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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Any spam gets HBD treated as all spam (Bob Ellis)
  Pouring after fermentation (Leo Vitt)
  RE: Racking off of floating fruit (Anthony Taylor)
  Therminator (Braam Greyling)
  RE: Cutting the top off of kegs ("Jack Evans")
  Cutting the top off of kegs (K.M.)" <kmuell18@visteon.com>
  Reply>Cutting the top off of kegs (Doug Moyer) ("Rich Zurek")
  Re: Cutting tops off kegs ("William Benz Jr")
  Re: Cutting the top off of kegs ("Rogers, Mike")
  RE: Cutting the top off of kegs ("Scott Vliek")
  Re: glueing a corny rubber rim (Ken Meyer)
  Liability insurance for homebrew clubs? (Paul Shick)
  Racking off of floating fruit ("Eric R. Lande")
  Keg conversion ("Dave Draper")
  de-Sanke-ing Sanke kegs ("Jay Spies")
  Re: glueing a corny rubber rim ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Re: Cutting the top off of Kegs ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Re; Drying green hops ("Dave and Joan King")


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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:43:08 -0700
From: Bob Ellis <ellisb at teleport.com>
Subject: Any spam gets HBD treated as all spam

Good luck with the spam filter, Pat.  It's needed because the Aug. 12 
and 13 issues
wound up in Earthlink's "Known Spam" pile.  Fortunately, I was able to 
retrieve them
by  scanning through 162 others that had been shunted aside in recent 
days.  That
also happened a few weeks ago.  Now I become suspicious when I don't receive
my daily dose of enlightenment.

Bob Ellis
Vancouver, WA




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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:44:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pouring after fermentation


The question was asked about pouring beer out of the fermenter after
fermentation due to the fruit in the beer.  I think that will result in
an oxidized beer.

I have heard of a few different approaches to deal with fruit with a
rcking cane.  A wine making friend of mine needs to do that often after
fermenting red grapes.  He made a 2 inch wide tube from PVC,  It is
screened for the bottom foot of length.  He inserts the racking cane
inside this tube.  The 2 inch wide screened area at the bottom keeps
fruit peices out and allows liquid to flow in.  It is a very coarse
screen.

I have heard of people using sanitized (and new) scrub pads as filters
on the end of the racking cane.  I have not witnessed this.

I have racked, holding the racking cane up from the bottom, lowing as
necessary.  Evenually it will plug.  I unplug it by forcing air back
through the tube.  I suppose CO2 would be an improvement over that.
After restart the syphon about 3 times, the amount of remaining liquid
is small.  Yes, some sediment gets transferred.  The next racking will
get that out.  

Dry hopping with whole hops is similiar when not in a hop bag.



=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE


		


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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:26:00 -0800
From: Anthony Taylor <tony at paperdove.org>
Subject: RE: Racking off of floating fruit

> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 21:22:28 -0600
> From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
> Subject: Racking off of floating fruit
> 
> I am making my first fruit beer, charging along with limited knowledge but
> lots of trust that all is well.  I pasturized ten pounds of choke cherries
> (for a 6 gallon recipe) in the wort, and they went directly into a 7 gallon
> plastic bucket closed fermenter along with 3.5 oz. of leaf hops, the wort,
> and the yeast.  I did not bag the hops or fruit.  I imagine that with the
> floating choke cherries (they have a large pit in the middle) and all of
> those hops in the mix that I am likely to experience a plugged racking tube
> when trying to rack the beer into the secondary from in between the sediment
> and what is floating.  I was thinking that maybe some folks pour off the
> beer down to the sediment, through a sanitized mash tun or a pillow case,
> rather than racking.  I realize that could so easily infect the beer.  I
> found little help in the HBD archives.  My hunch is to relax, rack off the
> beer in the middle and get on with it, but I'm open to the voice of
> experience.  Thanks.
> 
> gettin' pithy,
> Steve Smith


Hey, Steve.  Funny you should mention this right now.

A couple of weekends ago, I racked a batch with quite a bit of dry hop. 
  The last batch I did, I tried to rack from the middle, but ended up 
with a plugged line.  With all the regular and frequent unplugging of 
the line, I ended up with my first batch of sour beer, ever, in 8 years 
of brewing.

This time, I went down to the hardware store and picked up a screen door 
repair kit, with 2" metal mesh sqaures.  I pulled the corners together, 
making a bulb, which I boiled, tied around the end of the siphon hose, 
and sanitized with iodine (rinsed with boiling water).  The siphon went 
better than expected; all that was left was a bunch of soaked hops, 
sediment, and about a cup of beer above the sediment.

I just tonight tapped the keg, and it turned out perfectly.

I suspect the same technique will work with the fruit skins, as well.

I don't have a lot of experience-- this was only my second dry-hopping. 
  But, this technique seems to work very well, so far.

				- Tony


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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:57:49 +0200
From: Braam Greyling <braam.greyling at azoteq.com>
Subject: Therminator

 
 
Hi all,

Was wondering if anyone has tried out the new plate 
chiller from Northernbrewer. 

Look at :
http://www.northernbrewer.com/chilling-etc.html   
 
go to Therminator in middle of page. 


I live in a particularly hot climate and neither 
counterflow or immersion chiller work good enough.
I have built numerous different chillers but I can 
still only brew in winter. 

Do you think this will help ? Any comments ? 
My biggest problem is that the water temperature is 
too high during summer. 
 
Regards
Braam


 




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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:57:51 -0400
From: "Jack Evans" <jack at evanscs.com>
Subject: RE: Cutting the top off of kegs

Doug,

I have used a cutting torch, a sawzall, and a cut-off wheel on an angle
grinder.  The torch made a big mess, and required a lot of grinding. The
sawzall took forever - not a fun task. I used several blades to produce a
jagged, rough cut which also required a lot of grinding. Without a doubt,
the cut-off wheel was faster, cleaner, safer, and MUCH easier.

Good luck,
Jack Evans




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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 07:04:28 -0400
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: Cutting the top off of kegs

Doug,
I've had a friend cut the top out of some of my kegs with a plasma torch.
Very quick.  Grind the edges and chip out the slag and your done.  I've also
cut the top out of one using my dremel, lots of time, and lots of the cheap
cut off wheels.  

If you've got the time to invest, the dremel is the way to go.  Super clean
cut.  Didn't stray from my line at all, so I've got a perfect circle
(pre-scribed with a home-made compass).  No slag stuck to the inside of the
keg.  The noise wasn't too bad, although I did wrap the keg in a blanket,
and put a towel on the top where I wasn't cutting (along with wearing ear
plugs!)  Do where ear plugs!

I think I did it over the course of 3 days and used about 12 of the little
cut-off wheels for my dremel.  I'll do the same thing next time I cut a keg.

Kevin
Canton, MI


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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:52:08 -0500
From: "Rich Zurek" <zurekbrau at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Reply>Cutting the top off of kegs (Doug Moyer)

There is a third way to cut the top off a keg.  That is to use a
grinder. It works just as fast as the other methods.  You will probably
need to use the grinder on our keg to smooth out the edges.

Rich Zurek
Carpentersville IL USA



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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:00:26 -0400
From: "William Benz Jr" <wbenzjr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting tops off kegs


When I cut kegs I use a sawzall with a tweaked blade.  I bend it slightly,
down the middle lengthwise, by putting it in a vise teeth side up.  First
decide which way to bend it.  I'm right handed so I like to cut counter
clockwise. I put a block of wood against the blade and then hit it with a
hammer.  It doesn't take a lot of bend.  Trial and error will get the right
amount.  If you bend too far, just flatten it out a little.  I use 1/4"
holes (4 or 5 ) in a row to start the cut.  Use plenty of oil.  I use
cooking oil.  I also suggest scribing your line for the cut.  Pencil or
marker might wash away.  Hope this helps.

Bill Benz

welder, brewer, mr. mom



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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:03:22 -0400
From: "Rogers, Mike" <mike.rogers at eds.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting the top off of kegs

<<Doug is questioning --  For those who have tried both, which is easier:
reciprocating saw (i.e., Sawzall) or rotary cutter (i.e., Dremel)? >>

I used a Sawzall and my neighbor and fellow brew club member used a Dremel.
Both worked well enough to get the job done.  I went through 2-3 blades, and
I know he went through at least 3+.  The target diameter was not a problem
for me.  I just cut as close to the edge as possible and all worked well.  I
can email pics if interested.  I wish I would have known at the time that my
father-in-law had a good torch set capable of the job.

Mike Rogers
Cass River Homebrewers
Frankenmuth, Mi.
www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers <www.hbd.org/cassriverhomebrewers> 




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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:11:22 -0500
From: "Scott Vliek" <greywarrior at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Cutting the top off of kegs

I had very good results using an 4 1/2" angle grinder.  I marked the hole
diameter
(12" to match the lid of a lid I already had) using a string looped around
the kegs
tap hole and a marker pen.

Instead of trying to cut all the way through in one pass I made several
circuits
around the keg cutting a little deeper each time.  I also near filled the
keg with water
first, both to hold it steady and also to quench any sparks coming from the
grinder.

Don't forget eye protection!

Good luck.

Scott Vliek
greywarrior at hotmail.com

> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:50:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Doug Moyer <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Cutting the top off of kegs
>
> For those who have tried both, which is easier:
> reciprocating saw (i.e., Sawzall) or rotary cutter
> (i.e., Dremel)?
>
> Both seem to have a problem with the width of the
> cutting edge not matching the target diameter. How do
> you overcome that?


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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:16:42 -0500
From: Ken Meyer <keno5 at wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: glueing a corny rubber rim

Folks,

The top rubber handle/rim came off one of my corny kegs.
Any tried-and-true glues that will hold it there again?
I'm thinking the new PL700 construction adhesive.

cheers,
 -Alan

I had a similar problem with the bottom of a keg and I used Polyurethane
caulk like Vulcum.  It has good adhesive qualities and stays flexible
for years.  I don't know if it will work as well for the top of a keg
because of all the strain put on while lifting by the handle.  Maybe a
product like gorilla glue would work but it is a tough call.
Ken




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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:32:22 -0400
From: Paul Shick <shick at jcu.edu>
Subject: Liability insurance for homebrew clubs?


Hi all,

   Our local homebrew club, the Society of
Northeast Ohio Brewers (SNOBs), is having a
problem with our annual Oktoberfest.  Our
usual host is having worries about liability,
given that large numbers of people will be
consuming large amounts of food and beer on
his farm.  We're looking into purchasing a
rider on his homeowner's insurance to cover
this, and it appears that we've got this
problem under control.  However, because
of this,  our current club officers
have now expressed concerns about _their_
liability for problems that arise out of other
club events.   (Speaking on behalf of past
club officers, crossing your fingers and
hoping no one has an accident on the way home
from a meeting is pretty overrated!)

   Over the years, this topic has surfaced
sporadically on the HBD.  As I recall, the
AHA Clubs Committee pursued this about 8 or
10 years ago, but nothing came of it.  Some
clubs have looked into not-for-profit status,
partly to reduce their desirability as a
lawsuit target, although this seems pretty
optimistic to me.  Have any clubs in HBDland
gotten liability insurance?  Can you tell me
about the costs, etc.?  Thanks in advance
for any help you can provide.

                      Paul Shick
                      Cleveland Hts., OH





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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:05:25 -0400
From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com>
Subject: Racking off of floating fruit

In HBD #4582	Steve Smith says:  I imagine that with the
floating choke cherries (they have a large pit in the middle) and all of
those hops in the mix that I am likely to experience a plugged racking
tube
when trying to rack the beer into the secondary from in between the
sediment
and what is floating.


When I read you post, Steve, I immediately thought of those funny coffee
pots where you brew the coffee in the pot with out a filter then press
the plunger down to trap the grounds in the bottom and pour off clear (as
it were) coffee.  You could use your false bottom from your mash tun in
the same way.  If you aren't familiar with it, and therefore don't have
one, a false bottom is perforated disk for keeping the grist in place
while the wort runs off.  This is often a piece of stainless or plastic
with lots of small holes that acts like a strainer.  Anything that lets
liquid through and keeps solids out would work.  Come to think of it, if
your pasta collender fits into your fermenting bucket, use it (don't
forget to sanitize it).  Just push it gently to the bottom of the bucket
and rack out of the middle.  That should keep all the big stuff out. 
Happy brewing.


Eric Lande
Doylestown, PA



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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:19:25 -0600
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Keg conversion

Dear Friends,

In #4582, Doug Moyer asks about cutting the tops off kegs for 
conversion to mash tuns and kettles.

Doug, have a look at Eric Schoville's fine beer page:

http://www.schoville.com/brewing.php

and check his section on keg conversions.  I use a keg that Eric 
converted for me many years ago when we both lived in Dallas and 
it's worked like a charm for years.  His page also includes many links 
to other info sources.

Cheers,

Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html




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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:21:47 -0400
From: "Jay Spies" <jayspies at citywidehomeloans.com>
Subject: de-Sanke-ing Sanke kegs

Doug moyer queries thusly:

>>>I'm ready to impart upon that age old homebrewer rite of passage: cutting
the tops off of a couple of kegs for a mash tun and boil kettle<<<

Personally, I find the most effective method of cutting just about any piece
of metal is an angle grinder with an abrasive cutoff wheel.  It'll go
through almost anything metal, and as an added bonus the blade guard allows
you to rest the tool on the keg handle rim so you can follow the line you
traced.  Hopefully you trace a line before you cut!  ;)

Jay Spies
Head Mashtun Scraper
Asinine Aleworks
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: glueing a corny rubber rim

Alan, 

Liquid Nails... They make one specifically for metal and rubber. 

I have used it several times and it has worked very well... 

C'ya!

 -Scott

=====
"Dad... Parents can't have fun..."
 - Heather Braker

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club



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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting the top off of Kegs

Doug writes about keg cutting... 

First I would check out you local welding shop and see if they will do it for
free, beer or $20. 

If that falls through I would look for a hand held angle grinder. I would also
check out a page that I put together a while back. It is a method I have used
on at least 100 kegs with no problem. 

Enjoy... 

Skotrats El Cheapo Po Mans Keg Conversion 101 -
http://www.brewrats.org/keg101.html

Hope this helps

C'ya!

 -Scott

=====
"Dad... Parents can't have fun..."
 - Heather Braker

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club


		


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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:01:07 -0400
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re; Drying green hops

Craig asked about drying hops.  Sorry, I'm in upstate NY (Binghamton), a bit
far to physically collaborate.  I grow my own, and dry them simply by
suspending them up in my garage rafters on screens.  I just put strings on
each corner, tie them together in the middle, put a small hook-eye bolt in
the underside of the roof, and hoist them up.

Spreading them out, no more than one deep, works great.  2 summer days is
plenty to get a load dried right out.  I've harvested about 30 oz, dried,
from my few vines.

        Dave King (BIER)




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