HOMEBREW Digest #4634 Thu 21 October 2004

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


                  Beer, Beer, and More Beer
      Visit http://morebeer.com to show your appreciation!

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  FOY-2004 - Response-Starters/Cell Counts ("Rob Moline")
  Fortnight Of Yeast, 2004 /  Reusing Yeast ("William Erskine")
  more hose barbs ("Mike Sharp")
  What's The Point, Mr Meeker? ("Phil Yates")
  Re: March Fitting ("Christian Rausch")
  Re: Electric Brewery ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Tips for visiting Plzen (Pilsen)? ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  serial v parallel ("Dave Burley")
  Cutting the tops off of kegs ("Doug Moyer")
  Siebel Master of Styles course ("Keith Lemcke")
  More yeast philosophy ("zuvaruvi")
  wyeast storage time (" Robert Zukosky")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A Fortnight Of Yeast * * Presented by the HBD in cooperation with Lallemand * * Questions submission: 10/11 - 10/22/2004 * * include Fortnight Of Yeast, 2004 in your subject line * * More info http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4620.html#4620-3 * ********************************************************* Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning, and Spencer Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:47:46 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <jethrogump at mchsi.com> Subject: FOY-2004 - Response-Starters/Cell Counts FOY-2004 - Response-Starters/Cell Counts I'll start by saying thanks very much for the FOY opportunity. Recently I saw a note that a 2L starter made using a "vial" of yeast containing 30-60 billion cells would grow to 240 billion cells. Since the note appeared to be general, the assumption would have to be an aerated starter when made and then left to sit with no swirling or further aeration. A four to eight fold growth seems extremely high to me. Is this reasonable/achievable with no additional agitation or aeration? Cheers, Mike Dixon Mike, >From a normal fermentation in 12 P wort, aerated at the start, you will harvest 4-5 times the amount of yeast that you pitched at the beginning. An eight fold growth like you found is a bit high but not impossible. It always depends on the yeast strain but more important on the quality of your wort. A well aerated wort that has sufficient amounts of nitrogen and minerals should give you this kind of growth. Regards Forbes & Tobias - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:13:05 -0400 From: "William Erskine" <werskin at sympatico.ca> Subject: Fortnight Of Yeast, 2004 / Reusing Yeast I have begun to reuse liquid yeast from my homebrewing and was wondering whether it is better to save yeast from the primary fermentation or the secondary fermentation? I've heard that it is a decision whether to save "dirtier but vigourous yeast cells", or "cleaner but tired yeast cells". What is your opinion on this? keep in mind that I typically do not perform a washing procedure on the saved yeast. It is stored in a sterile Mason jar. When I am ready to brew, I make a starter, bring it back to life and pitch. Thank you very much for your time. William Erskine London, Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:25:35 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: more hose barbs Rob Dewhirst worries about the cost of stainless... "...but $16 is obnoxious considering the alternatives." Then get the nylon female NPT hose barb fitting from McMaster, pg 225, item 5228K17 or 5228K18 Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:21:05 +1000 From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com> Subject: What's The Point, Mr Meeker? >Regarding Dave Burley's recent comment on modelling sugar utilization >Dave, the point I have been addressing is that sugars are processed >in a particular sequence, not in parallel as you repeatedly asserted >in your advice to Fredrik: Sorry all, Whilst I consider Alan a good friend (though Ray tells me he makes awful beer- and votes for the wrong person), I have to ask, what the hell does any of this have to do with improving your beer quality? When ever good practical folk (like Jim Bermingham) take a spell from the HBD, it seems to me that the lunatics take over the asylum. Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:11:18 -0400 From: "Christian Rausch" <crausch at combinedenergyservices.com> Subject: Re: March Fitting I did not see the original post but, reading the description, you should be able to use these fittings from buyfittingsonline.com 16-D 1/2" NPT x 1/2 Barb = $3.76 15-D 1/2" NPT Coupling = $1.41 So if you don't mind a little extra length you can get setup for $5.17 Cheers, Christian Rausch www.rauschbiercompany.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:40:21 +0200 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: Electric Brewery On Wednesday, 13 October 2004 at 22:08:57 +1000, richard wrote: > Hi !! > > I'm in the process of graduating to all grain and am setting up the brewery > now. > > Batch size 5 gal 19 litres or 23 litres? > and I'd like to stay indoors - so my preference is an electric > brewery. I'm currently in Europe, and on Monday I saw an interesting looking gadget that might meet your needs. http://www.brumas.com/. The price looks a bit steep to me. Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:03:17 +0200 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Tips for visiting Plzen (Pilsen)? I'm currently in Prague (see http://www.lemis.com/grog/diary.html), and tomorrow I'll be continuing to Plzen (Pilsen), where I intend to visit the brewery and the museum. The web sites aren't overly detailed; does anybody who has been there before have any suggestions about what to look for, or anything else? Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:48:30 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: serial v parallel Brewsters, Alan Meeker says: "All sugars are not utilized in parallel. This is a well known phenomenon. The presence of certain sugars such as glucose keeps the yeast from manufacturing the very proteins needed for maltose and maltitriose utilization therefore, they will not be used until the glucose level drops below the inhibitory concentration. I cant put it any simpler than that." As I have often in the past, I will forgive what I perceive to be an arrogant tone and ask that you focus on the issue which you brought up. Fischborn and Waldrop said: "Sugars like glucose fructose and sucrose do not require their presence to have their transporters in the membrane, maltose and maltotriose do." I commented from the beginning of my discussion ( with /Fredrik) about glucose blocking certain pathways and many other comments relating to using a kinetic and not a misunderstood "energy" approach in /Fredrik's <fermentation modelling> work. As I said before in response to your comments, the point of my comments to /Fredrik had nothing to do with anything except his model design which needs to incorporate all pathways. As the environment changes the extant pathways will open, but the potential is always there, so you need to consider the possibilities of a parallel pathway in the <design>. The generation of the transporters influenced by the presence or absence of glucose is part of the kinetic equation. But as far as the discussion topic which you chose to open, about what happens in the yeast cell, as far as I know, glucose does not block the parallel assimilation of fructose or sucrose. If you have any evidence besides your opinion, I'd like to see it Sucrose is inverted to glucose and fructose extra-cellularly and the transporters for both gluose and fructose ( but I think not for sucrose in contast to the implication of the F&W comments) are already in the cell membrane, so, as far as I know, both can be assimilated simultaneously, albeit at different rates. This is consistent with the above comments by Fischborn and Waldrop saying that maltose and maltotriose assimilation can be blocked by the presence of glucose. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:32:18 -0400 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Cutting the tops off of kegs DIY Brewers, At one point recently, I asked for some direction at building a jig to use with a 4 1/2" angle grinder, to cut the top off of a keg. I didn't get any useful responses, but I did get a reply from someone asking me to pass on any info that I did get. Well, I forged ahead and rigged up something on my own. So, for any others that would like to see how I did it, please see: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrew-keg.html I don't have design drawings or detail. But, it should be pretty obvious what I did. If'n anyone is interested enough to want further detail, please let me know... Tinker on! Doug Moyer Troutville, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:12:28 -0600 From: "Keith Lemcke" <klemcke at siebelinstitute.com> Subject: Siebel Master of Styles course We have been getting calls from homebrewers asking for clarification about our Master of Beer Styles & Evaluation course prerequisites. While the course is designed for both commercial brewers and advanced homebrewers, those with basic experience in all-grain brewing, yeast handling & selection, and fermentation should have no problem understanding the content in this course. The last two courses have had a very diverse student base, and Ray Daniels, Randy Mosher & Lyn Kruger make sure that every student gets as much as possible out of this program. If you have any question about the course, you can contact me at klemcke at siebelinstitute.com or check the web site at http://www.siebelinstitute.com/course_desc/ . Keith Lemcke Siebel Institute of Technology Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:38:57 -0700 From: "zuvaruvi" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> Subject: More yeast philosophy Dave posted: >>me weather ( sic - DRB) yeast >colonize and sink >(sacch), or >colonize >>and >>me float >>me (brett), is largely a function of >cell density (specific gravity) >>and.... Dave >Chad Stevens would have us believe that "bottom" fermeting yeast are Dave >S.cerevisiae and "top" fermenters are Brettanomyces. Wrong. David, Where in my post did it say anything about top or bottom fermenting yeast? Where in the above quote do I even use the words "top" or "bottom?" You would have us believe that I was talking about top or bottom fermenting yeast? You read something into it that isn't there. You are talking about a fermentation characteristic "kraeusen/yeast break" and the question was about a post fermentation characteristic "flocculation." "Bottom" and "top" fermentation characteristics are phenomena that occur during full on ferment. I had nothing to say about that and didn't intend for it to enter into the conversation. My only point was that flocculation results in the majority of Saccharomyces sp. (especially "top and bottom fermenting") ending up on the bottom of the fermentor and many Brettanomyces/Dekkera sp. ending up floating on top of the media. I was using these two genus as what I thought were simple examples of yeast which either "flocc-up" or "flocc-down" and that in my humble opinion, in nature, this is probably largely the same mechanism and we only see a robust effect (up or down) because we artificially create huge volumes of growing/fermenting media. I could have used S. bayanus or a couple of Pichia sp. as examples (or Candida for that matter, but we don't want that thread rearing its' ugly head again) but these are unfamiliar to most brewers and as a result would have merely muddied the waters. Anyway, I made the grand assumption 99% of our readership where sophisticated enough in their understanding of Brettanomyces/Dekkera sp. and Saccharomyces sp. to not in any way confuse the two or my meaning. However, if at first glance you misunderstood my message (which by now is most certainly obscured by the current obfuscation), I'm sure others misunderstood as well. So, thank you for the clarification (and the spelling lesson; can't spell to save my life. Maybe it's because we got four inches of rain over the last four days so I've had weather on my brain. By the way, what is "yeast philosopy" and "fermeting" (sic, on you to)). In any case, I'll certainly "keep on brewin'!" Chad Stevens QUAFF San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:45:44 -0400 From: " Robert Zukosky" <Rzukosky at comcast.net> Subject: wyeast storage time I recently wacked a wyeast pack Bohemian 2124 dated 24 jan 2001. Six days later it has swelled. My questions are: 1. What condition can I expect of the yeast. 2. Can I expect mutations. If the yeast was pure at packageing and survived aging why would there be a change in dna. All packaged yeast I use will go into a starter. Thanks for your replies. Bob Zukosky Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 10/21/04, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96