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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Kudos, Mike's forgotten Mash, Warnemunde (Calvin Perilloux)
  Great Taste Tickets ("Eric R. Theiner")
  Danish Lager?  What did I brew!? ("Pat and Debbie Reddy")
  What happened to my lager. ("MikeW")
  RE:  Anyone Going To Vegas? (Bill Tobler)
  Re: Anyone got some travel tips? (Doug Moyer)
  Brewing with potatoes (Delano DuGarm)
  Bottle lagering (Grant Family)
  RE:  Brewing with potatos (MOREY Dan)
  RE: Brewing with potatos ("Jason Pavento")
  Re: Brewing with Potatoes ("Doug Hurst")


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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 11:32:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Kudos, Mike's forgotten Mash, Warnemunde

Kudos to Pat & co for getting HBD back on!  Whew.  Good times
are here again!  Considering various modern conveniences in my
life during HBD's absence, , I realise that if I were faced with 
the choice of giving up TV, or giving up HBD, (sing along now) 
"I want my, I want my, I want my HBD...".  Thanks, Pat!

Meanwhile, Mike W wonders what's up with his light lager:
  4 lbs. light DME 
  1 lb. flaked corn 
  1 lb. rice solids.
Steeped corn, dissolved rice solids, boiled with extract.  Yikes!
Mike, where's your mash?  The starches in those adjuncts won't
be converted, and so normal brewing yeast won't ferment it.  
You'll probably end up with a hazy, high FG beer that only 
wild yeast will love.  There's your high FG problem.

I personally think pitching at 68/70 F is too high for a lager,
and I've had some problematically fruity lagers even at temps
well below that.  If it's at 70 F when fermentation starts, you
might be looking at half a day or full day of "warm" fermentation 
before your chilling takes effect.  There's your esters (IMO).

By the way, if you're brewing an American Light Lager, which
from the grain bill it appears you are trying, then your hop
quantity seems way too high. No alpha acids are mentioned, 
but as a rough guess I'd say cut it by 40 - 70%.  Seriously.
Especially if the OG is only 1038.

Jason Pavento reports on his "Scandinavian Capitals" cruise:

> docking for about a day each in Berlin (Warnemunde), Germany

Warnemunde?!  So how long do they give you to "visit Berlin"
when you start in Warnemunde?  It's not exactly a taxi ride 
away.  And you are right, Oslo might be a more appropriate 
stop, given the title of the cruise.  Anyway, tell the folks 
in Warnemunde that you'd like, nay demand, to try a Berliner 
Weisse, if it's so close to Berlin.  Hee hee.  Or would it 
be the famed Warnemundenerweisse -- with Woodruff!?

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:43:36 -0500
From: "Eric R. Theiner" <rickdude at tds.net>
Subject: Great Taste Tickets

Beaver Pelt (quite a handle!) wants to know what 
happened with the Great Taste ticket request that 
he put in.

It is with great chagrin that I say that the 
tickets sold out in 20 minutes this year!!  I am 
chagrined because I was one of the guys who sent 
in his money.  Luckily, I have since moved to 
Madison from NC, have joined the MHTG, and managed 
to get one of the very last volunteer slots.

But I realize that not all can take such extreme 
measures...
  
I'd suggest keeping an eye on Ebay.  There's 
already been a sighting of some tickets:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=16122&item=2249381364
&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
  
They'll be dear, but isn't 400+ breweries worth it?
  
Rick
  
P.S.  I have absolutely no affiliation with the 
guys selling Great Taste tickets on Ebay, and 
if I could find one of them,I'd stick a tap handle 
up his nose.
 



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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 15:07:50 -0500
From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at charter.net>
Subject: Danish Lager?  What did I brew!?

I noticed that older BJCP guidelines included a Dutch Pilsner, but that the
current guidelines do not.  I brewed a beer in accordance with the old
guidelines and think its rather good.  I'd like to submit it to a contest
but don't know what category to include it in.  Here are the specifics.  Any
advice/help would be great.  Thanks!

92% pilsner malt
7.7% flaked corn
 .3% crystal 40L

Bittering hops = Tettnanger
Flavor = Hersbrucker

OG =1.049
FG = 1.012
ABV = 5%
IBU = 33
Color = 3 SRM
Yeast = Wyeast 2042, Danish Lager

Pat Reddy
River Bound Brewing
Bridgeton, MO
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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 14:40:19 -0700
From: "MikeW" <mwesty at cableone.net>
Subject: What happened to my lager. 

Thanks to folks replying via private email.  What is now an obvious problem
with procedure is that the corn was not mashed or mini-mashed.  What still has
me stumped is why it worked fine on batch #1? Same ingredients, procedures,
different yeast (White labs German lager). Simply steeped corn, added solids
and extract, and went from OG-1036 to 1006 in ten days versus batch #2 which
bottomed out at 1020.



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Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 16:57:54 -0500
From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE:  Anyone Going To Vegas?

John Palmer asks who's going to Vegas this  year.  I'll be there, and I sure
am looking forward to some of the seminars. Pat said his HBD button source
dried up.  Maybe I'll buy a hat...

Thanks again for all the hard work Pat.  I think Jeff had a great idea in
sending you a few cold one's.  I've got a fresh ESB I'm getting ready to
keg.  

Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2004 17:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone got some travel tips?

Jay asks about beer stops for his "Scandinavian
Capitals" cruise.
 
I don't have any experience to offer except for a bit
in Stockholm. On the main street in Old Town
Stockholm, stop by The Ardbeg Room. Its primary
purpose (beyond being silly trendy) is Scotch whiskey,
but they have the best taps I've found for Swedish
microbrews. It's the only place that I've found
Nynashamns beers. (First "a" should have two dots over
it.) Among their beers is Bedaro ("o" with two dots)
Bitter which is basically a Pacific Northwest pale
ale. With Cascades and Chinook hops! (This was quite
refreshing after the time I've spent drinking beer in
Sweden without noticeble hops...) Ardbeg had a good
assortment of other beers, and I wasted the better
part of an afternoon sampling and reading a novel...
 
Brew on!
Doug Moyer
 
http://hbd.org/starcity
 
 


	
		


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 06:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Delano DuGarm <ddugarm at yahoo.com>
Subject: Brewing with potatoes

Chuck Mryglot writes:
"A couple of months back one of the brewing mags had
an article on brewing with potatos.   I've brewed CAPs
with corn and rice (flakes) and 
am curious about a potato brew.    Has anyone out
there tried this?...any words of wisdom?
Thanks"

Many years ago, when I was more active on HBD and in
brewing with adjuncts, I tried brewing with potatoes,
and decided it wasn't worth the effort. YMMV, of
course.

I rejected using regular potatoes because, since they
are mostly water, it would take too many potatoes to
make them a significant source of fermentables. 
Instead I went to Costco and bought the big box of
potato flakes.  Avoid the butter flavored ones.

I boiled the potato flakes with lots of water in a
cereal mash to be sure of gelatinization.  I'm not
sure that this is necessary, but cannot find a good
reference for the temperature at which potato starch
gelatinizes.  I used the same procedure I use for corn
grits: add 10% of the grain bill, run it up to a
saccharification rest (152 F.), then up to boiling for
15 minutes.  I then added the cereal mash to the main
mash to raise it from a protein rest to the
saccharification rest.

My first mash was, I think, 7 lbs. 6-row and several
(I think 3) lbs. of potato flakes.  This created the
Mother of All Stuck Mashes -- 20 lbs. of malty mashed
potatoes.  This stuff was waterproof.

Later iterations (I had a lot of potato flakes) used
lots and lots of rice hulls to prevent the stuck mash,
and on the 3rd try I produced a reasonable wort. I
lightly hopped the beer (so as not to mask the potato
flavor) and produced a potato cream ale.

Sadly, the finished beer did not have any particular
flavor I would have tagged as "potato."  It was quite
drinkable in a lawnmower beer sort of way, but I could
have made the same beer much more easily with rice
flakes, or I could have used corn and had a much more
enjoyable beer.

I'd say that potato beer was the biggest letdown in my
brewing with adjuncts -- it made the tapioca bitter
seem a success in comparison.

Delano "Adjunct Boy" DuGarm

  

=====
Delano DuGarm
St. Paul, Minn.
ddugarm at yahoo.com


	
		


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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:16:08 +1000
From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au>
Subject: Bottle lagering

Hi all; welcome back, HBD.

Noonan, in Brewing Lager Beer (old version), says that lagering under 
slight pressure is beneficial, but that lagering at anything over X psi 
isn't good. Why?

I ask because I lack a glass fermenter and after oxidation trouble with a 
plastic-lagered Oktoberfest last winter, I am hesitant to do it again. As 
such, I'm probably going to lager in bottles (ie. 3 weeks total in primary, 
with diacetyl rest if necessary, then bottle and store at 3C for as many 
weeks as I can). This is much the same as my anti-2ndry ale procedure, 
except with lagering afterwards.

What differences have people noticed between lagering at normal pressure as 
opposed to lagering in bottles?

TIA
Stuart Grant
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.



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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:38:11 -0500 
From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com>
Subject: RE:  Brewing with potatos

Chuck is inquiring about potatoes:

There was a brief potato thread in August of 2003.  You may want to check
the archive.  Below is a link to one of my post that has three different
potato recipes including a CAPs inspired version.

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4323.html#4323-21

Cheers,

Dan Morey
Club BABBLE  http://hbd.org/babble
[213.1, 271.5] mi



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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 08:55:14 -0700
From: "Jason Pavento" <jpavento at entravision.com>
Subject: RE: Brewing with potatos

CHuckM asks about "Brewing with potatos"
__Isn't there another letter in there somewhere Mr.
Vice-President?__


Hey Chuck, I have brewed a couple of beers with potatoes.
They both turned out very good even considering that they
were two completely different styles, the first was a cream
ale and the last was a dry stout so don't be afraid to try
it. The potato doesn't add much flavor to the beer but it
is fun to tell people what it was made with. Five pounds of
potato yields about the same amount of extract as one pound
of grain on my system. I peeled and cut up the potatoes,
put them in enough H2O to cover and boiled them for about
20 min - although I have read that this is unnecessary. I
then mashed up the potato and combined that with the grain
and H2O to hit my target temp and grain/H2O ratio and
continued as normal. I would suggest using some rice hulls
as I did not on my 2nd batch and the runoff was very slow.


Jay,
Brewin' Rehab Homebrews at 
The Boilover Brauhaus
Walpole MA 02081
http://rehabhomebrew.servebeer.com



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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:07:51 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing with Potatoes


ChuckM asked about brewing with potatoes.  My annual Summer Solstice Potato 
Ale is in the secondary right now.  I personally feel that potatoes are a 
viable substitute for corn or rice and are great for Cream Ale or CAP type 
recipes.  They impart a different (shall we say potatoey) flavor than rice 
or corn, but provide colorless starch in the same manner.  Potatoes are 
mostly water which means you don't get much out per pound.  I've found I get 
somewhere around 6 pts/lb/gal.  My latest recipe used 5lbs of plain old 
Idaho potatoes.  I generally shred them in the food processor and then boil 
in a minimal amount of water until they're just soft to ensure 
gelatinization.  They can be skinned or not.  Not skinning imparts more 
potato flavor.  An interesting variation would be to use yams or sweet 
potatoes for a different flavor.

Here's another reference:
http://www.geocities.com/willboyne/nosurrender/SpudBrew.html



Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian



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