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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  looking for jeffrenner ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  re: Bourbon Stout (rdavis77)
  Converting recipes for use by a brit :) ("Scammell, Ken")
  bottling oak barrel stout ("Steve B")
  Re: session beer recipe (Jeff Renner)
  Orlando beer (Jeff Renner)
  San Antonio ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Water salts: kettle vs. mashtun ("Dave Draper")
  salts in mash ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  post your location (Jeff Renner)
  Re: session beer recipe (Mark Beck)
  head retention ("Janie Curry")
  RE: Gas temp control ("Todd K.")
  Re: Gas temp control (Kent Fletcher)


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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 00:32:03 -0400
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: looking for jeffrenner

In searching for Jeff Renner's previously posted recipe for a 
mild/session beer, it has been said (HBD 4513):

"I can't seem to find any in the archives because searching for "Renner" 
is like searching on "homebrewing" ;)"

and ...

"Yeah, that's a problem I have as well. I find that using my email user 
name "jeffrenner" helps, but since any HBD
issue that I post in will get a hit, and that's many of them, it is 
still a problem."

An easy solution:
1) Go to Google, type 'site:hbd.org' (TIP: make this a bookmark/favorite).
2) Then type 'jeffrenner mild recipe'
3) Viola! Hit #1 gives the desideratum: hbd.org/hbd/archive/4318.html#4318-4

Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
http://hbd.org/ensmingr





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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 01:02:53 -0400
From: rdavis77 at erols.com
Subject: re: Bourbon Stout

"Spencer W. Thomas" writes (regarding the uniqueness of the newly 
bottled & kegged Old Dominion Oak Barrel Stout):

"New Holland Brewery has been distributing their Dragons Milk this 
winter.  It's a stout-like beer (not sure it's exactly |a stout, but 
close enough) aged 4 months in Bourbon barrels. "

I mis-communicated...  Various craft brewers have done bourbon-barrel 
beers at various times and places--thought its pretty rare, so I 
gather.  Some of those exquisite beers are even bottled--but have to be 
in very limited quantities, as bourbon barrels don't make that many 
cases, relative to a brewery's typical bottling run.

Old Dominion has figured out a way to pretty well reproduce their 
on-tap-only-in-the-brew-pub-bourbon-barrel-stout using oak chips and 
vanilla beans, and a special stout malt and hop formula SO IT CAN BE 
MADE IN REGULAR LARGE BOTTLING RUN QUANTITIES.  No, its not precisely 
like the "real thing," but close enough.  As far as reproducing the oak 
bourbon barrel flavor in standard large stainless commercial fermenters, 
I think OD is unique...for now.

Those who will make it to the greater Washington DC/Northern 
Virginia/Maryland area would do well to try it out...or look for it at 
the GABF in Colorado.





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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:58:59 +0100 
From: "Scammell, Ken" <KScammell at alliedcarpets.com>
Subject: Converting recipes for use by a brit :)

Hi all - first time poster from Britain.  I am quite a beginner and just
getting to grips with all grain - but loving it all the way.  Things are
quite different on this side of the ocean and I cannot get the ingredients
often specified in recipes.  Do any other Brits (or anybody) know where I
can read/learn how to convert a recipe??

I sure wish homebrew was as big over here :)

thanks in advance

ken


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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:59:47 -0400
From: "Steve B" <habenero92 at hotmail.com>
Subject: bottling oak barrel stout

I hate to disagree but.....
rdavis77 said:
by the way their OAK BARREL STOUT is now in bottles (as of March 25), I
think the only brewer in America to have worked out a bottled formula
for stout conditioned in bourbon barrels....really delicious)  Those in
the mid-Atlantic region look for it in stores....

I read recently that they are not barrel conditioning the bottle product.  
They are using a flavoring extract to imitate the flavor for the bottled 
product.  The speed of conditioning was the main reason for using the 
extract.  But the Oak Barrel Stout found at the brewery will still be barrel 
conditioned (the only place it can be had).

S



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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:47:58 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: session beer recipe

I wrote:

>I brewed a mild with a fair amount of Munich for my annual TV U of M
>football party last August.

Not that it makes much difference, but since of the people who were 
there are digest readers (and janitors), I should correct this.  I 
brewed it on October 20 and served it on November 15.  I like to 
serve low gravity real ales fresh.  I've served them in as little as 
five days "grain to brain," although that was in an emergency.

>Hops:
>
>1.0 oz. Challenger at 7% (seemed lower) 60 minutes for target 16 IBU
>0.2 oz. Challenger at 7% for target 3 IBU
>1.0 oz. Willamette at 5.9% for target 7 IBU

I neglected to give times for the second and third additions - they 
were 50 minutes and 25 minutes respectively.  I wasn't after hop 
aroma.

Thanks to Peter Ensminger for his search suggestion - this is how I 
found my original post.  Google's site searches aren't as good as 
Spencer's old search engine, but they work pretty well.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:59:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Orlando beer

I was going to suggest Big Belly Brewery, but it seems it is no 
longer brewing its own beer.  I was down there 2-3 years ago as guest 
of the Sunshine Challenge, and Big Belly brewer Tom Moench was my 
generous host.  Tom is quite an individual.  He was (and may still 
be) a professional stage hand.  A big guy - way over six feet, hefty, 
big voice, outspoken with strong opinions.  I liked him a lot.  He is 
the inventor of the Carbonator Cap and was a frequent HBD contributor 
back in the 90s, and is a sales rep for Hopunion.

Tom showed me around the brewery.  It was a tight little work place, 
but Tom was putting out some fine beers with lots of character. 
Unfortunately, as reviewer Don Russ writes (below), the bar was 
catering to "clueless kids," so his efforts were largely wasted.

One of the two bar rooms had two bars, behind each of which were 
maybe 15-20 of those lemonade machines that recirculate the lemonade 
by spraying it up into a clear plastic cube on top of the machine, 
where it cascades down the inside of the walls.  But they didn't have 
lemonade in them - each one was filled with a different, hideously 
unnaturally colored vodka or rum "shooter" drink.  On tap.  This is 
what Tom, who is an brewing artist, was fighting.

Timothy J. O'Connor of Troy, NY  posted this review of Big Belly on 
Pubcrawler on 03/25/2004:

>Beer Quality - Lousy; Beer Selection - So So; Food N/A; Service - So 
>So - Overall Lousy.
>
>That's some nice brewing equipment sitting there wasting away. I 
>asked the dope (er, gentleman) behind the bar what happened, and he 
>said the brewer wanted too much money to brew.  And your point is . 
>. . ?

Don Russ of Orlando FL posted this review on 02/27/2002:

>Been told by the Central Florida Home Brewers that they are no 
>longer brewing.  The location catered to clueless kids so it's no 
>wonder.

Too bad.

Jeff

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:37:14 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: San Antonio

The usual: I'll be in San Antonio for a conference, and would like to 
meet other homebrewers.  Evenings of  April 19-23 are more-or-less 
open.  (23rd my boss might be there, 21st & 22nd look to have evening 
conference activities.)  Recommendations on brewpubs are also solicited.

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI



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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:41:01 -0600
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Water salts: kettle vs. mashtun

Dear Friends, 

 the exchange over the past couple HBDs, Marc Sedam and 
Jeff Renner both made a distinction between adding salts 
intended to affect water chemistry to the mashtun as opposed 
to the kettle.  Now, I know I've been out of the loop for 
awhile, but... why would anyone want to add the salts to the 
kettle, when it seems pretty obvious that the salts must be 
present along with the compounds in the grain in order to 
have the desired effect?  Given that styles evolved from the 
presence of these compounds in the water before it was 
mixed with the grain during the mash, and not added to the 
wort once it was in the boiler, how would one expect to have 
the desired effect on things from doing so?   

My practice has always been to treat the strike water to the 
desired composition before mixing with the grain at dough-in.  
Presumably this is equivalent to adding the salts to the mash 
tun.  Or am I *really* out of the loop?!?  

Cheers, Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
Yeast are forgiving unless you really insult them.
    ---Dan McConnell






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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 11:24:42 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at jstor.org>
Subject: salts in mash

Hi, Dave.

You wonder why add salts to the mash rather than to the strike water or 
kettle.  As you point out, adding salts to the wort in the kettle will 
definitely have no effect on the mash!  There are, however, salts that 
we add solely for flavor effect, such as sulfates and chlorides.  These 
might as well be added to the kettle because (as far as I know) they're 
not going to affect the mash (unless they're calcium salts).

I think the reason for adding salts that are intended to adjust the pH 
to the mash instead of the strike water is simply that "basic" salts 
(such as "chalk") will dissolve much more easily in the mash than in the 
strike water, because of the mash's lower pH and buffering capacity.

=S



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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:33:21 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: post your location

Brewers

It's time for my semi-annual request that posters tell us their name 
and location.  It fosters community and might help answer questions.

It was this kind of request that led to Rennerian Coordinates about 
seven years ago.  See my "The Definitive History of Rennerian 
Coordinates" at http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4235.html#4235-4

I decided to test the Rennerian Coordinates Calculator at the 
http://HBD.org FAQ page, also accessible directly at 
http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml.

I plugged in the exact opposite coordinates of [0,0] Apparent 
Rennerian (somewhere in the south Indian Ocean, maybe 2000 miles WSW 
of Perth, Australia) and got:

[11798.4, 94.2] Apparent Rennerian

I guess Brian Levetzow, the calculator programmer, just why it 
decided that one points directly opposite another on the globe was 
lies in a bearing of 94.2 degrees, rather than, say, 146.3 degrees, 
of 434.8?  They are all equivalent.  UNLESS the calculator actually 
takes into account the fact that the earth is not exactly spherical 
but is rather slightly pear shaped.  Is it possible that the 
calculator is that sophisticated?

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:36:24 -0700
From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>
Subject: Re: session beer recipe

Tom Meier was inspired by Jeff Renner's post on session beers and brewed 
one himself.  Since he liked his brew so much, I'd ask Tom to post his 
recipe.  I really like this style and am interested in collecting 
recipes.  I too was inspired by Jeff's original post and brewed a beer I'm 
quite fond of.  I know I'm not Jeff, and that Jeff has already responded, 
but I figured I'd post my recipe.

As an aside, a key to serving a good bitter, in my opinion, is low 
carbonation and serving at the right temp.  Too carbonated and too cold 
accentuates the bitterness, while masking the malt and hop character.  I 
keg, so I can readily get the carbonation level I want.  I also just came 
up with a trick (which is probably obvious to most of you) for getting 
essentially the right temp without having access to a temperature 
controlled fridge for my kegs.  I store my kegs in the basement, where the 
temperature is typically in the low 60's.  That's not too high above where 
I want the serving temp to be, but it's still a little warm.  I use a 
Carbonator cap to keep some of my beer in a 2 liter bottle in the 
fridge.  When I want a beer, I fill my glass about 1/4 full with cold stuff 
from the fridge, then top off with the warmer stuff from the keg--just the 
perfect temp.

Now the disclaimers on my recipe.  I know the gravity and alc % of my beer 
are slightly high for a true session beer--it's more of a Special Bitter 
than an Ordinary Bitter.  Next time I brew this I'm going to lower the 
gravity and try and keep the mash temp up (fluctuated between 148-152 
degrees, and I'd like it to stay at the higher end.)  I used Cascade hops, 
which technically doesn't fit a Brittish style, but I like the 
flavor.  Also, maybe a little more flavor and aroma hops than technically 
fits the style, but I'm a hop head, and I think it's still quite well 
balanced.  Note that my Mash tun has a false bottom that occupies 1.25 gal. 
of space, so I use more mash water to make up for this.

BSB--Beck's Special Bitter (the Beck's Beer people might get me for 
trademark infringement, but it IS my name too after all).

Pale malt (american 2-row)      6 lbs
Crystal (40 deg. L)             1 lb
Munich (10 deg. L)              1 lb
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.5 oz (60 min)
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.75 oz (30 min)
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.75 oz (15 min)
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.5 oz (5 min)
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.75 oz (knockout)
Cascade (alpha=7.4%)            0.75 oz (dry)
Irish Moss                      1 tsp. (15 min)
Danstar Nottingham dry yeast    2 pkgs.

Single step infusion with 3.5 gal. water at 152 deg. for 75 min.  Mashout 
at 169 deg.

Spare with 4 gal. of 170 water.  Collect about 6 gal of runoff, and add 
another 0.5 gal. of water to brew kettle.

Boil for 1 hour, chill to mid 70's, collect 5.5 gal. in fermenter.

Primary ferment for 1 week (temp low-to-mid 60's)
Secondary ferment with dry hops for 1 week (temp low-to-mid 60's).

Artificially carbonate in keg.

OG: 1.040
FG:  1.008
ABV:  4.3 %

Mark Beck
Walla Walla, WA



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Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:22:47 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: head retention

Fellow HBD'ers,
My past few batches have suffered from dismal head retention.

I clean my bottles with powdered dish washer detergent at 140 F and rinse 
well...I've read that pdwd can be detrimental to head retention but I will 
change this practice on my next batch.

I also use Ferm-Cap, a surfactant that enables me to boil nearly 7 gallons 
in a 7 gallon kettle and avoid a boilover.  I use approximately 1 drop per 
gallon added at the boil.

I brew ales and typically do a George Fix style 3 step mash schedule with 
the first step at around 95-100F x 30min to degrade beta glucans avoiding a 
stuck mash.

I typically use Great Western pale ale malt.

What factors affect head retention?

Todd in Idaho



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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:37:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Todd K." <toddk63 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Gas temp control

That's how I heat and control my RIM's mash tun.  I
used a burner from an old hot water heater and the
"combination" gas valve from an old gas furnace.  I
converted them to propane by screwing the regulator
all the way down on the gas valve and putting in a new
orifice on the burner drilled with a smaller hole than
the original natural gas one.  The controller is a 339
comparator looking at the voltage from a divider of a
Radio Shack thermistor connected to Vss and a 2.2 KOhm
to GND.   This combination provides a fairly linear
response from 98F to 175F. The thermistor is looking
at the temp at the outlet of the tun (the suction of
the pump).  This provides much better controller and
less overshoot than putting the probe in the middle of
the grain bed.   The other input to the comparator is
a simple voltage divider with an adjustable pot. The
comparator output switches a small transistor that
switches a relay that sends the 24 VAC to the gas
valve solenoid.  The comparator has a 2 MOhm
hysterisis resistor and a 10 pF cap across it to
prevent relay chattering. Pull up resistors should be
no more than 10 KOhm to prevent chattering. The two
input voltages go thru some 348 buffers and op-amps to
change the ~3 to 6V signal (from a Vss=12V) to a
millivolt single that equals degrees F.  This can be
read directly from a digital voltmeter set to 200 mV
range.  Two 15-turn /1K pots are used in the y=mx+b
348 op-amp circuit for calibration of the readout.  I
built a stand alone VOM from a ICL7106 and 3 1/2 digit
LCD for the readout, but a digital VOM will work just
as good.

The controller can also be done with microcontollers
if you prefer the digital software approach.  That's
the project I call BREW 2100!

Now... Want to know what time it is?

Todd K.



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Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:47:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gas temp control

Mike asked:
> Has anyone attempted to control temperatures with a 
> gas-fired system?  I was thinking that it might work

> to pull the valve out of an old gas oven and plumb 
> it into my burner.

Mike, I automated by HERMS HLT burner last year, and
I'm quite happy with it, though I plan to upgrade to a
larger burner.  I used an automatic gas valve and
intermittent pilot (electronic ignition) slavaged from
a forced air furnace.  Got the whole works for $10,
just had to remove it from the furnace at the scrap
yard.  

If you have a high output NG burner, a domestic oven
gas control may not give you the capacity you need. 
Also, the thermostats are not very accurate,
especially at lower temps, though it would probably be
fine for the deep fat fryer.

The setup I went with has more than enough capacity
(200k btu max), but of course it doesn't have an
integral thermostat, like an oven control does.  So I
set mine up with a Ranco control, with the sensor in a
thremowell (closed end 3/8" copper tubing) set through
the keg wall, switching a 24 v AC line to the spark
control.  With a HERMS system it's real nice to be
able to dial in a temp and hold it.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal




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