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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: I don't hate bottling... Anymore... ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Beer in NYC (Peter Flint)
  Geckos do care ("Graham L Sanders")
  link of the week - ancient Peruvian brewery (Bob Devine)
  Beer in Hershey area (elal)
  re: I don't hate bottling... Anymore... (Michael Owings)
  Plambic... (Michael)
  RE: Bourbon Barrel Solera Ale (Barleywine): ("Raymond T. Gaffield")


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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:35:49 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: I don't hate bottling... Anymore...

On Thursday, 29 July 2004 at 22:42:34 -0500, Bev Blackwood II wrote:
> Dave in Tucson opined:
>
>> Bottling usually entails a lot of screaming, cursing, and fuming.
>
> Dave, Dave, Dave... I too hated the counter-pressure filling... I had
> enough of that after my first effort. I have since gone VERY low tech.
> I bottle straight from the keg using a picnic tap.  Every now and then,
> I end wasting a bit of beer when my keg's a bit too carbonated, but as
> a rule, I get first rate fills!  Any effect on the beer you ask? I
> still win first place ribbons, so I'd say not!  Relax, don't worry and
> use a picnic tap!  (It's literally the low pressure (about 8 psi)
> method to homebrew bottling bliss!)

Hmm.  I'm pretty low-tech too.  Like many people in Australia, I rack
the beer into another (33 litre) fermenter and bulk prime at the same
time.  I then use a bottling valve on the end of a 30 cm polypropylene
tube stuck into the tape of the fermenter.  It that's both interesting
and unclear enough, I can put up a photo on a web site.  

That all works pretty well.  My main objection to bottling, and what
takes up most of the time, is the rest of the work: cleaning the
bottles, capping them and putting them away.  I really can't see any
good way round that.

Greg
- --
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 00:11:18 -0400
From: Peter Flint <peterflint at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Beer in NYC

> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:42:56 -0700
> From: Dean <dean at deanandadie.net>
> Subject: Beer in NYC?
>
> Been looking around the archives a little, but didn't come up with an 
> answer
> to the question: Is there a good place to get beer in New York City?
>
> I'll be in the big apple for a few days next week and would like to 
> find a pub
> or two with good brews.


Despite it's lack of microbreweries, NYC is actually a pretty decent 
place to find a variety of good beer these days.  Here are a few of my 
favorites in no particular order.

The beer garden scene seems to be making a comeback here right now.

Bohemian Hall:
Worth a trip to Queens is Bohemian Hall, the only surviving outdoor 
beer garden from decades back.  Large outdoor space with trees and 
picnic tables, Czech beer on tap in generous mugs, excellent Czech and 
eastern European food.  Casual atmosphere.  What's not to like?
Directions: Subway # N to Astoria Blvd. (one stop before the last - 
Ditmars Blvd.). Walk 1 block to the intersection of 24th Avenue and 
31st Street. Located between 29th Street and 31st Street.

Zum Schneider - A relatively recent German indoor beer garden and 
restaurant.  Great selection of German beers, good food.  Can get 
crowded with a hip crowd these days.  107 Ave C  at  7th Street, New York, 
NY 10009  East Village

Loreley - A very new German restaurant with outdoor garden in the back. 
  Not spacious outside, but a nice atmosphere as well and  good beer 
selection and Germanic food.  Not too crowded yet.   7 Rivington Street 
on the Lower East Side.

All of the above focus heavily on the Germanic/Central European 
tradition.

Blind Tiger Ale House
For the microbrew scene, check out the Blind Tiger Ale House on Hudson 
Street in the West Village.  Great selection of beers, no food to speak 
of.  Can get very crowded and noisy.  518 Hudson Street at W. 10th 
Street

Spotted Pig
Haven't been here yet but supposed to have good food and English cask 
conditioned ales on tap.  Seems to be attracting quite a hip crowd at 
the moment.  Since it's pretty small go early or late to avoid a wait.  
314 W. 11th Street.

The Other Room
Tiny tiny little wine and beer bar.  No food but interesting selection 
of Belgian and microbrews on tap.  It's a sophisticated hangout with 
velvet banquettes.  I think it's on Perry Street near Washington Street 
in the West Village.

And of course you can check out NY's own Brooklyn Brewery.  Never been 
out there myself, but they have decent beers.  Friday night happy hours 
at the brewery and brewery tours on Saturday.   Visit their website at 
www.brooklynbrewery.com for details.

And finally, if you're looking to buy beer to take out, drop in on 
Hercules at the Fancy Grocery the corner of 7th Avenue and Bedford 
Street.  It looks like a normal deli/bodega from the outside, but he's 
got quite a decent selection of beers for sale, all fresh and carefully 
handled, unlike the brews in a lot of the delis around town.  Plus 
Hercules is a character worth meeting.

Happy drinking!

Peter
NYC



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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:37:19 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com>
Subject: Geckos do care

G'Day All

I have been out of action a while, but I am getting on top of things. Pat
continues to tease me with the on again, off again, two times a posting HBD.
One could certainly tease the fellow back and tell him that so far I have
received, none, then one, three, two, none again, and back to one digest
over the last few days. But as he lifts himself off the floor, I say relax
mate, just having fun at your expense. (yes I am a mongrel!!!!!!!)

Young Dave Burley may think I am writing from the grave >>>>>Our nearly
ephermeral Ozzie, Graham Sanders,  ( You are still on this mortal coil and
not using a ghost writer I presume)<<<<<

And who knows if that aint the truth. When one lives in utopia of North
Queensland, with all tourists currently too afraid to travel incase
some-ones talcum powder gets loose, well, we are in paradise and it does
seem we are in a world of our own. And with the USA releasing a film on how
we get rid of yanks on the Great Barrier Reef, we should be left alone for
some time to come.

Though I have to thank Daves idea on my whiplash >>>>>> What worked for me
was going in desperation to a Chiropractor. ....I was so bunged up, the
Chiropractor had to body block me against the wall buthe popped the two
out-of-place vertebrae ....I now understand that medical doctors can fix
chemical problems and
chiropractors can fix mechanical ones. Find a good one and give it a
try.<<<<<

Thanks mate. thats all I need, to be all fixed up and then HAVE to go to bed
with SWMBO. You must really get your kicks out of seeing some poor fellow
having to go thru hell (both with the chiropractor and SWMBO).

But you did ask
>>>>>>so I wonder if your gekko ale will benefit from a better
mouthfeel?<<<<< Now my ALT(ered) Gecko Beer is lagering away in the fridge,
it seems that the ghost  of said gecko still haunts the lagering fridge. Got
up the other night to escape the bedroom, and going past said fridge, there
were a number of gecko's all over it. It was very un-nerving, as you could
almost here "Eric!!!!!!, ERIC!!!!!!, I feel your here somewhere mate, I 'll
wait here til you show." Guess I have to spray the little bastards with some
ALT(ered) beer to keep them happy.

I found this posting interesting from Keith
>>>>>>>>I recently brewed a batch of pseudo Flanders Red with the Wyeast
Roselaere. It seemed to
have an off-flavor (which was not lacto) and so I dumped it and did another.
Same result......I have used the Roselaere before to good effect, but not
only did these batches seem to be infected, they also seemed to have little
sourness.<<<<<<<

I have just kegged a Grand Cru clone. Very happy with the results. I
personally dont like those yeast blends with all the bugs - normal yeast,
Brett, Bacteria and other growths from old shorts - that they sell. With so
many bugs, it makes it impossible to get reproducible reliable batches. Not
only are you at the mercy of the yeast manufacturer on what "their blend"
should be, but age plays a critical factor in percentages of surviving
organisms in the packet. Any wonder you some dont turn out right, ie too
little sourness.

In my Grand Cru I had five separate ferments going, for the 5 different
bugs. By fermenting different volumes for different time lengths, I was able
to copy the flavours of my sour beers, from Lambics to Flanders Reds. Some
are pitched into the main wort, others pasteurised and pitched. This is
especially so with the souring bacteria. By using a strong "sour cream"
culture from a tub at the supermarket, I was able to get a good clean
sourness, and more importantly, a controlled sourness, that I stopped when I
thought it was ready, and more importantly, at a level I liked.

I even cover this with an interview I did with David Logsdon from Wyeast on
my radio Program.

Now i'm off to swat a few geckos off the lager fridge. Salties and Tiapans
are bad enough - but possessed geckos are a little over the top, even for
me.

Shout
Graham Sanders

Oh
You wonder where all this crap on security is going to stop. Went to the
airport to pick up a friend. Well like all things today, we go thru the
metal detector. One old lady was there, had to be in the 80's, on here first
flight to see her great great grand child. And yes she sets it off. They
make her take off her shoes, earrings, and even forced off a  wedding ring
with oil (which upset her to no end). She still sets off the alarm. Suddenly
releases its her metal hip setting it off. End result, she wasn't allowed on
the plane as she didn't have a letter from a doctor saying she had a metal
hip. They send her away a depressed, crying mass. And yes, she did read the
conditions on the ticket, - no mention of metal "in the body" at all. She
did nothing wrong at all.


Honestly think we were safer with the threat, than the consequences.



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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:38:52 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - ancient Peruvian brewery

Evidence of brewing from over a 1000 years ago was found
from Peru.  Before the Incas, the Wari people were making
"chicha" from local fruits and a peppery seeds.

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3414

Watch all 3 videos at:
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/expeditions/ryan_expedition/videoreports.html

Bob Devine


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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:04:19 -0300
From: elal at isn.net
Subject: Beer in Hershey area

We are travelling down I-81 to the Hershey area and wonder if anyone has a 
recommendation for a good distributor to bring back a few cases.  I understand 
that the system there is based largely on buying 24 at a time so helpful hints 
would be greatly appreciated.
- -- 
Alan
www.genx40.com





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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:28:28 -0500
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: re: I don't hate bottling... Anymore...

In HBD 4569, Bev wrote:
 > Dave in Tucson opined:
 >> Bottling usually entails a lot of screaming, cursing, and fuming.

 > Dave, Dave, Dave... I too hated the counter-pressure filling... I had
 > enough of that after my first effort. I have since gone VERY low tech.
 > I bottle straight from the keg using a picnic tap.  Every now and
 > then, I end wasting a bit of beer when my keg's a bit too carbonated, 
 > but as a rule, I get first rate fills!  Any effect on the beer you
 > ask? I still win first place ribbons, so I'd say not!
 > Relax, don't worry and use a picnic tap!  (It's literally
 > the low pressure (about 8 psi) method to homebrew
 > bottling bliss!)

I'll second Bev's opinion -- I have a CP, but don't use it anymore. 
Instead, I just jam a bit of 3/8 ID tubing on the end of a picnic tap 
and fill the bottle using just enough pressure to make the beer flow.

I WILL generally flood the bottle with CO2 before filling, and I find 
that if the bottles are well-chilled, there is significantly less 
foaming. I use a steep-sided plastic tray to contain any mess (and there 
always is a little mess, but not very much). I try to always cap the 
bottle on foam and use the oxygen absorber caps.

Like Bev, I've noticed no change in the bottled product, either 
personally or in competition judging.

Hope that helps -- m
- -- 
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 15:21:07 -0500
From: Michael <grice at binc.net>
Subject: Plambic...

Dave Reidel asks about the possibility of fermenting a plambic on the
slurry from the last batch.

I suspect yes. I would expect the pedio and the brett to have survived,
and there's probably enough ale yeast to ferment the wort. Make sure to
taste the old batch.  However, brewing a plambic is definitely more of
an art than a science.

Personally, I'd use the slurry with new batch. But I'd supplement it
with new lambic bugs. Why? First, not all of the bugs of interest may
be viable. A new lambic culture would be nice insurance. Second, you
can supplement the existing bugs with different species/varieties. The
dregs of a few bottles of old lambics may add desirable new species.
In fact, this is more or less what I was planning to do with my next set
of batches (once I bottle the batches I have aging).

Finally, have you checked out the plambic mailing list? Traffic is a
bit low at the moment and I think most of the subscribers are here, too,
but you can find it at:

https://secure.neap.net/mailman/listinfo/plambic

Michael
Middleton WI


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Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 17:32:11 +0200
From: "Raymond T. Gaffield" <raygaffield at mac.com>
Subject: RE: Bourbon Barrel Solera Ale (Barleywine):

Hi Steve,

Very exciting posting about doing a Solera brew ! I wanted to comment 
on one aspect of my experience with doing a Solera brew.

Last year, after reading Jeff Renner's article, I made a barley wine to 
start my Solara. Since I was not kegging it but rather putting in a 
glass carboy, I noticed after some time that the airlock would go flat. 
At that point I would add another gallon or so from a new batch to get 
it started again but in the process, I wrote Jeff directly for advice. 
Jeff cautioned that my Solera was vulnerable to oxidation in its 
present state.

I had a lot of fun with that Solera brew. I extracted one gallon 
batches several times, which I sometimes bottled or used for the odd 
experiment like fermenting with cherries. It became my homebrewing 
sandbox. In the end, I finally bottled the remaining batch since it was 
sitting mostly lifeless in the carboy. I have to say though the final 
bottling suffered from oxidation.

So even though I continue to enjoy the complexity of that last batch - 
it is a barley wine after all, I have to say, I can taste the 
oxidation. So  I noticed in your article that it seems you were 
planning to leave this Solera in a barrel, I thought I must caution 
that unless you provide some mechanism for keeping the oxygen off the 
beer, you will most likely experience the same thing or is it possible 
that the surface to volume ration will mitigate that ?

Anyway, good luck and I'd love to taste a bottle of it. I love barley 
wines and I love the idea of mixing and aging different batches of 
homebrew.

Cheers,
RAY



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