HOMEBREW Digest #4620 Tue 05 October 2004

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  Priming ("Dave Draper")
  providence beer scene ("jim")
  Fortnight of Yeast, 2004-The October Surprise! ("Rob Moline")
  Re: warm lager fermentations ("Jonathan Westphal")
  DME Priming and False Bottoms. ("Dan Listermann")
  Sweetened cider, Refractive Index/Hydrometer, warm lager fermentation ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer (ERROR IN EARLIER POST) ("Bill Pierce")
  Solder Flux (Chuck Doucette)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:19:30 -0600 From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name> Subject: Priming Dear Friends, Fred Johnson, in response to some questions about priming with DME vs. corn sugar, makes some good points about measuring priming sugar by weight rather than volume. Many moons ago, Mark Hibberd and I published an article on priming bottled beers in Brewing Techniques (anybody else REALLY miss BT???) that incorporated the very same principle. You can find it on my beer page, at the link below-- it's near the bottom of the page. Cheers, Dave in ABQ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico David at Draper dot Name Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html ...yeast contain the mechanism of their own destruction. ---Charlie Scandrett Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 00:05:30 -0400 From: "jim" <jimswms at cox.net> Subject: providence beer scene Hi Sean, well, not to sound too negative, but, there's not much good beer in these parts. Two very average brewpubs. If you missed them, you wouldn't be missing much. If you're in town the weekend of the 23rd Oct. is the International Beer Fest. downtown. Other than that, sorry to say, but, there's not much here. It's a nice city with some great restaurants, but, all in all, the beer scene is alot like the mexican food. Man, I miss California! Jim Providence, RI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 23:33:44 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: Fortnight of Yeast, 2004-The October Surprise! Fortnight of Yeast, 2004 10.11.04 - 10.22.04 Dr. Tobias Fischborn-Dr. Forbes Waldrop I am pleased to announce that Dr.'s Tobias Fischborn and Forbes Waldrop have graciously agreed to host a 2 week period of answering yeast related questions from the members of the HBD, commencing October 11th, 2004 through October 22nd, 2004.. Dr.'s Fischborn and Waldrop, certainly among the most generous and prestigious of the yeast world's experts may be joined by others in answering your questions. Questions may be submitted to the HBD, 10.11.04 up to the posts/questions that appear in the HBD 10.22.04. Dr.'s Fischborn and Waldrop will answer any and all questions at their discretion... Standards to be followed..... 1. Questions MUST be sent to the HBD, submitted to post at hbd.org , and submitted with "Fortnight Of Yeast, 2004" in the subject line, with or without further subject heading. 2. Questions shall be accepted for response via HBD, 10.11.04 through 10.22.04. Dr.'s Fischborn/Waldrop have graciously allowed that follow-up may be required post the cut-off point, and they will deal with that on an as needed basis. 3. Reprinting of the Questions and Answers may be published by Lallemand/HBD and Dr.'s Fischborn/Waldrop, at their discretion, in any media. Attribution of name is granted by the questioner, without further publication of any e-mail addresses. Brewers ...we are fortunate to have Dr.Tobias Fischborn and Dr. Forbes Waldrop add their decades of expertise to what we at the HBD exist for..."Brewers Helping Brewers!" Cheers! Jethro Gump Rob Moline Lallemand 515-282-2739 brewery 515-450-0243 cell "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.772 / Virus Database: 519 - Release Date: 10/1/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:04:47 -0300 From: "Jonathan Westphal" <Wesjo at reg2.health.nb.ca> Subject: Re: warm lager fermentations FWIW, I routinely ferment my lagers fairly warm (the ambient temperature of my drafty old house is generally 60-64F), mainly because that way I can continuously keep 5 kegs lagering in my lagering unit (chest freezer with Johnson temperature controller). I have had very good results with DCL S-23 and S-189 - I find both of these strains produce very little fruitiness at these temperatures, and clean up nicely after a month of lagering at near freezing. JayDubya Hampton, NB, Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:59:08 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: DME Priming and False Bottoms. I don't recommend priming with DME. First I deeply doubt that there are any real advantages to be gained by doing it. It is such a small portion of the fermentables that there is little it can contribute beyond CO2. The disadvantages are a reduced level of carbonation control due to the variability of the extract's fermentability ( 55% to 85% ) and the yeast's ability to ferment it, and DME's reputation for producing rings around the bottle's neck. I mash in a 26 gallon Igloo Keg Kooler. I use a plastic false bottom that has 3/32 holes staggered on 5/32 centers. I can count on an extraction rate of 30 points per pound per gallon into the fermenter using this system. My scale is inspected by the county twice a year and my hydrometer is graduated in .0005 specific gravity units. I use a graduated stick to measure kettle volume and can hit three half barrels of wort just about exactly every time. Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:25:06 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Sweetened cider, Refractive Index/Hydrometer, warm lager fermentation Brewsters: Patrick asks for clarification of my comments on sweetening and kegging cider. >If one were to force carbonate 5 gallons of cider and keg, rather than bottle it, AND use fermentable sweeteners, would keeping it cold in the fridge stop the fermentation enough, or would >one still need to use sulfite? In my refrigerator fresh cider will still ferment. So I wouldn't trust cold alone to do it. In my recommendation I suggested BOTH sulfite and potassium sorbate for a reason. Sulfite reduces the activity of existing yeast and sorbate prevents the growth of additional yeast. Low temperature will reduce most yeast activity, but do you really want to take up your refrigerator space as a storage area? >If so, how much? Also, what's a good starting point for how much sweetener to add (am considering molasses)? Same question if you use non-fermentable sweeteners >such as Splenda, which doesn't bother me at all. I suggest you start at 2% sugar which will not be excessively sweet and will reduce the dryness of even tart cider. With Splenda, the <volume> of Splenda is the approximate substitute for a similar <volume> of white sugar, but about half or less of the weight. You can do as I do and make up a range of sweetenesses by starting with 4% and then dilution to various sweetnesses to get to the right level. Start with the least sweet in your tasting. I suggest you do not use molasses or dark sugar as this taste will dominate. At low levels of sweetness it will take on a metallic taste. As always, I suggest you run a trial mix and then taste your pick the next day before you make up the whole thing. - ----------------------- Bill, My compliments on your mathematical persistence. I am not sure if you somehow got to an answer using basics or the results are fudged by curve fitting equations based on actual measurements ( nothing wrong with that in the real world) Please read my earlier comments on this. During fermentation, alcohol is generated which has its own refractive index and at the same time changes the specific gravity of the beer because it hydrogen bonds to the water. A mixture of alcohol and water does not have the additive volume of the components. Unless Louis' equation and your other equations takes this into account it won't work, yet I suspect it will match Promash's numbers. The question is how does it compare with real measurements? - ------------------ Rowan, I thought your question was how could you ferment at a higher temperature than a classic Pils Yeast. The Czech Pils yeast Wyeast 2278 is the ultimate which I use when making pilsners. If you have a refrigerator to lager 5 gallons of brew as your comments indicate, why not do as I do and use a temperature controller ( see Williams' Brewing on the 'net) to get to the actual temperature that is optimal? I ferment in a 5 gallon plastic fermeter in the temperature controlled freezer and lager in my secondary. I would expect the cold storage of 2278 at refrigerator temperatures would produce a fine result and better than the Kolsch, since the Kolsch would not likely clean up the aldehydes and sulfur compounds at this temperature. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:17:05 -0400 From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce at aol.com> Subject: RE: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer (ERROR IN EARLIER POST) There was an error in a post I made yesterday regarding the formula for estimating the O.G. of a finished beer when hydrometer and refractometer readings are available. The correct formula should be: OG = (100*((194.5935 + (129.8*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((410.8815*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 790.8732))) + (2.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((937.8135*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 1805.1228)))))) / (100 + (1.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((937.8135*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 1805.1228))))) Again, OG is in degrees Plato, SG is the hydrometer reading in specific gravity, and R is the refractometer reading in Brix. I also corrected the formula in the body of the original post below so that there are no errors for anyone who copies it. Thanks to Thomas Eibner for pointing out the error. My apologies for any confusion. - -- Bill Pierce Cellar Door Homebrewery Burlington, Ontario BillPierce(at)aol.com - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pierce [mailto:BillPierce at aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:16 PM To: post at hbd.org Subject: RE: Formula for estimating O.G. with refractometer & hydrometer (Caution: this is geeky and involves math.) In HBD #4607 (Sept. 20, 2004), I posted the following: *********** <paste> I'm doing a little experimenting with a refractometer and a hydrometer and some commercial beers. In the January/February 2001 Zymurgy Louis Bonham provides a formula for calculating the specific gravity of a beer when the O.G. is known and a refractometer measurement is taken: SG = 1.001843 - (0.002318474*OG) - (0.000007775*OG^2) - (0.000000034*OG^3) + (0.00574*R) + (0.00003344*R^2) + (0.000000086*R^3) SG is expressed as specific gravity, OG in degrees Plato and R in Brix. He also provides a simplified version of the above formula: SG = (1.53*R) - (0.59*OG) In this equation both SG and OG are in degrees Plato. This implies that it's also possible to estimate the O.G. of a beer when you have both a refractometer reading and a hydrometer reading. Using the simplified version of the formula and solving for O.G., the formula is : OG = (2.593*R) - (1.695*SG) However, the results using the simplified version don't seem to be quite as accurate. I'm wondering if any of you beer math geeks have the more complex formula above solved for O.G., or software that can solve it. <end paste> ************** I received a couple of direct replies, as well as comments that this is already accomplished in ProMash. Someone also sent me an Excel spreadsheet with some complex Visual Basic macros that emulate the curve fitting features of MathCAD. I confess I never did get the spreadsheet to function correctly; the results were always garbage for me. What I found interesting was that no one attempted to solve the complex cubic equation for OG, not even my sister-in-law who has a Ph.D. in math and teaches it at the university level. However, I persevered and continued my musings undaunted. I found that much of the information for Louis Bonham's Zymurgy article comes from his post in HBD #2923: http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/2923.html#2923-13 In this post he provides formulas for alcohol by weight and real extract based on refractometer and hydrometer readings: ABW = 1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + (RI*((937.8135*RI) - 1805.1228)) RE = 194.5935 + (129.8*SG) + (RI*((410.8815*RI) - 790.8732)) It should be noted that the formula for ABW in Bonham's original post (which is repeated verbatim elsewhere) is in error. It is correct as stated above. The rightmost operator should be a minus sign (for subtraction) rather than a plus sign. This error was the cause of some frustration until I discovered it. As Bonham mentioned, the refractometer value in the formulas is in RI (refractive index) units rather than the more common Brix readings of most brewing refractometers. At the time of the post he had only tables for converting Brix to RI, but a formula has since been provided (by Domenick Venezia and others): RI = 1.33302 + (0.001427193*Brix) + (0.000005791157*Brix^2) The final formula of interest is for O.G. when the real extract and alcohol by weight are known (this is from DeClerck): OG (degrees Plato) = (100*(RE + (2.0665*ABW))) / (100 + (1.0665*ABW)) Combining these formulas, it's possible to solve for the estimated O.G. when the refractometer and hydrometer readings of a beer are known. The formula is: OG = (100*((194.5935 + (129.8*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((410.8815*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 790.8732))) + (2.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((937.8135*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 1805.1228)))))) / (100 + (1.0665*(1017.5596 - (277.4*SG) + ((1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))*((937.8135*(1.33302 + (0.001427193*R) + (0.000005791157*(R^2)))) - 1805.1228))))) OG is in degrees Plato, SG is the hydrometer reading in specific gravity and R is the refractometer reading in Brix. Obviously this formula is very complex and practical only when using a computer. A third order fit of the cubic equation at the beginning of this post solved for O.G. would be considerably easier to use. However, the results of the formula seem quite accurate. When I compare them to the refractometer utilities in ProMash, they agree to three significant digits; I ascribe any differences to rounding errors in the various conversions. No doubt this is of interest only to hardcore beer math geeks, and even they are probably satisfied using ProMash for the task. But inquiring minds occasionally want to know the source of the numbers. Brew on! - -- Bill Pierce Cellar Door Homebrewery Burlington, Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Doucette <cdoucette61 at yahoo.com> Subject: Solder Flux Oh, Noble and Wise HBDers, And anyone else who might care to answer. After a year and a half off of brewing I am getting ready for a come-back. I intend to jump right into all-grain brewing this time, since I have a couple of years of extract brewing under my belt. During my couple of years of lurking here, I have seen several HBDers recommend using "food grade flux" when soldering manifolds or other copper assemblies for use in brewing equipment. My question, where can I get food grade flux? I have the regular lead free antimony based flux for use in soldering water pipe, but have never seen a flux marked as food grade. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA. Chuck Doucette O'Fallon, Illinois Return to table of contents
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