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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Brewing for the pews ("Rob Dewhirst")
  Auctions (Philip J Wilcox)
  where do you live? (John Schnupp)
  Building a Temp Controller (Michael Fross)
  Sake (Jim Wilson)
  "food grade" urea....? (leavitdg)
  link of the week - zinc (Bob Devine)
  Re: re. Galv pipe and flocculation value ("-S")
  Rough surface inside conical ("Gary Smith")
  How much beer do you drink? (was: Gone Troppo) ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Electric Kettle- correct URLs ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Novembeerfest ("Jim Hinken")
  BONES Bash 2004 Results! (Bruce Millington)
  electric brew kettle (CRESENZI)


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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:51:44 -0600
From: "Rob Dewhirst" <rob at hairydogbrewery.com>
Subject: Brewing for the pews



Well auctioning off homebrew for your church may not be legal in the US,
but in the UK it's used to pay the bills:

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/3978293.stm>

"Proceeds from the sale of the ale will go towards the upkeep of the
cathedral."



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:34:50 -0500
From: Philip J Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: Auctions

Having some experience in this I guess I'll chirp in...

For the past several years I have been encouraged by my friends and 
colleagues to put
some of my beer in the Charity United Way auction here at work. Last year, 
I got off my
butt and finally got it together enough to put together a nice display of 
my beer bottle 
labels, for which I actually had beers available. I was even allowed to 
design a 6-pack
label on company time. Disguised as practice in doing displays and 
packaging naturally.
I put a 6-pack of empty bottles in the auction, and made a sign listing 
the available beers
and the fact I would fill 12 of them for the highest bidder. 

It was the hit of the auction! It had more bids than any other item! $36 
was the final bid.
So auctioned the bottles and artwork, and filled them for free! It also 
kept alcohol off company 
property. 

>From that success a friend and brewery supporter asked me to put another 
12- pack together 
for the Big Brothers Big Sisters auction this spring. Much smaller 
audience, but I saw an officer 
bidding on the beer there. This was an off-site auction, so I filled 
bottles, of only two varieties.
BBBS got $26 for those... better than Bell's so i wasn't complaining.

This years United Way silent auction was an even bigger success. I had two 
6-packs ready for display. 
as well as a sign saying You buy em, I'll fill them! Final bid for the 
12-pack was $46 Bucks!!!

In all cases I was given a card as for the indicated value to write-off my 
tax's.  I never thought it
would pass an IRS audit so I have never filed with one of these. So my 
advice is simple.

Relax, don't worry, and auction off a homebrew for charity!


Phil Wilcox
BJCP National Judge
The Poison Frog Home Brewer
Former Warden of the Prison City Brewers



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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 06:53:29 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: where do you live?

Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> had a p.s. on his last post
>PS - This illustrates why I suggest that people tell us where they 
>are.  It helps answer questions sometimes, and you may even find out 
>that there is a brewer you didn't know about right down the road. 

Good point.  Don't you usually have a semi-annual post to just this effect?

I just wanted to throw my .02 in about it.  Several years ago I did in fact
meet a neighbor via HBD and it was specifically specifically because I had my
included my state in my signature line.  Since then, I've taken to include my
town as well.  I'm on a Harley list as well.  On that list some people are
afraid to post their state and/or town for fear someone will track down their
motorcycle and steal it.  I used to be concerned about posting my info for the
same reason until I came to the realization that it if someone wanted to track
me down it wouldn't be hard to do (with or without my town/state).

So go on, tell us where you are.



=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
??? Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee


		


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Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:28:58 -0600
From: Michael Fross <michael at fross.org>
Subject: Building a Temp Controller

Hello everyone,

I have a chest freezer with a johnson's temp controller and it works fine.  But
in the homebrewing spirit, I think it would be really handy to have one that I
could simply hook up to my computer.

This way you could program it to gently raise or lower the temperature on a
schedule.  How convienent it would be to be able to say in three weeks, raise
the temperature from 50 to 70 over to days to perform a diactyel rest, then, in
3 days, slowly drop it down to 35.

I don't think I'll have any trouble with the code, but I'm quite challenged on
the electronics end.  Does anyone know of any plans for temp controllers or
have any ideas on where to start?

If I ever get it running, I'll post the code/plans for everyone.

Anyway, it might be a farfetched idea, but I think it bears some digging into.

Regards,

Frosty



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Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:29:32 -0800
From: Jim Wilson <jgwilson at adelphia.net>
Subject: Sake

I've brewed a couple of batches using Fred Eckhardt's recipes and process
and am really happy with the results.  I was pleased when Fred published
updates in the Sept/Oct 2004 Zymurgy.  At the end of the article, he
offered to share additional material if he got an e-mail request.  I've
sent a couple of requests. but haven't received a reply.  Does anyone know
another e-mail addy besides FredEckhardt at aob.org?

Thanks!

Jim Wilson

                  o          \o
   __o         /\          /
  `\ <>       `\ `>       `\  >
(*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)

I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.




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Date: Sat,  6 Nov 2004 11:49:40 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: "food grade" urea....?

What gives?  Why us LD Carlson selling "Yeast Nutrient: Food grad urea [and]
ammonium phosphate" if this stuff is bad for our health?

 ..Darrell




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Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:12:47 -0700
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: link of the week - zinc

The recent information by brewing experts highlighted
the importance of zinc in yeast.

It has long been known that yeast can't grow unless given
a source of a number of elements -- phosphate (for cell growth
and many organic compounds), potassium (to assist uptake of
phospate), calcium (helps with acid levels, cell growth, and
flocculation), magnesium (for cell growth and enzymes),
sulfur (for synthesis of some complex proteins), and trace
elements.

It is the "trace elements" -- zinc, copper, and manganese --
that are starting to get some attention in brewing research.

The problem of low zinc were accidently noticed when some
big brewers switched from copper boil kettles to stainless
steel ones and found that yeast suffered.  Hmmm.

A commercial product called "servomyces" works by pretreating
yeast with huge doses of zinc.  This extra-zinc yeast
adds the desired zinc as an end-around the German purity laws.
Otherwise, brewers can add zinc salts directly (zinc sulphate
or zinc chloride).

http://www.asbcnet.org/Meetings/2001/Abstracts/P-25.htm
http://www.yeastbank.com/features/servomyces_results.htm

Has anybody experimented with add zinc salts to a batch?
Shooting for an level of about 1 ppm or less might work
without causing some undesireable yeast byproducts.

Bob Devine
Riverton, UT


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Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:28:29 -0500
From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: re. Galv pipe and flocculation value

Hi Chad,

Sorry for the long delay - but time is at a premium right now.

>Show me wort in nature; you're not going to find it.

Not exactly wort, but barley and rye and other grains with a husk have a
great number of bacteria and yeasts present right under the husk - actually
pretty similar to wild yeasts & bacteria on the surface of fruits.  Why
yeast on raw grains ....  they intend to partake in some of the starch/sugar
present either during germination or after failed germination (dropping in a
puddle or a too rain soaked field for example).  Bottom line - wild yeast
can and do live off grain.  Some of the bacteria have exogenous
alpha-amylase which nearly cinches the case.

> Secondly, weather yeast colonize and sink (sacch), or colonize and float
> (brett), is largely a function of cell density (specific gravity) and
> (incidental) ability to entrain co2 (ale vs. lager) and the number of buds
> in a chain....

Not sure I follow you here Chad.   Non-flocculent yeasts fail to produce
clear beer - that's the issue..   Obviously the heavier than media yeasts
settle to some extent but that doesn't prevent minor forces (likely colloid
syspension, but that's arguable) keep enough yeast in suspension to prevent
clarification.

> Flocculation merely describes
> what we observe occurring in an artificial medium, wort.

Right - I agree that the biological purity and density of common wort are
"unnatural".

> But, regardless of
> weather it floats or sinks, "sticking together" provides obvious natural
> benefits with regard to survival: trapped intercellular nutrient, residual
> moisture, co-existing with non-predatory partners..

Moisture perhaps, but the others are arguable.   Any advantage of
intercellular nutrient (I assume you mean consuming autolysis products of
dead cells) must be compared to  the negative effects of coincident
competition and damage from released enzymes capable of the autolytic
membrane damage.   Protection from predators ... maybe but I'd like to see
some predator identified that would be stopped by this tactic.   I'd expect
extracellular zymase or similar from a gram-negative attacker or something
along those lines,  That's not often seen I think.

>  And when you take into
> account these mechanisms are occurring in drops of sap, in grapes that
have
> been penetrated by insects, in apricots that have fallen to the ground and
> ruptured.colonization is a perfectly sensible strategy.  I think
> flocculation in wort is merely incidental to natural colonization
> mechanisms; an assertion I can make as long as yeast philosophy seams to
be
> prevailing over yeast physiology....

I think I missed your point here.  Yeast must actually expend energy to
create the lectin-like proteins and activate the lectin receptors which
cause FLO1 type flocculation - so it's extremely unlikely to just be a quirk
of yeast genetics like the human appendix..  Most wild yeasts are 'dusty'
non-flocculent types and these dusty yeast don't seem to suffer from their
lack of flocculation under normal conditions (not wort of course).  Common
brewing yeast can be made less flocculent over a few score generations by
selection.  [There was an article in EBC around 1989 or so where the author
demonstrated the change in flocculation characteristics by selection over a
dozen brews or so].

No - I just don't see a clear survivai advantage exept that it causes
brewers to feed that phenotype more wort.

 -Steve

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "zuvaruvi" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
To: <post at hbd.org>; <-s@adelphia.net>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 11:11 PM
Subject: re. Galv pipe and flocculation value


> Kent says:
>
> >and the building inspector will make you do it all
> >over again in black pipe.
>
> Galv, black, green...it's all that heavy steel stuff (insert Tim Allen
> grunting ape noises).  Yes, black pipe, of course; thank you for saving me
> from a fate worse than permit payment.
>
> Steve asks:
>
> >Now if someone would explain the survival value of yeast flocculation to
> >me,
> >please. Where's the sense in non-sexual cells calling a 'huddle' at the
> >start of dormancy? Brewer & vintner's appreciate this property but
> >couldn't have influenced it (much).
>
> Just talking out my wazoo here..  First, we're looking at the wrong media,
> wort, must....  Show me wort in nature; you're not going to find it.
> Secondly, weather yeast colonize and sink (sacch), or colonize and float
> (brett), is largely a function of cell density (specific gravity) and
> (incidental) ability to entrain co2 (ale vs. lager) and the number of buds
> in a chain....  (And I realize flocculation and colonization are two
> different mechanisms but bear with me here).  Flocculation merely
describes
> what we observe occurring in an artificial medium, wort.  But, regardless
of
> weather it floats or sinks, "sticking together" provides obvious natural
> benefits with regard to survival: trapped intercellular nutrient, residual
> moisture, co-existing with non-predatory partners..  And when you take
into
> account these mechanisms are occurring in drops of sap, in grapes that
have
> been penetrated by insects, in apricots that have fallen to the ground and
> ruptured.colonization is a perfectly sensible strategy.  I think
> flocculation in wort is merely incidental to natural colonization
> mechanisms; an assertion I can make as long as yeast philosophy seams to
be
> prevailing over yeast physiology....
>
> Now you can argue that after 5000 years of brewing, wort has affected
> natural selection of yeast sp.  I won't argue one way or the other.  But
> having five gallons of 18-22% nutrient/ 7% alcohol wort floating overhead
> seems a far more hospitable environment than a 0% nutrient/ 8.4% alcohol
> environment.
>
> Is yeast at the bottom of a vat of beer truly dormant?  Were they truly
> dormant, autolysis wouldn't occur.  Allowing a certain percentage of
slowly
> metabolized nutrient to remain in solution makes perfect sense with regard
> to longevity if yeast are never completely dormant while in liquid.  I'm a
> yeast rancher; I've kept about 20 different strains viable under beer for
a
> year or more at a time.  True dormancy may only occur in dry environments.
>
> Being in the company of true yeast greatness for the next fortnight, I'm
> sure to be corrected swiftly and surely if my wazoo is too far askew.
>
> FWIW,
>
> Chad Stevens
> QUAFF
> San Diego
>
>



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Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 19:57:16 -0600
From: "Gary Smith" <Gary at doctorgary.net>
Subject: Rough surface inside conical

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone using one of the spun 
hoppers for their conical has found the scratches 
to harbor bacteria? 

Since people replace glass carboys & plastic 
fermenters if the interior gets scratched, it 
seems like the thousands of scratches inside the 
spun conical might be a problem as well.

I am going to try to polish mine although it will be 
a lot of work.

Thanks,

Gary



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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:50:27 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: How much beer do you drink? (was: Gone Troppo)

On Wednesday,  3 November 2004 at 21:45:43 +1100, Phil Yates wrote:
> I liked Graham's description of how the far northern inhabitants survive the
> wet season and actually get some sleep. Graham comments that he went through
> 9 litres of beer in three days during one humid patch.
>
> So what? Is this supposed to be an example of constraint? Surely you meant
> 90 litres of beer in three days, Graham?

Yes, I was wondering about this too.  OK, it's a little more than I
drink down here, but the weather at Wantadilla is cooler.

That begs the question, though: how much do *you* drink?  Is it true
that the Australians drink more than the Americans?  I've been keeping
statistics for the last year or so, mainly to get a better handle on
how often I need to brew (see http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/today
for the gory details of the last 6 months), and it seems that I manage
between 1.5 and 2.5 litres a day.  The missing statistics for the last
few weeks are because I've been away for that time.

There, I've shown you mine.  Show me yours.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:49:52
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Kettle- correct URLs

Boy did I goof-up the URLs in a prior post on electric boilers.  The
correct ones are chattanooga.net/~cdp/boilold/boiler.htm and
chattanooga.net/~cdp/boilnew/boilnew.htm.  My apology to all who tried the
bum URLs. 


c.d. pritchard     cdp at chattanooga.net 
http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/



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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:51:44 -0800
From: "Jim Hinken" <jim.hinken at verizon.net>
Subject: Novembeerfest 

This year's Novembeerfest Homebrewing Competition was held Saturday,
November 7, at Larry's Homebrew Supply in Kent, WA.  Congratulations to the
following brewers for their winning beers

Lori Brown, Brier WA.  Best of Show with her Belgian Dubbel.
Paul Cervenka, Seattle WA.  2nd Place Best of Show with his Alekovat IPA.
Robert Moore, Seattle WA.  3rd Place Best of Show with his Tokay Raisin
Mead.

Thanks to all the brewers who entered the competition, to the judges and
stewards for their time and effort, and to Larry for hosting the
competition.  Complete results will be posted as www.brewborthers.org.

Jim Hinken





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Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 19:33:38 -0500
From: Bruce Millington <bmillington at verizon.net>
Subject: BONES Bash 2004 Results!

The Brewers of the Northeast Section would like to thank all of the 
judges, stewards, and sponsors who made the BONES Bash 2004 such a great 
success.  BONES would especially like to thank the Nodding Head Brewery 
and Restaurant for their gracious hospitality, service, and tasty 
brews.  The results of the Bash are now available for viewing at 
www.hbd.org/bones/
Thanks again to everyone involved, and see you next year!

Bruce Millington
Judge Coordinator


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Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:54:59 -0800 (PST)
From: CRESENZI <cresenzi at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: electric brew kettle

I am planing on making an electric brew boiler. So far
I plan to use a 40 qt ss pot as the kettle. I will
also use two 120 volt low density heater elements. I
am trying to keep this as simple as possible. I am
wondering can I use regular fan & light dimmer
switches to control the elements temp? And if so if I
had to get 240v elements could I use four switches one
on each leg? What would happen If I turned of one leg
to a 240v element during the boil? Any feedback would
be helpful.

Anthony Cresenzi
Ellington CT


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