crystal, .85 lbs Munich, and 1.75
>lbs honey malt) has quite a bit of specialty malts, I believe it has a
>chance at being a good beer. I'm not getting any warning signals per se.
>
>I cannot comment on the use of honey malt (as I have not used it).




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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:02:12 -0800
From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
Subject: Re: Light and Dark Munich Malts

The light contributes a kind of kicked up maltiness to the beer.  The dark 
does that also, but maybe with a touch of chocolate nuttiness to it.  I use 
light Munich for altbier, and a 50/50 combo of light and dark for Munich 
dunkel.

         ------------->Denny

At 12:41 AM 2/19/04 -0500, Robert Sandefer  wrote:
>Since apparently no one read Digest #4476 :) I am asking again:
>
>What are the differences (if any) between the taste and usage of light
>(8L) and dark (16L) Munich malts (of German origin)?






Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:26:00 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Cidery Beer, Clinit*st, phosphate pH stabilizer

Brewsters:

Fredrik, one way to test your theory is to add distilled white vinegar to
non-cidery beers and see if the cidery impresssion develops.
- -----------------
Yep,AJ, Clinitest does work as I said and as you pointed out this is related
to a standard test in the brewing industry.  Thanks for the information .
Clinitest is MUCH easier to implement and of sufficient accuracy for brewing.

My, my. Where were you and Gump when this argument was on fire?  Not blaming
anyone, just wish I would have been allowed to impart some information to this
digest with sceptics not afraid to actually try a test ( "rather take a stick
in the eye than try it" - AlK). BTW what were the results of Louis Bonham's
definitive tests?  Strange I never heard the results...

I have no interest in starting this thread again, but it is nice to know that
some people were listening and actually use this superior method in evaluating
their beers. I use it all the time

Thanks.
- -----------------
As far as Williams pH stabilizer goes, phosphate buffers are well known, but
in this case I would guess it might strip calcuim from the beer and cause
fermentation problems.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley




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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:48:05 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Beer is good for you

Brewsters:

You've probably seen this but check this out.

http://www.sydes.net/jokes/flash/beer.swf

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley



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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:21:58 -0500
From: Tim & Cindy Howe <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: Re:  Counter Flow Chillers


>From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
>
>Tim, I don't see any benefit to a copper exterior.  I found that using a
>standard 3/4" garden hose works great.  In fact I believe it's Listermann
>who has a great adapter kit that contains all the fittings for 3/8" interior
>copper tubing inside a garden hose.  I made one of these and it works great.
>Simple.  BTW, they may have coils, but you will have to straighten them out
>first to get one inside the other and then carefully re-coil so as not to
>kink the copper, a fatal mistake for the new CFC.

Thanks for the response Dave. I am considering the garden hose outer as 
well, and as you state, it appears to be just as workable and significantly 
cheaper. The Listermann fittings look nice, and would do the trick. One 
thing I wonder about though is wouldn't you go through a considerable 
amount of water going 3/8" / 3/4"?

And another thought that would apply to all CFCs: what do most folks use as 
a racking cane? I get the impression that many use copper pipe, and in a 
copper/copper situation just latch the CFC to the side of the brew pot. 
Probably not a good idea with a garden hose outer, although I suppose even 
at boiling temp the pot wouldn't be hot enough to damage the hose. But even 
still, are you aware of a flex hose arrangement, either metal or food grade 
plastic that would allow sitting the CFC beside the brew kettle yet give 
you some mobility with the actual racking? I'm thinking something along the 
lines of a shower head on a flex hose....The reason I'm asking is that I've 
been toting around a garden hose all winter to keep our rink going, and I 
can't see holding that in one hand while I try and rack with the other.

Cheers,

Tim Howe
London, Ont




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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:24:37 -0500
From: "William Erskine" <werskin at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Polarware Brewpot

Hello all,

I am beginning to assemble the equipment for all-grain brewing.  I have
never
brewed all-grain before, so be patient with me.

I am considering the purchase of a new stainless steel brewpot.  So far I've
 narrowed it down to a Polarware brewpot.  I am considering Beer Beer &
More Beer  and  St. Pats.  Both have what appear to be excellent
reputations.
I am going with 15 gallons for 5 & 10 gallon batches.   St. Patrick's 15
Gallon
Stainless Steel Brewpot seems to be different from the B3 pot in that it has
a
swagelok fitting and that it has threads on the inside of the drain to
attach
accessories to.  Such as pick up tubes or an EZ masher or other things.

If I understand correctly, the B3  15 gallon Polarware pot doesn't have this
setup.
The inside of the drain fitting is smooth, making attaching an accessory
harder,
or not possible at all.

Am I correct in assessing these pots?  If so, which is better?  I'd like
some
opinions from people who have used either of these pots.  I think I'd rather
order it from B3 because they ship free.  St. Pats will charge approx. $20
to ship. But
I am concerned about the fitting not allowing me to connect things.
I am planning to use a cooler for mashing,  I wasn't planning to buy the
false bottom.
To separate the hops from the wort after boiling I plan to whirlpool the
wort and
then draw it off.  I've read a lot about this whirlpool technique.  The
other way I have
read about is to use a piece of stainless steel mesh hose that connects
water to a toilet.
This is why I am so concerned about the fitting.

This will be a big purchase for me and I want to get it right.

Another question I have is regarding building an immersion chiller.  What
length
of copper tubing should I use?   25 feet of 3/8 inch seems straightforward.
What about
50 feet?  Does the extra 25' make much of a difference?

William Erskine
London, Ontario.




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