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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: New kegger having problems -- they won't hold pressure! (Bob Tower)
  RE: Brew Stand Design ("Steve Smith")
  Full mash to malt extract recipe conversion (Oisin Boydell)
  2nd diacetyl rest? (leavitdg)
  Wahl and Henius ("Chris \"Pacman\" Ingermann")
  Re: Brewing Stand Plans (cboyer)
  Re: HERMS set temperature (Mike_Andrews)
  warm weather brewing 3 (pacman)
  London pubs? ("Bridges, Scott")
  Zurich lager (Jeremy Hansen)
  Re: Wahl and Henius ("Pat Babcock")
  Heat tolerant yeasts ("Dean Fikar")
  RE: Brew Stand Design ("Doug Hurst")
  Results of the 2004 Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition (Seth Goodman)
  Noah A. Bolmer asks about warm weather yeast... ("Rob Moline")
  high temp yeasts (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Kegs won't hold pressure (Dan Fink)
  harvesting hops--oxidation / spoilage ("Janie Curry")
  What's in Fort Collins? ("Janie Curry")
  And the letter begins... ("Pat Babcock")
  link of the week - beer vs free radicals (Bob Devine)
  Dixie Cup Call for Entries and Judges ("Mike Heniff")
  Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer ("Bill Pierce")
  Photos of Hallertau Hop Harvest and Ayinger Brewery (Art Steinmetz)
  re: New kegger having problems -- they won't hold pressure! (John Schnupp)
  Is a "Secondary Fermentation" Really a Secondary Fermentation? (cboyer)


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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 00:37:56 -0700
From: Bob Tower <tower at cybermesa.com>
Subject: Re: New kegger having problems -- they won't hold pressure!

Mark Mierzejewski of Kirkland, WA has bought some used Cornelius kegs 
but has had problems with getting them to seal and hold pressure. I 
manage a home brew shop where we regularly rebuild used kegs for our 
customers (so that they do not get put in a position that Mark is in!) 
and I've seen it all when it comes to these types of kegs.

In re-reading your post I noticed that you mention that some of the 
kegs have small plastic rings under the poppets. Uh oh! Sounds like B3 
unloaded some "racetrack" kegs on you. These are ancient kegs where the 
lids are square with rounded corners (like a racetrack) as opposed to 
the newer (and much better) models which have oval lids. Racetrack kegs 
IMHO are junk. Occasionally when we buy entire lots of used kegs from 
soda bottling companies we get stuck with a few racetrack kegs that 
were mixed in with the good kegs. I think about all they're worth is 
what you can get for them as scrap value. I will not in good conscious 
sell them. Getting the proper parts for these kegs now days is just 
about impossible. I've purchased numerous types of those plastic spacer 
rings and they are NEVER the right size (always too tall). Compared to 
the newer models they are problematic (which is why they were replaced 
by the newer models). Removing the down tubes from the plastic rings is 
always fun, usually involving several minutes of prying up on them and 
cursing. Plus I've encountered different diameter down tubes (no 
replacements available) and other non-standard or at least unavailable 
parts on these kegs. It's always a surprise (rarely a good one) when 
you open one of these suckers up. Hopefully they didn't sell you all 
racetrack kegs. My advice would be to ditch the racetrack kegs 
(hopefully you didn't pay too much for them) unless you are up for a 
challenge and don't mind endless tinkering around with them. Wouldn't 
you rather be brewing? If you are having trouble with the oval lid kegs 
then read on. . . .

Mark specifically stated that the main problems he is having is leakage 
around the lid and leakage through the poppet valves. The first thing 
to try with the lids is to pull the wire down not quite all the way and 
then wiggle them back and forth sideways until it feels like it seats 
positively. I've had any number of kegs that wouldn't hold pressure 
require this in order to seat properly. There is some kind of 
distortion in either the lip on the keg or the lid itself. If this 
doesn't work then try it again while applying 5-10 psi. Next, inspect 
the lip on the keg looking for any inconsistencies. If they are bad, 
you may need to carefully take a rubber mallet or a soft piece of wood 
and gently try tap the lip in order to straighten it out. Be careful 
and go slow. Numerous small taps are better than one big one. Next look 
at the top of the lid. Do you see a dimple or depression? If so, then 
some dummy in the past in an attempt to break loose a stuck lid has 
taken a hammer and pounded on it. If you can fix any distortion the lip 
may have then you MAY need to replace the lid if it's too distorted. 
Depending on what type of keg you have (ball lock or pin lock) your 
relief valve may need replacing. Sprinkle some water on the top of your 
keg, apply gas and look for bubbling to see if the leak is around the 
lid or at the relief valve. If everything looks fine and/or has been 
fixed or replaced and you may need a different kind of o-ring around 
the lid. Williams Brewing in Northern California sells some really fat 
lid o-rings that can save kegs that have lid sealing problems. They are 
kind of pricey so I only use them as a last resort but sometimes it's 
the only thing that can get problematic kegs to seal.

Poppet valves. If you have a pin lock keg, there is only one type of 
poppet valve. If you've replaced these and they still leak then 
something is wrong with the post itself. Solution: replace the post. If 
the leak is around the base of the post rather than at the top where 
the poppet seals and you've replaced the post and the dip tube o-ring 
then there is a problem with the threads. There may be a solution but 
it's not worth it since kegs without post thread problems are cheap and 
plentiful. Contact B3 for a refund unless they explicitly sold them to 
you "as is no refunds". If you have a ball lock keg it's a little more 
complicated as there were numerous models with different replacement 
parts. Basically, there are three types of poppet valves. Two are 
common and one is not very common (used for older models). Determine 
which model you have (Challenger, Spartan, etc.) and get the correct 
poppets. BUT there's no guarantee that you have the correct posts as 
some of the posts that use different poppets will thread onto different 
models and still work. What I would recommend is that you purchase both 
of the common poppet types. Try one type, if it doesn't seal then try 
the other. If neither works then I would replace the post (purchase the 
correct one for your model) and install the correct poppet for that 
post. If you replace the post and the dip tube o-ring and it leaks at 
the base of the post then you may have bad threads (see above).

Hope this information helps.

Bob Tower
Los Angeles, CA



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 03:05:00 -0600
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: RE: Brew Stand Design

Rowan Williams asks:

"Does anybody know of a website (other than morebeer or brewtree.com) that
has plenty of design plans or pictures of brew stands that I could look at
to assist me in designing my own brewing sculpture?"

My best suggestion for Rowan is Barley's Forum Homebrewery Index at
http://p221.ezboard.com/fbarleysforume.showMessage?topicID=184.topic  I
counted 129 pictures at that site of different homebrewing setups, most of
them having working links alongside that take you to the web site homepage
of the individual brewing system owner/designer.  Not only do these pages
offer examples of brew structures, but as individual websites they showcase
the ingenuity, brew science, and suggestions of literally dozens of
homebrewers.  There are items of interest for beginners and advanced brewers
as well.  Since I currently have come into much of the basic equipment I
need to go high gravity all-grain (two drilled and top-holed sanke kegs, a
10-gallon Gott cooler, a pump, a phalse bottom, and a couple of ball
valves), I have literally spent hours at this site to help me decide my
approach.

Steve Smith
Missoula, MT




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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:11:09 +0100
From: Oisin Boydell <oisinboydell at gmail.com>
Subject: Full mash to malt extract recipe conversion

I have been brewing using malt extract, instead of a full mash. Does
anyone know a formula for converting a full mash recipe into a malt
extract recipe?
For example, if a recipe states X amount of pale malt, what equivalent
quantity of malt extract should be used if I want to brew without
mashing. I am aware that some recipes using unmalted grain require
diastatic malt extract, and that some probably can't be brewed at all
without a mash but I am just interested in the simpler recipes.
If the recipe states the desired initial gravity of the wort, can I
use this value to calculate the quantity of malt extract?

Thanks,
Oisin Boydell.


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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 07:07:14 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: 2nd diacetyl rest?


I am bottling a red lager soon, and took it out of its 50F home and placed it 
on the kitchen counter in preparation for the bottling.  If this stays there 
for any significant time, could this consititute and second diacetyl rest? And, 
if so is this a bad thing?  It has had a diacetyl rest already (at the end of a 
month in primary), so I am not sure if it needs another.  I just wonder what 
might be the consequences of letting this brew come up to 60F or higher just 
before bottling?

Darrell

Happy Brewing!



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 05:42:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Chris \"Pacman\" Ingermann" <maltmasher at yahoo.com>
Subject: Wahl and Henius

Does anyone know what happened to the The American Handy Book of
Brewing by Wahl and Henius at
http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/Wahl/ ??? I clicked on a link
I saved for it and it's not there anymore...

Thanks,


=====
Chris "Pacman" Ingermann
Damn Brewing's Fun!!!!
Muncie, Indiana
http://www.ingermann.com



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:54:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: cboyer at ausoleil.org
Subject: Re: Brewing Stand Plans

Rowan, all:

I believe I have posted this address to the list before, but on my brewing
info web site there is a complete set of plans for a "two and one" brewing
stand.  This is the stand that I use, and basically, I converted all of my
CAD drawings into PDF format (Acrobat Reader) and posted them online for
anyone to use, gratis.  The only thing I am asking is that if you download
the files that you drop an online comment (no registration is required) in
the article to let me know if you find them useful.

http://www.homebrewhelp.com

The site is 100% free.  Also features a searchable set of archives for
Homebrew Digest, which Pat Babcock graciously allowed me to upload.

Hope that you find this useful.

Cheers,
Charles Boyer
http://www.homebrewhelp.com



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:49:35 -0400
From: Mike_Andrews at vfc.com
Subject: Re: HERMS set temperature

Steve, I have been using a herms system in some format for a few years now
and can tell you they are only as good as the efficiency of your heat
exchanger.  It sounds like you ran into the same problem I did.  Your heat
exchanger inefficiencies require HLT temps that approach or go beyond the
de-naturing point of the enzymes in your mash.  You have two options to
correct this: you can lower the HLT temp and perform slower step ramps, or
increase the efficiency of your heat exchanger.
Knowing that my counterflow chiller is more efficient than my old
submersion chiller, (which was being used as my hlt heat exchanger) I
decided to purchase a second pump and use the counterflow chiller/heater as
my heat exchanger.  I have just recently purchased this pump, and have only
brewed two batches on it, but have been very pleased with the performance.
During steps, the mash temps lag the HLT temps by 2 degrees, where before I
had a much larger delta T to drive the steps.  It now appears that ramp
times are limited by how quickly I can heat the HLT, instead of the heat
exchanger efficiency.
By making your heat exchanger more efficient, you will get much more
benefit from your PID controls.  As it is now, your applying precise
control to a very soft (slow to respond) mechanism.  As heat exchanger
efficiency improves, the control efficiency will also improve.

Good Luck,
Mike Andrews



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 9:38:18 -0400
From: <pacman at cox.net>
Subject: warm weather brewing 3

Thank you for the various suggestions, 
recipes, and yeast strains. I will be 
trying a variety of them, especially 
the one posted by Scott Alfter. It is 
odd that not one of my brewing texts, 
or any resource I can find on the 
Internet suggests brewing at anything 
over 75F... after a few batches, I'll 
be sure and give a write-up of my findings. 

But spake not the Lord that man cannot 
survive on Belgian beer alone? I've 
decided on a project, and I'm interested 
in what the engineers among HBD have to 
say...

I have seen the one peltier cooled keg 
out there, a simple affair that can cool 
beer 10 degrees below ambient. I'd like 
to take the concept further. Note that I 
am a well-seasoned computer overclocker 
and have been dealing TEC's and heat sink 
fan combos for a long time. This is what 
I envision (anyone who has ever connected 
2 wort chillers, putting one in an ice 
bath has an idea of how this works):

A corny keg wrapped in copper tubing. The 
coil covered keg is insulated by a foam 
box or some such. The in and out leads of 
the tubing go to a liquid resevoir that 
is supercooled using a series of TEC's, 
hot side out with a computer heatsink/fan 
combo on each one. A liquid pump moves the 
cool liquid through the coil, exits warm 
back into the resevoir to be cooled again. 
There is a thermistor (temperature probe) 
drilled, or otherwise made to be located 
within the keg. A thermostat reads the 
probe, engages the system when it gets too 
warm. You could even add a heating belt to 
the system for when it gets too cold. The 
resevoir, pump, and thermostat could all 
be made into one small unit that sits 
next to, or even under the keg as a sort 
of stand. 

As opposed to the current TEC cooled keg 
which only goes 10 degrees below ambient, 
this system (I believe) could get the 
temperature all the way down to lager, 
and could even be microprocessor controlled 
for lagering schedules. with the cold 
dispersed enough to cool evenly. You could 
also use the device as a very rapid wort 
chiller. Unfortunately, my background is in 
law, not math. There are several variables 
here:

1. The diameter of the tube dictates how much 
water it holds at a given time

2. The pumps are rated in gallons per hour 
which dictates the rate at which liquid will 
flow through a given diameter of tubing

3. Different TEC's have different ratings 
(wattage) which dictate how much temperature 
differential they will provide for a given 
amount of substance. 

4. Different liquids have different chemical 
characteristics that effect how well they 
transfer heat, and at what point they freeze. 

I am trying to figure out, thus: What type 
of, and how much tubing, what pump rating, 
how powerful of/how many TEC's to use (and 
how to array them- series or parallel) and 
what sort of liquid to use... antifreeze? 

Thanks for any help. Keep it fairly lay 
engineers, I'm still learning ;)




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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:11:37 -0400
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: London pubs?


I am going to be heading to London over the Christmas holiday this year.
Actually, my son's marching band (Chapin HS, SC) is going to play in the New
Yrs parade and SWMBO and I are going with them.  Fortunately, we are not
chaperoning and will be able to sneak away on occasion for some adult fun
with some other couples.  We'll be staying in the SW, and would like to hear
about any must see local places.  We want to plan out our attack so we make
sure to hit some places with good beer and atmosphere, preferably some real
ale as well.

I have checked out the archives and found a few web sites with some info.
I'd also like to hear first hand from someone who knows the area since time
will be somewhat limited.

Thanks in advance!  Email or posting is fine either way.

Scott



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:18:41 -0500
From: Jeremy Hansen <cfjh at eiu.edu>
Subject: Zurich lager

Hi gang.

I recently added the Whitelabs Zurich Lager to my growing (and thriving)
yeast farm. I bought this yeast...well, I suppose because it was there. So
now I'm wondering what a good use for this yeast would be? Is there a
definitively Swiss style of beer?

Secondly, how long in a fridge should I keep agar-based slants before using
them or reculturing them?

Thanks much!

Jeremy Hansen



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:40:42 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Wahl and Henius

"Chris \"Pacman\" Ingermann" <maltmasher at yahoo.com> writes of Wahl and Henius:

> Does anyone know what happened to the The American Handy Book of
> Brewing by Wahl and Henius at
> http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:8080/Wahl/ ??? I clicked on a link
> I saved for it and it's not there anymore...

Hubris, the home of Wahl-Henius and the HBD Search Engine, is long gone. Wahl-
Henius can now be found at http://hbd.org/aabg/wahl. THe search engine can't 
be found anywhere yet...

- --

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock at hbd.org


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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:40:33 -0500
From: "Dean Fikar" <nospam at raddr-pages.com>
Subject: Heat tolerant yeasts

I have posted a PowerPoint presentation that I gave at the AHA NHC a
couple of years ago, "Brewing in the Heat",  on the web at:

www.raddr-pages.com/Powerpoint/BTH.htm

Towards the end I list some yeast strains that do well at warmer temps
that may be of interest to some of you participating in the current
"Warm Weather Yeasts" discussion.  I'm not sure how long I'll leave this
up but it'll be there for at least a little while. ;^) Thanks again to
Steve A. for his help on this.

 -Dean Fikar




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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:59:26 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Brew Stand Design


Rowan asked about websites with pictures and designs of brew systems.  
Coincidentally I was looiking at some last night on the hombrewery photo 
gallery on the Brews and Views BBoard at brewery.org.  It's set up in a 
forum format so you can even post questions to the designers.

http://hbd.org/discus/messages/366/366.html?1092789818

Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:58:30 -0400
From: Seth Goodman <seth.goodman at comcast.net>
Subject: Results of the 2004 Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition

The 2004 Topsfield Fair Homebrew Competition was held this past
Saturday, September 11, 2004.

Congratulations to Ken Weber, who took Best of Show for his Koelsch.
Full contest results are up on the North Shore Brewers website, at:
<http://hbd.org/northshore/Topsfair%20Results%202004.html>

Thanks to everyone who helped us with the competition.  See you all next
year!




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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:16:32 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com>
Subject: Noah A. Bolmer asks about warm weather yeast...

Folks,
     Noah A. Bolmer asks about warm weather yeast...
     Steve Dale-Johnson of the Royal Canadian Malted Patrol suggests many
and speculates that Danstar Nottingham could be suitable.
     Nick of Albany NY states ... "Definitely do NOT use Nottingham dry
yeast if you
are at 76 degrees. The off-flavors are not as nice as the fruitiness you
get from WL Burton, European, or British Ale yeasts."
     While suggestion, speculation and personal experience are just
that......and while one can't comment without further knowledge of the
parameters of brewing that lead Nick to dismiss Nott....I can only put
forward my own experiences and recommendations.

	Nott is a perfectly suitable yeast for higher temps, known for it's lack of
esters and ability to even work  at  lager temps of 50-55 F.....bottom
line....esters low....across the range, in comparison with many other
yeasts. Known in many commercial settings for brewing lager style brews
along the pilsner flavour curve  at  68 F, fermented in 4-5 days....it works.

	Noah...try Nott.....it's a great start, and even if you don't like the
results, you will have gained the experience. BTW, it gets medals in major
comps, even  at  high grav and warm temps.
     Steve..."esteemed?"  You present more honour than I deserve.
     Nick.....Sorry for your bad experience....perhaps another parameter
should be examined......

     OBVIOUS ANSWER...STEAM YEAST.

Cheers!
Gump

Rob Moline
Lallemand
515-450-0243 cell

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:08:05 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: high temp yeasts

The recent posts on high-temperature tolerant yeasts was rather timely.

I am brewing up an Imperial IPA to be served on cask at a local festival.
The beer, Decimal, has 100 gravity units (OG 1.100), 100 IBUs, and 10oz
hops, needed to be ready quickly.  On Sunday I pitched two 11.5g packs of
Whitbread ale yeast and one 11.5 packet of Safale S-04 ale yeast.  So I came
home Monday night after work and smelled the lovely scent of fermentation
a-goin'. But maybe a little too many banana esters, suggesting fermentation
temps were too hot.
Checked the gravity--1.040!

Checked the temperature of the fermentation--86F!!!

I could actually FEEL heat being thrown off the fermenter. It was
astounding. I chucked ice into a 1gal freezer bag and sanitized the outside
of the bag with StarSan. Dropped the bag into my 15 gallon MiniBrew
fermenter (thankfully the lid is about 12" across, so this is easy) and let
it chill things down. After 10 minutes at least 2/3 of the ice was melted
and the fermentation temps were again cool to the touch...probably in the
low 60s.

I racked the beer on Wednesday to a carboy and everything seemed OK. Tasted
the hydrometer sample too--pretty damned good for being three days old. But
BITTER!!! Woooooooooooooooo! 100 IBUs might be an understatement.

My experience here is that the Safale S-04 and Whitbread dry ale yeasts are
heat tolerant, since it just tastes like a very hoppy, very strong
IPA...which it was meant to be.

Cheers!
Marc



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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:35:01 -0700
From: Dan Fink <danbob at starband.net>
Subject: Re: Kegs won't hold pressure

Those of us who can't afford brand new Corny Kegs are usually stuck with 
the beat-up used version. I've seen the problem before too on mine...I 
have over a dozen old corny kegs laying about.

For racetrack lids that don't seal -- I usually carefully clean the lid 
and rim, and inspect for obvious dings in the rim, and try to gently fix 
those with pliers. After doing that, I assemble the keg and tighten the 
poppets down, and forcefully yank the lid upward by the bail. Then I 
jack it up with 40 psi of CO2, and yank on the bail again. This has 
worked most of the time for me....the extra pressure forces everything 
into place, and the next time the problem is much lessened.

And, note that due to damage, you may find a situation where a certain 
lid only works on a certain keg -- usually when there's a ding in the 
top that happened while the lid was in place. In that case be sure to 
mark the lids and kegs so you don't frustrate yourself!

I have never had a poppet sealing problem unless there was visible 
damage to the poppet threads or poppet itself, or damaged O-rings. 
Sounds like you may have them assembled wrong, but I'm not sure. I don't 
usually take the poppets apart, but instead soak them in Iodophor or 
StarSan overnight.

Hope that helps a bit!
DANF







> 
> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:06:53 GMT
> From: "markmier at netzero.com" <markmier at netzero.com>
> Subject: New kegger having problems -- they won't hold pressure!
> 
> 
> Greetings from a long time lurker, first time poster.  I've been brewing
> extracts/cider/mead for about 10 years now.  A few months ago I finally 
> made the plunge and bought a Cornelius kegging system from morebeer.com.  
> I'm very happy with it for the most part, or I should say I am very 
> happy with the one keg that actually works.  
> 
> I'm not very happy with the quality of (4 of the 5) used kegs I got.  
> Out of 5 kegs that I bought, I can only get one of them (currently full 
> of IPA) to hold pressure.  I am wondering if there is any trick to it.  
> When I got them, I also bought new gaskets and all kinds of spare parts, 
> extra poppets, posts, relief valves, lubes and all that.  When I got the 
> kegs from morebeer, I totally took them all completely apart, cleaned 
> everything, replaced all the gaskets and some of the poppets, lubed up 
> the posts with the thicker paste lube (a morebeer product), and lubed up 
> the gaskets with the spray lube (also a morebeer product).  Actually, 
> one of them had the posts so stuck that I had to lengthen my ratchet 
> with a pipe, and used another pipe for leverage to pry off the post. 
> I damaged the threads on that one, which was I guess my fault but the 
> post just would not come off any other way.  And now, like I said, 4 of 
> the 5 kegs won't hold pressure.  At all.  It leaks out noticeably as
> soon as I turn on the gas.  2 of them from the lid, and 2 of them from 
> poppets.  What am I doing wrong?  I've tried every permutation of 
> post/different poppets/spacer rings (some of them came with white 
> plastic spacer rings that fit underneath the poppet), and I've tried 
> replacing the lid gaskets, lubing, not lubing... I don't know what else 
> to do.  Did I just have bad luck and end up with 4/5 junky kegs?  Does 
> anyone have any suggestions of what else I can try?
> 
> By the way, the 5th keg works like a charm.  :)
> 
> Mark Mierzejewski
> Kirkland, WA
> 



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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 17:20:27 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: harvesting hops--oxidation / spoilage

Two of my hop vines this year are producing bumper crops.  My cascade hop 
vine is in it's second year of producition and is way ahead of the others as 
far as overall growth and production.  Matter of fact, I apparently planted 
the Cascade too close to the Centenial, as it has been completely smothered 
by it's Cascade neighbor, hardly producing foliage much less hops.  I 
discovered last night that it's harvest time so I opened up a bottle of 
homebrew and picked the smaller vine clean after I got home from work.

The problem I'm facing is that I'm running way short on time.  I'm due to 
head out of town on Sunday to bike the Cour de Laine trail all of next week 
and maybe fly fish the St. Joe if I get the time.  That leaves Saturday to 
pack.  Luckily, I put the BoB trailer together last week, and overahauled 
the touring bikes a couple weeks ago, repacked the hubs, headsets, etc...but 
I digress.

Just two hours of picking the small vine (pretty sure it's the Chinook vine) 
yielded approximately a bushel, and I've only picked a very small part of 
the very large Cascade vine.  Needless to say, my 8 tray dehydrator is 
packed full and I've only dried half the harvest of the smaller vine.  Loads 
more to go!

I set the dehydrator on the lowest possible setting...virtually no heat.  
It's so dry here in the Idaho desert that they dry very quickly.  
Immediately after drying, I plan to use a kitchen vacum sealer to seal 
approximately 2 oz in non-permeable plastic bags in order to minimize 
oxidation.

Last year, the hops dried quickly.  I think I tried them at around 140F if I 
remember correctly based on a book reference on homegrown hops.  I believe 
they sat aound in ziplocs for a week or two until SWMBO and I broke down and 
bought a vacum sealer.

My contingency plan, since I'm so short on harvesting time, is to go ahead 
and pick all of the hops rather than leave the ripe hops on the vine for 
another week.  To dry, I plan to spread them out on a newspaper in a thin 
layer in the garage for a week while I'm away.

Questions:

When do the detrimental effects of oxidation set in?

If I allow them to dry for a week before I vacum seal them, will aroma or 
bitterness qualities deteriorate?

Would I be better off vacum sealing them without drying them since I have to 
wait a week for them to air dry?

Should I put the green hops in ziplocs and store them in my beer fridge or 
chest freezer and take them out in a week to dry them in the dehydrator in 
order to be able to immedialtely seal them afterowrds?

I used last year's hops in one batch of pale ale.  Having no idea the alpha 
acid level, and guessing that it was pretty low because it was the first 
year of production, I used several ounces for bittering.  Overall, the beer 
came out like a red ale.  A good session beer, but very low bitterness and 
virtually no hop aroma.  Perhaps I picked them too green?  Perhaps the week 
or two (ok, maybe 3 or 4 weeks) in the ziplocs on the kitchen table allowed 
oxidation and deterioration?


Todd in Idaho



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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:53:15 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: What's in Fort Collins?

I'll be relocating to Fort Collins CO in the near future. Can anyone suggest 
a good local homebrew supply shop in the area?  How about brewing clubs?

I've also seen the recent posts about the difficulties faced by hop growers 
living at 8000 feet.  Fort Collins is around 5000ft.  Will hops grow in Fort 
Collins?

Todd in Idaho



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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:06:13 -0400
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: And the letter begins...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

After an overlong hiaitis from checking the PO Box, I find this:

"Dear Pat; 

I don't know what this is really worth to you, or if it helps much, but even 
though I just helped with a donation, your work on beefing & cleaning up the 
HBD server inspired me so much I just had to send something.

Thanks so very much for all you do, seen and unseen, to connect and bind us 
crazy home brewers together. Blessings on ya', and keep on coding.

Ross Porter

Labors of love are the hardest and most rewarding. Thanks."


That, folks, sums it up. 

Ross, thanks for the note. It means a lot.

- --

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock at hbd.org


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Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:02:39 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - beer vs free radicals

After the famed reserach on how red wine helps reduce free
radicals, comes a study from Canada that says beer works too.

http://tinyurl.com/5zkpg

time for my "medication",
Bob Devine


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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:27:46 -0500
From: "Mike Heniff" <m.heniff at earthlink.net>
Subject: Dixie Cup Call for Entries and Judges

The Houston Foam Rangers present the 21st Annual Dixie Cup and will be
celebrating our 21 Vegas-style.  The event dates are October 14-16, 2004
with Dixie Cup central being the Comfort Inn at US-59 at Weslyan.
Speakers include Dr. Charles Bamforth from UC-Davis, Randy Thiel of
Brewery Ommegang, homebrew pioneer and author Byron Burch, Chip McElroy
from Live Oak Brewing in Austin, and of course, Fred Eckhardt. 

135 medals will be awarded in 45 categories!  Entries are due by October
1st for $7 (on-line) or $8 (paper).  The late entry deadline of October
8th costs $10.  Three bottles are required, maximum of two entries per
medal category, style guidelines will be the 2004 BJCP guidelines.
Category splits are located on the website at www.foamrangers.com

Judging will be held on Sunday, October 10th starting at 10 AM at the
Saint Arnold Brewery.  Judging continues on Tuesday, October 12, 6 PM at
the Saint Arnold Brewery.  Judging at the event hotel will be on noon
Friday October 15 and again at noon Saturday October 16.

If you need more information, visit the website www.foamrangers.com or
email Ed Moore at dixiecup at foamrangers.com 

Hope to see you there!




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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:32:50 -0400
From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce at aol.com>
Subject: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer

(Caution: this is geeky and involves math.)

I'm doing a little experimenting with a refractometer and a hydrometer and
some commercial beers. In the January/February 2001 Zymurgy Louis Bonham
provides a formula for calculating the specific gravity of a beer when the
O.G. is known and a refractometer measurement is taken:

SG = 1.001843 - (0.002318474 * OG) - (0.000007775 * OG^2) - (0.000000034 *
OG^3) + (0.00574 * R) + (0.00003344 * R^2) + (0.000000086 * R^3)

SG and OG are expressed in degrees Plato and R in Brix.

He also provides a simplified version of the above formula: SG = (1.53 *
R) - (0.59 * OG)

This implies that it's also possible to estimate the O.G. of a beer when you
have both a refractometer reading and a hydrometer reading. Using the
simplified version of the formula and solving for O.G., the formula is :

OG = (2.593 * R) - (1.695 * SG)

However, the results using the simplified version don't seem to be quite as
accurate.

I'm wondering if any of you beer math geeks have the more complex formula
above solved for O.G., or software that can solve it.

Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Burlington, Ontario
BillPierce(at)aol.com



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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:47:52 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinmetz at rcn.com>
Subject: Photos of Hallertau Hop Harvest and Ayinger Brewery

Howdy, folks.  I've been merely a lurker here since moving from a house 
with a basement brewery to a NYC apt. five long years ago. Still, I thought 
you guys might enjoy seeing what a beer geek's camera gets pointed at when 
he's in beer heaven.

http://asteinmetz.home.pipeline.com/

Enjoy!

- -- Art
asteinm at pipeline.com 



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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: New kegger having problems -- they won't hold pressure!

Mark laments,
>I'm not very happy with the quality of (4 of the 5) used kegs I got.  
>Out of 5 kegs that I bought, I can only get one of them (currently full 
>of IPA) to hold pressure.  I am wondering if there is any trick to it.  
<snip>
>Did I just have bad luck and end up with 4/5 junky kegs?  Does 
>anyone have any suggestions of what else I can try?

Mark,

One thing that may work, especially for those kegs that are leaking around the
lid is the o-ring from Williams Brewing.  http://www.williamsbrewing.com
The oring is item D11.  Just pop that into the search and you should find it. 
Basically it is an oring that it a little thicker and softer than the standard
keg lid orings.

Also Williams has some really good close up pictures of the various fittings. 
Pay special attention to the pictures of the poppet valves.  There are
different designs for different keg manufactures.  You may have poppet valves
that will not work with your kegs/fittings.



=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee


		


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Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: cboyer at ausoleil.org
Subject: Is a "Secondary Fermentation" Really a Secondary Fermentation?

I recently had an interesting discussion with a rare breed of brewer: a
Belgian homebrewer in Kessel-lo, Belgium, that works at the same company I
do. Apparently, homebrewing is not popular at all in Belgium, which seems
counter-intuitive, but to paraphrase what he said, there was little
homebrewing there becuase so many styles of unique beer were freely
available, that and a government that loves taxing about everything, and
that supplies, etc., were quite expensive.

Anyway, we had a discussion about brewing Belgian styles of beer and
homebrewing in general, and his opinion was backed by his ten years of
working as an assistant at a small brewery.  Of course, he did change
careers into the information systems path...probably because it pays
better, but anyway....

There was one thing that I found intriguing from our discussion.  I told
him my method for producing a trippel, one that any of you would find
quite familiar -- mashing, boiling, primary fermentation, secondary
fermentation and bulk aging prior to bottling.  No magic there.

That's where he correct me: what most homebrewers call a "secondary
fermentation" is technically not one at all -- simply racking off of the
primary off of the primary fermentation yeast cake and trub into a clean
carboy does not rouse or restart fermentation. That's not a secondary
"fermentation" by any standard...it was just moving the beer to repvent
any damage.

That said, (he said) when you prime and bottle, that's really where your
secondary fermentation begins -- you've given the dormant yeast more food,
and the fermentation process restarts. You know the rest. You could call
what we do as homebrewers and call it a secondary as a tertiary -- the
yeast's food supply is not added to, and the step is basically taken to
prevent off-flavors.

Anyway, in some Belgian big beers, wort may be added when the brew is
moved off of the primary and fermentation restarted, perhaps with a
different form of yeast that's more alcohol tolerant, etc. That would be a
TRUE secondary fermentation -- you've roused the yeast and fed it.

Then, in a bigger beer that is bulk aged, a tertiary would be performed to
once again remove the beer from any potential autolyzation of yeast, other
organic decay, etc.

It made sense to me, but I do wonder if he is right how a misconception
like secondary fermentation has crept right into the core of the hobby.

As always, your opinions would be valued.

Cheers,
Charles Boyer
http://www.homebrewhelp.com



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