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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Harvest time? (David Glowacki)
  Re: ATC Refractometer from Northern Brewer ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Is is possible to keg beer from a can??? ("Brendan Oldham")
  Re: Candi Sugar (Adam Reynolds)
  Viscosity of beer ("Dave Draper")
  Latest Radio Program/Candi Sugar ("Graham L Sanders")
  High Altitude Hop Cultivation (Dan Fink)
  Re: Sanke Spears and British Caramel Taste (tony)


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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 22:24:45 -0400
From: David Glowacki <glowacki at en.com>
Subject: Harvest time?

Hello, All!

Despite the cool and wet summer here in the Cleveland area, I have a hop 
plant that has managed to squeeze out 20-24 blossoms. This is the first 
year it has produced anything other than leaves, and I was wondering 
when I should be harvesting...how do you know when they are "done"?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Dave Glowacki
Novelty, Ohio






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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:26:27 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: ATC Refractometer from Northern Brewer

[Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html]

Empty lines removed.

On Thursday,  9 September 2004 at 10:28:04 -0500, Rob Dewhirst wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:37:12 -0400, Charles Boyer wrote:
>> Rather than using a friend's refractometer, I would suggest using a
>> hydrometer instead, to see if specific gravity reading from it matches
>> the specific gravity calculated from the Brix reading on your
>> hydrometer.
>
> A couple of people suggested this.  When I am relying on my
> refractometer, I generally don't have enough liquid for a hydro sample.
> I took some readings last night and compared them with my hydrometer and
> the refractometer is comparable -- THIS time.  In the past it has not
> been.

A good start, I suppose.

>> From: Christopher Farley <chris at northernbrewer.com>

>> After calibrating at a non-zero point, try distilled water again
>> and make sure that reads zero. If it doesn't, then something is
>> definitely wrong with the instrument and you should return it for a
>> replacement.  We have sold hundreds of these instruments, and have
>> found very few (<<1%) defective units. If you suspect the unit is
>> faulty and don't want to go through the bother of testing it, just
>> ship it back and we can test it for you.
>

> I don't think the unit is defective.  I think there is something
> systematically wrong with either my calibration method, my sampling,
> or reading.  I was hoping there might be something unique about this
> unit that someone else figured out that would help me determine the
> problem.

I've been scratching my head about this.  I find that refractometers
are much easier to handle than hydrometers (which tend to stick to the
side of the tube, and which in my experience have far too short a
scale).  I really can't think what mistake you could have made with
the refractometer.  Are you sure that your friend's refractometer is
also calibrated in Brix?

Greg
- --
When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the
original text.  
For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:29:59 +0000
From: "Brendan Oldham" <brendan_oldham at hotmail.com>
Subject: Is is possible to keg beer from a can???

It's like Christmas! I've got access to an unlimited amount of a fine Pale 
Ale (well, not unlimited, but virtually - 3,500 cans). The catch is that it 
is in 12 ounce cans and I need to return the cans by the end of September 
(I'll explain later).
I a considering kegging a bunch. Will this work??? Please help me save the 
beer!
Obviously, I'll try to minimize oxidation, but I'm not sure the best way of 
accomplishing this. Thanks in advance for any help!
P.S. I have the beer because a friend has entered a contest that involves 
the purchase of 150 cases of this stuff. Sounds crazy to me, but I picked up 
10 cases last night...it's for real!



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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:28:59 -0600
From: Adam Reynolds <safrax at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Candi Sugar

In response to Denny Conn's question about candi sugar:

The March-April 2004 issue of "Brew You Own" magazine has an article
entitled "Sweetness: Brewing Sugars and How to Use Them" by John
Palmer. In the article he states that:

    Belgian candi sugar is sucrose that
    has been caramelized to some degree,
    depending on the color. Dark candi
    sugar will have more of a caramel
    taste than the amber variety. Aside
    from the caramel notes, it will
    behave exactly like table sugar.

He goes on to say that Lyles Golden Syrup, as well as Molasses and
Treacle contain invert sugars. An accompanying table listing various
sugars and their properties shows that candi sugar consists of
sucrose, whereas the invert sugars are glucose and fructose due to the
inversion process.

Hope that answers your question,
Adam Reynolds



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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:30:49 -0600
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Viscosity of beer

Dear Friends,

A colleague of mine is working on a project modeling the physical-
chemical properties of hydrous fluids.  As part of this, he's looking for 
data on the viscosity of standard American beer, such as Budweiser.  
No, I am NOT making this up!  He's on the faculty of the Dept. of 
Geological Sciences at U Michigan in Ann Arbor.  His name is Youxue 
(pronounced "YO-sha") Zhang, and can be reached via email at 
youxue at umich dot edu.  Just send to him directly.  Here's his own 
words:

"I am looking for actual viscosity values (mPa s) of Budweiser beer.  
The measurement can be done either at a few bars of pressure so 
that there would be no bubbling, or do it at normal 1 atm pressure 
after bubbles are gone. I am trying to model a data set.  When I 
assumed the viscosity of Budweiser beer is identical as that of water, 
there is a small discrepancy.  Hence I would appreciate it if you could 
post a request to your beer group."

[So, perhaps Bud isn't *quite* water after all...!]

Any of you who may be able to help out, don't feel like you have to 
dumb it down for a geologist-- this fellow was the second best math 
student in all of mainland China the year he graduated from college, 
and THAT is saying something.

Many thanks,

Dave in ABQ

  
David S. Draper, david at draper.name
Institute of Meteoritics, 1 Univ New Mexico, 
MSC03-2050, Albuquerque, NM 87131
http://epswww.unm.edu/iom
Lab: http://epswww.unm.edu/highp
Homepage: http://www.unm.edu/~draper
Commercial email unwelcome.



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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:39:48 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <craftbrewer at bigpond.com>
Subject: Latest Radio Program/Candi Sugar

G'Day All

Well the last of the cold has passed us by in the tropics. Temperatures are 
starting to rise from the freezing 16C minimums we have been experiencing 
the last few days. Now with the warm weather now all but here, my brewing, 
more importantly my drinking, now changes to lighter beers. Pilsners first, 
Then my Heaven Heffe, My Kinda Kolsch, and of course The Famed Tropical 
Flower Wit.

Its interesting that thru all this I have to continue to get the radio 
program up on the net. More than a few people give me e-mail hell if it 
doesn't go up. Seems there are a few craftbrewers out there that dont mind 
listening to a lot of mad NQLDers ramble on. There's a little group in the 
ol USA who get together and have a session with me, as well as a couple of 
groups in England. You sods must have rocks in your head, or strong beers.

But by far most listen to the program doing one activity >>>>>>>>From: 
RoadGlyn ....I sat down Thursday night with almost 20 gallons to bottle. 
Turned on the Craftbrewer Show and had a wonderful time. 
http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/index.shtml#Sound

Yes it seems that most people put on the show when they bottle. I suppose 
they need some light entertainment that is beer related as they go about 
this awful boring job. So for all you poor listeners the latest Radio 
program is up on the net to listen to. Do enjoy, and as always, give me 
feedback.


Denny continues to ask on Candi sugar >>>>>>>I have looked and looked and 
still can't find any references to candi sugar being either inverted or 
carmelized.<<<<<< A lot of this depends strongly where and what you read. 
What is clear just by tasting the stuff it aint "just plain ol sugar". 
Whether you call it lollies, sweets, candy, whatever, the taste alone tells 
you the sugar has been worked over. The sugars have definitely been 
caramelised.

Ask any person who still makes lollies the old fashion way. It all about 
cooking the sugar. Different flavours of sugar lollies, be it caramel or 
toffee, and the host of flavours inbetween, can be achieve just like 
mashing, by manipulating temperatures, and times. In fact lolly making is a 
true art in itself. My Nana told me its a long slow boil with lowish heat 
that always makes the best sweets.

Now its interesting that you can get these flavours at below boiling point. 
It takes some time mind you. I recall from the old brain-box that the 
reaction can start at 80C (happy to be corrected as I am a little merry on 
some beer and too lazy to check), naturally this reaction becoming far 
quicker the higher the temperature. And apply any heat, especially in an 
acid environment should invert some sugar. But most references I see says 
most candi sugar is mostly sucrose - cane sugar, but has a little inverted 
sugar. And further proof is inverted sugar does not crystalise anywhere as 
easily as sucrose for the average punter.

Also>>>>>> As far as I can find, candi sugar is made by crystallization, not 
cooking.<<<<<
Sorry not so. Candy sugar is cooked. Yes its crystallised, but its 
crystallised from a HOT sugary liquid. The temperatures this sugary liquid 
is maintained determines flavour, like all lolly making. In my article, I 
dont bother with the slow method of crystallisation, I just evaporate to get 
it to a crystal form for storage. Its the cooking before hand thats the key.

If I am making some on the day of my brew, I dont crystallise it, but heat 
and caramelise (cook) it and add it in liquid form. That one advantage of 
stainless steel fermenters, I can pour hot liquid "candi" straight into the 
fermenter. Saves me trying to get it into a crystal form.

>>>>>>  Also, in tasting medium and dark candi sugars, I don't detect any
hint of carmel at all<<<<<

Nether do I. As I said, its all in the cooking, temperatures and times. I'm 
using caramelisation in a generic term. You dont have to make caramel to 
caramelise.


Shout
Graham Sanders

oh

Bloody Phil is going to get it. Not only did he steal my young Swedish 
brewing maids and made them dance about naked, he sent young randy bucks up 
to me instead. You will keep, for SWMBO is getting all excited. But I pity 
these blokes, for she will use them, abuse them and spit them out. Leaving a 
poor tormented wreaked sole behind (that looks a lot like Phil Yates).

The RSPCA is going to sue me over this - it aint human or humane.




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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:26:35 -0700
From: Dan Fink <danbob at starband.net>
Subject: High Altitude Hop Cultivation

Hello all; new to the list, but have been homebrewing and writing since 
1989.

I live at 8200 ft elevation in northern colorado--harsh winters with 
tons of snow, temperatures down to 30 below zero F, short growing 
season, frost possible and common even in June, July and August. 5 years 
ago I decided to put in some Cascade hop rhizomes. Carefully prepared 
the soil, fertilized with manure, put them in a spot that gets lots of 
roof runoff water, in general made it real nice for them.

Year one: nothing came up
Year two: nothing came up
Year three: had already given up, "them hops is dead." Then while 
trimming vegetation around the house in August because of fire danger, 
noticed a pair of hop shoots, and left them. They got to about 1 foot in 
height.
Year four: Same 2 hop shoots came up in June, and got to about 6 feet in 
height. Got a grand total of 14 hop flowers, enough to use as "chew" 
between the cheek and gum....
Year five (this year!): Take a look at the photo I just shot today:
http://www.otherpower.com/images/hops.JPG
getting a bit ragged and yellow because we've had 6-8 good frosts 
already (first frost was in mid-August), and they probably need some 
extra nitrogen. Had to go out every day this summer and train them away 
from the solar panels. Watching the resin glands and the weather 
forecast extremely closely, and will probably harvest in the next few 
days, before we get a big snow (any time now).

The moral of the story......be patient in a harsh environment. I've 
grown hops in town, and they come up fast and thrive and get 30 feet 
high.....but the extra years for them to adjust to the climate up here 
seem to have paid off. They could go clear to the roof next summer.

Dan Fink






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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:37:44 +0100
From: tony at thebarnsleys.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sanke Spears and British Caramel Taste

Sorry Tom, Should Have read your post more carefully. Glad you 
worked out how to deal with that Bass Keg, that Type was the 
first one I turned into my Mash Tun (trusty Angle Grinder to the 
rescue :> )

Still the Type G (Mine is stamped Thwaites, a Local 'mini' 
brewery, much bigger than a micro but smaller than the big Six, 
well five now) Has a sping loaded catch that sticks out from the 
side of the fitting it folds up when you insert the spear but 
once inside it flips out to prevent easy removal of the spear. a 
short length of stiff wire bent round into a semi circle and 
inserted down the side of the fitting will allow you to compress 
the catch and remove the spear.

For that British Caramel Twang you could try adding some caramel 
which is what the big boys do, mostly for colour reasons. Still I 
have had some fun withdrawing off a pint of the first runnings 
and pouring it into  an OLD (very old if you need to get spousal 
unit permission :> ) Cast Iron pot that I have had heating on the 
stove. It boils like crazy, lots of foam, but does produce a nice 
caramel note when fully reduced. You may need to add some more 
wort to help get it back into the boil kettle. The usual 
disclaimers apply here, Be careful!

- -- 
Regards
le Man ( The Brewer Formerly Known as Aleman )
- -- 
Regards
le Man ( The Brewer Formerly Known as Aleman )



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