---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Jeff Renner's Oktoberfest recipe ("Kevin Kutskill")
  Fermenator questions ("Kevin Kutskill")
  link of the week - barley gene map (Bob Devine)
  Re: hydrometer/refractometer fermentation prediction, hops scale ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Apple Cider Final SG?? (Chris & Dianne)
  Electronic Gravity Probe ("H. Dowda")
  Re: help with beer (brown ale) (Craig Cottingham)
  Re: Where to start? ("Richard S Sloan")
  Re: hydrometer/refractometer fermentation prediction (Demonick)
  skotrat.com and brewrats.org downtime ("Scott D. Braker-Abene")
  Where to begin with brewing (Joe Gibbens)
  reg "where to start" (MELANIE CRESENZI)
  Spooky Brew Review Homebrew Competition (Joe Preiser)


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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:41:39 -0400
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at comcast.net>
Subject: Jeff Renner's Oktoberfest recipe

Jeff Renner wrote in HBD #4612:

>I made a nice Oktoberfest in August for an Oktoberfest party 
>tomorrow.  It's really tasty, although it finished a little too 
>sweet.  Maybe should have left out the caravienna.

C'mon Jeff!  Don't tease us . . . . I love (and frequently brew) your
"Killer Vienna" recipe--are you willing to share your Oktoberfest recipe,
too?

Kevin
beer-geek at comcast.net




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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:56:40 -0400
From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at comcast.net>
Subject: Fermenator questions

Sean Harper has questions about the Fermenator:

>However, I understand that part of the reason for a secondary is to (in a 
>manner of speaking) agitate the present yeast into action via the act of 
>racking from one carboy to the other...

This would apply to those yeasts that are high flocculators--such as Wyeast
1968--London ESB Ale Yeast.  This yeast may require agitation to finish
fermenting, but this is not the case with most yeasts.  I bought a
Fermenator a couple of years ago, because of some worsening back problems--I
didn't want to have my back spasm up while carrying a full glass carboy, and
end up dropping a whole batch of beer.  Now my brewery is all stainless,
from brewing setup to keg, and I love it.  The yeast settles in a nicely at
the bottom of the vessel, which makes yeast harvesting very easy (if you
like to save your yeast).  The side port works very well for racking off
clear beer.  I mounted a set of wheels on the legs, and I can roll the
Fermenator from one end of the brewery to the other very easy.  

The Fermenator is pricy, but worth it, compared to dealing with a glass
grenade in my basement (happened once to me, which was once too much).  

Kevin
beer-geek at comcast.net





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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:24:39 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - barley gene map

Here's a great, uber-geek site.  If you are interested
in the genome of barley, McGill University put togther
web pages for with an easy-to-search format.

http://gnome.agrenv.mcgill.ca/bg/

While any application to homebrewing is a bit tenuous,
it is fascinating to see how the science has progressed
in less than a generation.

Bob Devine


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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:41:54 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: hydrometer/refractometer fermentation prediction, hops scale

On Saturday, 25 September 2004 at 11:37:03 -0700, Scott Alfter wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 at 14:32:22 -0700, Moses Rocket wrote:
>> No need to commit much of anything to memory Dave. Even with the most
>> fermented brain cells, anyone can remember that 5 US cents = 5 grams.  Who
>> says the US doesn't use the metric system!!!
>
> By "5 US cents," do you mean five pennies or a nickel?  If pennies, do you
> mean the older ones made entirely of copper (up to some time in the early
> '80s) or the newer ones that are copper-plated zinc?  The copper and
> copper/zinc pennies have slightly different weights; it's why you can count
> nickels, dimes, and quarters by weight, but you can't do the same with
> pennies anymore.

> (Before sending this message on its way, I decided to do a little searching
> and came up with this page:
>
> http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/index.cfm?action=coin_specifications
>
> They say nickels weigh 5.000 grams each, while copper/zinc pennies weigh
> 2.500 grams each.  There's nothing on there about the weight of the older
> all-copper pennies, probably because they haven't been made in 20+ years and
> aren't considered current coinage anymore (though they're still legal
> tender).  As a result, it looks like you could get to 5 grams with either a
> nickel or two copper/zinc pennies.)

I tried weighing some US currency.  The results are interesting.  Six
1 cent pieces weighed 2.50 g each (possibly 2.51, but that could be my
balance).  The other two, presumably the ones to which you refer,
weighed 3.12 g ("exactly" 25% more).  The heavier ones are dated 1961
and 1964; the lighter ones range between 1993 and 2000.  The three
nickels weighed between 4.82 g and 4.99 g, not consistent enough to be
useful.  So if I were using US coins as weights, I'd go for recent 1c
pieces.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:15:40 -0700
From: Chris & Dianne <johnstonmaclean at shaw.ca>
Subject: Apple Cider Final SG??

Hi all,

I just started a batch of cider, this time with juice fresh pressed from my
own apples.  The farmer who pressed it uses ultraviolet pasteurization, so I
thought I could wait a couple of days before getting the proper yeast.  A
day and a half after pressing, however, I discovered that the 25 litre vat
of juice had begun bubbling happily away.  I have since discovered that
while ultraviolet treatment is excellent for controlling e-coli, it's not so
good for killing wild yeasts.

So, I've decided to let nature follow its course.  Further reading has
revealed that in at least one experiment, wild yeast resulted in a superior
tasting cider.  Admittedly, replication of results might not be so good.  In
any case ... on with my question.  In my previous cider making efforts, I
have let the yeast ferment dry, resulting in a rather harsh cider.  I want
to retain a small amount of residual sweetness, in the style of a
traditional English pub-style cider.  My starting SG (at least when I
discovered it had started to bubble), was 1.046.

What do you recommend for a finishing SG, and how do I stop it there?  I'd
like to be as all-natural as I can, avoiding sulphites.  Is there another
way?  Do I let it ferment dry then add wine conditioner?  Any advice would
be welcome.

Thanks a bushel,

Chris




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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 06:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "H. Dowda" <hdowda at yahoo.com>
Subject: Electronic Gravity Probe

It seems that someone must have designed a probe to
monitor gravity as fermentation progresses that is not
affected by C02 or anything else.  Any references appreciated.


		


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:30:23 -0500
From: Craig Cottingham <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: help with beer (brown ale)

On Sep 26, 2004, at 00:13, "Anna R. Dunster" <azzacanth at 
livejournal.com> wrote:

> I am a newbie to home brewing.
> I started my 2nd batch of beer (ever) and it started up great the
> first day. But then after that no bubbles in the airlock! my
> hydrometer reading: 1.022 SG.
> 
> [ ... ]
> 
> I realized that my closet must've gotten too cold overnight and
> probably killed or put into dormancy my yeast.

5 gallons of beer has an appreciable thermal mass, and most vessels 
you're likely to ferment in as a newcomer act at least somewhat like 
insulators, so it's not very likely that the fermenter got cold enough 
to effect the yeast. Then again, you don't say where (geographically) 
you're fermenting, so I suppose anything is possible. :-)

> I tried 1 suggestion
> which was to stir it up, next day no change, so I pitched some yeast
> that I wasn't sure if it was "good" - it was still before the use by
> date but hadn't been refrigerated (got it with a can of malt extract
> and the store recommended I buy refrigerated yeast and not count on
> that stuff).

If it's dried yeast, it doesn't need to be refrigerated, though it 
shouldn't hurt it if it is. The biggest problem as I understand it with 
the anonymous yeast packets that come with beer kits is that you don't 
normally know how old they are. In your case, that doesn't sound like 
it was a problem.

>   the day after that I *thought* my hydrometer reading was
> 1.018 and I don't think it was wishful thinking. then two days later
> (today) I took another reading and now it seems to be 1.020!

Two questions:

1. Are you compensating your hydrometer readings for temperature? In my 
somewhat limited experience, hydrometers are calibrated assuming that 
the liquid being measured is at 65 degF. If the liquid is 5 degrees 
warmer, the hydrometer will read 1 SG point low. The hydrometer should 
have come with a conversion chart; if yours didn't, I recall seeing one 
on the web somewhere.
2. Have you checked the calibration of your hydrometer? Draw a sample 
of tap water (or, if you've got it, distilled water) and measure its 
SG. Compensate for temperature and you should get 1.000. Any difference 
is a systematic error in your hydrometer that you'll need to remove 
from future readings. (Example: Distilled water at 65 degF reads 1.002. 
Your hydrometer is reading 2 SG points high, so you'll need to subtract 
0.002 from all *temperature-compensated* readings.)

> Whatever is happening its obviously not finishing the fermenting cycle
> if it's hovering around 1.020.

Well, maybe it has. Your yeast may have run out of sugars to ferment.

> Anyway is there any chance for this stuff?  It's been sitting in the
> primary fermenter for 2 weeks now with no signs of me being able to
> make it go down to 1.012.   It was my impression that all beers had to
> go down to 1.012 or so: is that correct?

No. SG is a measure of *everything* in the water. That includes yeast 
cells, fermentable sugars, unfermentable sugars, proteins, hop 
particles, and who knows what else. There's only one thing in that list 
that yeast will ferment, and as soon as it's (more-or-less) gone, 
there's nothing more the yeast can do to bring down the SG.

>    if so is there anything I
> can do to save this stuff?

Do you have a second fermenter? The only thing you can hurt by racking 
out of the current fermenter into a secondary is introducing a 
contaminant, but you already know how to clean and sanitize, so don't 
worry about it.

Taste a sample. In your mind, make it colder and add carbonation to the 
taste. Could you stand to drink it? If so, bottle it and chalk it up to 
experience. (You might put the bottles some place safe and 
water-resistant. If we're wrong, it's still fermenting, and you cap it 
now, the bottles could explode. On the other hand, two weeks with no 
change in SG strongly suggests to me that fermentation is done.)

> Oh yeah and I did move it to a warmer, more temperature stable
> location when I realized that the cold was likely a problem, except
> now it may be too warm - but my first batch brewed on the warm side,
> too.  (I have a stick on thermometer that reads high 70's for its
> current location)

Your second batch of homebrew is way too early to be worrying about 
fermentation temperature. At this point, the only temperatures you 
should be worring about are
1. too cold and you put the yeast to sleep, and
2. too hot and you put the yeast to death.

There's plenty of time in your homebrewing career (hopefully!) to fret 
over a ferment that's a couple of degrees warmer than optimum.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
craig at cottingham.net
OpenPGP key available from:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C


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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:15:32 -0700
From: "Richard S Sloan" <rssloan at household.com>
Subject: Re: Where to start?

::Adam Wilkin's wonders where to start his homebrew education.

I would suggest picking up a copy of either How To Brew by John Palmer or
Joy of Homebrewing by Charlie Papazian or both, and read them before buying
equipment, ingredients, etc. How to Brew is also available online at
http://www.howtobrew.com Another good online resource is http://www.byo.com
which is Brew Your Own magazines website. They have some of their past
articles archived there as well as charts to give you an idea of what the
different grains and hops offer up. If there is a local home brew club you
might want to sit in on a meeting. Most homebrewers I know are more than
glad to share knowledge and help you out.

Good luck on your new hobby(obsession)!

Richard Sloan
San Diego, CA




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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:18:52 -0700
From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com>
Subject: Re: hydrometer/refractometer fermentation prediction

I think this is the polynomial in question:

/*
** SG = 1.001843 - 0.002318474(OG) - 0.000007775(OG^2) - 0.000000034(OG^3) +
**      0.00574(AG) + 0.00003344(AG^2) + 0.000000086(AG^3)
**
** where:
**
** SG = estimated specific gravity of the sample
** OG = Original Gravity of the batch (in Brix)
** AG = Apparent Gravity of the sample (in Brix)
*/

BTW, I'd remember if I wrote ProMash.  I did not.  :-)

Domenick



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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:19:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Scott D. Braker-Abene" <skotrat at yahoo.com>
Subject: skotrat.com and brewrats.org downtime

Hey now, 

Looks like there will be an unplanned forced migration to a new IP address and
a new server this week. During that time neither skotrat.com or brewrats.org
will be available. 

This will affect the Promash Recipe archives, Skotrat recipe archives and the
Ultimate Yeast Profiles. 

I apologize for the downtime. 

I would like to thank Cowan the Beerbarian for his help and quickness in
helping out with new bandwidth and machine hosting. 

I would also like to thank Andy Patrick for the years of free server hosting
that he has provided me. 

Keeping Homebrew information free means alot but appears to be a metric
buttload of work!

C'ya!

 -Scott "Living in a Van down by the river" Abene

=====
"Dad... Parents can't have fun..."
 - Heather Braker

http://www.skotrat.com/skotrat - Skotrats Beer Page
http://www.brewrats.org - BrewRats HomeBrew Club



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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:48:04 -0500
From: Joe Gibbens <jgibbens at gmail.com>
Subject: Where to begin with brewing

Adam is asking about where to begin with homebrewing...

Hi Adam,

I'll assume you're coming in at zero prior knowledge.  Best to start
simple.  If you start simple, and gradually apply improvements to your
brewing techniques, you'll have a lot more fun and you'll be able to
appreciate the results of your efforts as you go.  This is one of
those hobbies where its way too easy to become obsessed.  The Williams
Brewing catalog (No relation) has decent instructions for a beginner.

You definitely want to start with extract brewing.  Malt extract comes
as either a concentrated syrup or a dry powder.  The syrup is a little
easier to work with.

Here is the equipment you need to start.

1.  A heat source.  For a 5 gallon batch size, its possible to brew on
the stove, but unless you have a stove that can vigorously boil 5
gallons, an outdoor burner like the ones used to fry turkeys will be
better.  Which ever you choose, make sure that the kettle you choose
will rest solidly on the burner.

2.  A 6+ gallon brewing kettle.  It is possible to go with a smaller
kettle, and not boil the entire batch, but a full size kettle is much
better.  The kettle can be stainless or aluminum.  Stainless is
better, but aluminum is cheaper.  Either way, make sure the kettle is
made of heavy gauge metal, or you will have scorching problems (can
give a Carmel or burnt taste to the beer).  A quarter or half barrel
keg will make a great stainless steel kettle, and usually for less
than you would spend on an equivalent regular kettle.  Sabco (again no
relation) sells varying degrees of converted kegs.  You can find them
at kegs.com.  If you have a decent circular saw and (drill, dremmel
tool - optional) you can also buy a raw keg from them and convert it
yourself.  If you have the tools and want to try making your own, ask
for a "blow-out" (the bottom has been pushed out a little) keg that
doesn't wobble.  These kegs are not suitable for use as a keg,
(cheaper), but will do fine for a kettle.

3.  A large spoon for stirring the kettle.

4.  A cover for the kettle (depends on how you chill the kettle)

5.  A way to chill the wort in the kettle when the boil is done.  Wort
is the brewers term for unfermented beer.  The faster the chilling,
the better.  There are three ways a homebrewer usually chills wort,
immersing the kettle in a sink/tub full of ice-water, placing a coper
coil in the kettle and running cold water from an outdoor spigot, or
the sink through it (called an immersion chiller), and a counter-flow
chiller that runs the wort outside the kettle through a heat
exchanger.  You will want the kettle covered for the first two
methods.  Counter flow is the best, but probably not a good idea for a
new brewer, and moving 5 gallons of boiling hot liquid can be
dangerous.  Immersion chillers are very easy to make, and give
superior cooling to putting the kettle in water.  I would go with an
immersion chiller.

6.  A large strainer to catch hops and coagulated proteins called hot
break on the way to the fermenter.  A new, sanitized nylon stocking
stretched across the opening of the fermenter should work well here.

7.  A fermenter.  After the wort has been chilled to room temp, you
will transfer the wort into the sanitized fermenter.  Most brewers use
either a 6 gallon food grade plastic bucket, or a 6 gallon glass
carboy.  Glass carboys will last longer, and are easier to clean and
sanitize, but are fragile, a little harder to fill/empty (siphoning
required), and dangerous if handled improperly.  I would start with a
plastic bucket with a lid, and move to glass later.  It will be easier
to quickly pour the cooled wort into a bucket, to aerate it.  In the
initial stages of fermentation, yeast use dissolved oxygen in the wort
to multiply and do a better job of fermenting.  Get a bucket that has
a spigot near the bottom, and try to ferment on a ledge so the spigot
can be opened without having to move the fermenter.

8.  An airlock.  An airlock is a plastic water trap that lets CO2 out
of the fermenter, but doesn't let air or bacteria back in.

9.  A dark, cool place to ferment.  Basements are good for this.  In
general, aim for the low to high 70s (deg F).  The yeast you purchase
should have a recommended temp range.  Too cold, and the yeast will
settle out and not ferment the beer.  Too hot, and you will have some
unpleasant off-flavors.  If you don't have a suitable location, there
are ways to control the temp, ranging from damp towel evaporation
cooling, to modifying a dedicated fridge.

10.  A thermometer to monitor your fermentation temperature.

11.  A length of food grade vinyl tubing.  You will use this to
transfer the fermented beer from the fermenter spigot into sanitized
bottles.  Fill the bottles up near the top, leaving just enough room
for priming sugar.

12.  Two cases of 12 oz bottles, or a case of 24 oz bottles.  You can
save beer bottles, but be aware that twist top bottles may not seal
properly when capped.

13.  Measuring spoons.  By transferring the beer directly from the
fermenter to the bottles, you will need to add sterilized (boiled)
priming sugar to each bottle.  This measurement needs to be EXACT to
keep from over-pressurizing the bottle.

14.  A bottle caper.  The two handled type are ok, just be careful.

15.  Bottle caps.  Sanitize before capping.

16.  Concentrated iodine sanitizer.  Iodine (among other sanitizers)
is used to kill off any bacteria on cleaned surfaces.  Any surface
that touches cooled wort MUST be sanitized to limit the risk of
infecting your brew.  When you brew, just follow the dilution
instructions on the bottle, and fill the fermenting bucket with
sanitizing solution.  Throw the airlock and bucket lid into the
fermenter to sanitize.

17.  A bottle opener :)

BREWING INGREDIENTS

For your first few batches, just buy a kit.  I would shy away from the
kits that have you use half sugar, half malt extract for the
fermentables.  Williams Brewing (again no relation) has some all malt
kits. They are at williamsbrewing.com.


Hope this helps.  If you want to try building any of the equipment, I
can send you some instructions.

Joe Gibbens
Hopedale IL.


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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: MELANIE CRESENZI <cresenzi at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: reg "where to start"

you are right there is a lot of info out there. I
think the type of information you are looking for to
get started is all the same. Its just how well written
is it? Aside from going to the library I think going
to howtobrew.com by John Palmer and reading his on
line book is a great source to get started. Its a free
website plus John Palmer is a regular to the HBD. You
might also try seeing if there are any brew clubs in
your area. Hope this helps.
(FROM ANTHONY CRESENZI NOT MY WIFE MELANIE)


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Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:09:36 -0500
From: Joe Preiser <jpreiser at jpreiser.com>
Subject: Spooky Brew Review Homebrew Competition


Announcing the 13th Annual (Scary number!) Chicago Beer Society Spooky
Brew Review Homebrew Competition. This is an AHA Sanctioned competition.
Enrties will be accepted October 13-22 and may be dropped off at various
Chicago area locations. Judging will be Saturday October 30th at
Emmett's Ale House in Downers Grove IL.

Styles will be 2004 BJCP styles PLUS special Frightening Categories.

For complete information, including style guidelines, entry forms, and
how to register to steward or judge, see
http://www.chibeer.org/spooky04.html


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---