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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  Question about yeast (David Glowacki)
  Re: CO2 and cold ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  HBD BACK/FOY 2004/NHC Las Vegas ("Rob Moline")
  AHA Big Brew Baltic Porter Fermentation (Fred Johnson)
  Need false bottom advice & fast!! ("Pat and Debbie Reddy")
  RE: CO2 and cold ("Ronald La Borde")
  Keeping CO2 tanks cold, losses (Calvin Perilloux)
  RE: Pressure cooker gaskets ("Ronald La Borde")
  Keggerators ("Ronald La Borde")
  pressure cooker gaskets ("dave holt")
  Sort of annual req address reminder thingie... (Pat Babcock)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:35:48 -0400
From: David Glowacki <glowacki at en.com>
Subject: Question about yeast

Hello, All!

I'm finally getting the digest again (Thanks!), and feel like I've 
awakened from a long sleep...
I have a quick question, and hopefully will get a quick answer:
How long is too long to keep yeast (White Labs vials) in the fridge 
before it is too old to use for brewing? I've had some since early April 
 - too long?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Dave Glowacki
Novelty, Ohio

>  
>




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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:09:40 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net>
Subject: Re: CO2 and cold

On Jun 29, 2004, at 22:26, "Steve Arnold" <vmi92 at cox-internet.com> 
wrote in HBD #4552:

> Does anyone keep their CO2 tank in their chest freezer with their 
> kegs? I
> assume that if I did this I would use CO2 faster, but I have a big 
> restaurant
> sized CO2 tank, so would I use it a lot faster, or just a little 
> faster? These
> are, of course, strictly scientific measures.

I can't offer any empirical evidence, since I'm not yet set up for 
carbonating, but my instincts (honed by years of chemistry years ago) 
are telling me that the only thing that will change by putting your CO2 
tank in the freezer is that the pressure in the tank will go down.

Given the ideal gas law ( PV = nRT ), everything else being equal, a 
decrease in temperature leads to a decrease in pressure. Going from 
around room temperature (298 K) to freezing (273 K) is about a 10% 
drop, so I'd guess that the supply-side pressure on your regulator will 
drop about 10% from its room-temperature reading.

Then again, college was a long time ago. I could be missing something 
big.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
Olathe, KS
craig at cottingham.net
OpenPGP key available from:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C



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Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 23:21:35 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: HBD BACK/FOY 2004/NHC Las Vegas

 Folks,
     Great to see the digest back....Ta, Pat!

     Fortnight of Yeast, 2004 will commence in the near future.

     I've been to some great conferences in the past, but NHC Las Vegas was
brilliant! Congrats to Tyce and the local organizing brewers, and to the AHA
staff!
     They just keep getting better!

     The AHA, through such efforts as the NHC continues "Building Better
Beers By Building Better Brewers!"

Cheers!
Gump
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 07:13:53 -0400
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: AHA Big Brew Baltic Porter Fermentation

I post this question late because the Digest was down at the time it 
arose. The AHA Big Brew Baltic porter recipe  states the following as 
the fermentation schedule:

Ferment at 47-52 F for two weeks. Transfer to secondary and ferment at 
57-62 F for four weeks. Lager at 40 F for two months.

I'm consider myself a novice at lagers, but I still find it odd that 
there is late period of four weeks at 57-62 F for this lager. At first 
blush it would appear to be a diacetyl rest, but I think there must be 
more to this.

I brewed this beer not using the recommended White Labs WLP830 German 
Lager or Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager Yeast. Rather I used what I happened 
to have handy, Wyeast 2278. I fermented at 50 F for two weeks after 
which time the gravity had only dropped to about 1.04 from 1.084. I 
racked and raised the temperature to 60 F for four weeks. The gravity 
dropped to 1.023. I racked again and dropped the temperature to 32 F.

I suppose I've learned that 50 F is a little too low for this yeast, 
but I'm more interested in understanding the reason for the 57-62 F 
period for four weeks.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:30:56 -0500
From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at Charter.net>
Subject: Need false bottom advice & fast!!

I bought a false bottom for a 1/2 bbl keg about a year ago and it worked
fine until I did a mash out and the slightly higher temps caused the false
bottom to buckle on me.  It's been a recurring problem and I am looking to
buy a false bottom of a smaller diameter.  The original seems to sit right
above the weld line of the keg and I am looking for one that actually sit on
the curve of the bottom.  I am looking at 2 models right now and wonder if
anyone can offer some feedback.
One is from Hearts Homebrew:
http://www.heartshomebrew.com/home_brew_beer.cgi?cart_id=520080.6004*zt3O_1&
p_id=9210&xm=on&ppinc=dave2full
The other is from BrewTree:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38172&item=4310503412
&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

ANY and ALL advice is welcome - I've got to brew again in 3 weeks and have
no way to mash!

Pat Reddy
River Bound Brewing
St. Louis, MO
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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 10:44:31 -0500
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: CO2 and cold

>From: "Steve Arnold" <vmi92 at cox-internet.com>
>
>Does anyone keep their CO2 tank in their chest freezer with their
kegs?

Some do, some do not, I do not because of two reasons:

  * If you have a slow leak anywhere in your CO2 system including the
keg connectors, etc., you will have a slow leak that can waste a lot
of CO2 over time.

  * I find that I do not need continuous CO2 feed to the keg,
especially after a few pints are drawn off and there now exists a bit
of available space for the CO2 gal to dwell under pressure. I will
serve about six or so pints, then just gas up again, and it's good to
go for a while.

By the way, I got rid of my two chest freezers last year and have
replaced one with a keggerator, and the other one with a wine cooler.
I now have some opinions about both. I plan to do a separate post
about this very soon.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 08:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Keeping CO2 tanks cold, losses

Steve in the last HBD asks:

> Does anyone keep their CO2 tank in their chest freezer [..]
> I assume that if I did this I would use CO2 faster,
> [...] a lot faster, or just a little faster? 

You'll surely lose more CO2 from loose fittings then from
keeping your tank in the chest freezer.  Worry not.

I've done this calculation before, and you are looking at
something like a "loss" of between 0.1% and 0.2% of your
total CO2 usage.  Seriously.  It is amazingly low.  If 
I dig up the calculations, I can post them.

The main thing to consider is that you get CO2 in liquid form,
so you're looking at a couple of hundred "gallons" of CO2
from a 10 lb canister.  The temperature of CO2 during force
carbonation and serving is not relevant; what is used up in
those processes is based on the temperature of the receiving 
tank (the keg and beer), so the position of the CO2 tank 
does not matter until the end.

At end of serving, you are looking at less pressure in the
CO2 tank when it is cold, and at this point, position/temp 
is relevant, so you will have some more left behind at the 
very end; it is this amount that you would "lose".  However, 
it is truly negligible.

Rough seat of the pants calc:  800 litres CO2 total.  You end with
8 litres of CO2 in the tank at 1.5 bar.  So make it 12 litres
at 1 bar.  Per Charles Law, 343 kelvin/373 Kelvin * 12 litres
comes out to a net loss of approx 10% of 12 litres = 1.2 litres,
which is 0.15% of the total.  You'll miss out on two pints!

However, for the true penny pinchers out there, might I suggest
that if saving that tiny amount of CO2 is important, they can
actually "save" even more by putting their CO2 tank on a hot plate!
Doh!  Go for it, Homer!

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 10:50:49 -0500
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Pressure cooker gaskets

Aha, pressure cooker gaskets, a touchy subject with me.
You see I fought the gasket battle and lost. I lost the battle but I
won the war.

I am now the proud owner of an "All American Pressure Canner" which
uses no gasket. Yep, goodbye to the evil gasket. This is the only way
to live, life is too short to fight a loosing war.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 11:08:17 -0500
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: Keggerators

I had chest freezers for a short while, and while they worked, they
were fine. But now the problem - they seem to work for a rather
limited time. I suppose it's because I use them as refrigerators, with
an external thermostat. I have heard that this can be expected. Well,
four years seems like a short lifetime for what they cost.

So there's always the possibility of getting an old refrigerator, and
this is a very good way if you can do this.

But starting the new year I ordered a keggerator from Morebeer, and it
is now happily chugging along in my laundry room. It was not without
problems, however. The thermostat was DOA, and by day two the
temperature was 25 degrees F. At this point I unplugged it and let it
settle down and tried again. Guess what, no cooling, that's right,
kaput. So I am thinking hmm, better call Morebeer. I cannot tell you
how satisfied I was with the service, Morebeer sent me a completely
new replacement and paid for the return of the DOA unit. This is a
first class operation!

Now, on to the keggerator. After using it for half a year, I realize
that it is, well, noisy. It's commercial quality, and is made to hold
and cool a full size beer keg and it does this well. I have a double
faucet tower and can put two corny kegs on tap at the same time. Nice.

Then, strolling through Home Depot, I spotted a wine cooler. I whipped
out my keyring measuring tape and took and wrote down the
measurements. A quick check at home on the cornys, and back to HD with
my truck!

It's great, cheap ($150), and does get the temp down, I was not sure
about the temp, but I can get it down to 35 degrees F. It has a built
in adjustable thermostat, and it is much quieter than the keggerator.
If one was to order a faucet tower from Morebeer, drill a hole in the
top of the wine cooler, one would have a small, quiet, keggerator for
one corny for very little money.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 11:02:49 -0700
From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com>
Subject: pressure cooker gaskets

Try your local Ace Hardware.  I found replacements there here in Arizona.  
If you go to their website, you can search whether they carry your brand or 
not.

Dave Holt
Chandler, AZ




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Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 14:47:31 -0400
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at brew.hbd.org>
Subject: Sort of annual req address reminder thingie...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your well-aged lager...

The following is adapted from HBD#2948 from way back in the glory days
of Feb '99. It's still relevant today, though you can add in thos SPAM
interceptors that I ranted about the other day. Read on...



Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:07:25 -0500 (EST)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Somewhat annual Request server reminders...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

We have named the request server. It is now called the Kompletely
Automatic Response Launcher, or simply: KARL. Be advised that with this
naming, KARL seems to have become sentient and is developing a
personality. 

Using a spam-proofed reply-to address prevents KARL from reaching you
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lines longer than 80 characters - though he tries to fix those
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All in all, KARL seems to be a pretty OK guy. As long as you don't step
on his toes, that is. Keep KARL in mind when dealing with the server.
Following KARL's rules (posted at the top of each and every Digest) can
only make his (and our) existence more pleasant!

Oh, and don't send KARL virus warnings. Most of these are hoaxes, and
KARL really only wants to pass along beer and brewing information. And
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Sometimes he can't tell the difference between a misdirected
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Janitors. So be careful which address you're using when mailing KARL.

Following these simple guidelines will prevent all involved from
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thought a DONKEY, do they? 

KARL thanks you from the bottom of his -um- "Kernal". I suppose PAT
does, too - I mean he would if he had a personality.

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor at hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org   
The Home Brew Page
http://hbd.org/pbabcock/oldsite/brew.html
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."

 


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