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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Copper ("Tom Clark")
  re: Barley crusher (David Thompson)
  over-spiced beer (Ralph Davis)
  Homegrown hop storage question. (Joe Gibbens)
  Re: Barley Crusher (Ed Jones)
  Re: over-spiced beer ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Mmmm, Spicey! ("Pat Babcock")
  Re: copper v. stainless (Jeff Renner)
  Re: copper v. stainless (Steven Parfitt)
  electric turkey fryer (mo-rents-y)
  RE: Barley Crusher, Plus Mash Stirring Question ("Steve Smith")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:56:28 -0500
From: "Tom Clark" <rtclark555 at charter.net>
Subject: Copper

In the past I have used a copper coil to cool my wort by submerging the coil
in the wort and running cold water through the coil.  I generally put the
coil in place while the wort is still boiling for about the last five
minutes of the boil: to sanitize the coil..  Then I am able very quickly
cool the wort.

I completely quit brewing because all my brews kept coming out too bitter.

Could the copper have been contributing to the bitterness?

I also have moved and we are now on a completely different water system.
So, perhaps the water is the problem.  I know that without filtering, I
cannot get past the odor and taste of excessive chlorine.    When I
complained to one of the water utility's board members his answer was "Well
if you can smell the chlorine, you know it's safe".   Apparently, even
though he is a registered nurse, he doesn't know chlorine can be deadly;
that's why it is such an effective sanitizer.   But, if a little chlorine
does a good job, a whole bunch certainly doesn't do a better job of making
the water safe!

We now have a filter which is very effective so perhaps with the filtered
water I could do better.

I would like to get back into brewing but I don't like this excessive
bitterness.

What say you on the copper?

Thanks

Tom Clark





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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:38:34 -0600
From: David Thompson <david at dtphoto.com>
Subject: re: Barley crusher

Steve Smith asks about the Barley Crusher.

I got one last year.. it's been run by hand and by drill.   It's a superb 
product and I highly recommend it. I used an automotive gap tool to make 
marks at my preferred adjustment points and it does a real nice job of 
crushing.  I run the grains twice, once at a wide gap, and again at a 
narrow gap. I get great results each time I brew......


Dave

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It 
helps if you have some kind of football team or some nuclear weapons, but 
at the very least, you need a beer."
 - Frank Zappa



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Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:08:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Ralph Davis <ralphwdavis at yahoo.com>
Subject: over-spiced beer

I think my Christmas brew this year (a strong, spiced
doppel-bock lager) is overly spiced.  It's got the
usual mulling spices, cinamon, cloves, nutmeg, ginger
and a bit of cardamon.  I added these after boiling
them an hour, at the end of the wort's boil.   Anyone
know a way to tone it down a bit? (its in the 2ndary
fermentation now).  

I was thinking of adding more Polyclar (added a
tablespoon to 5 gallons already), but I'm wondering if
there is another way...or any way at all to make it a
bit more subtle?

=====
Ralph W. Davis
ralph at thedavisfactor.com or
ralphwdavis at yahoo.com
(c) 703-507-9380


		


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:18:53 -0600
From: Joe Gibbens <jgibbens at gmail.com>
Subject: Homegrown hop storage question.

Is it possible to store homegrown hops by vaccuum packaging and
freezing, but not drying them?

Joe Gibbens
Hopedale IL


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 05:20:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Ed Jones <cuisinartoh at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Barley Crusher

Steve Smith asked,  
"I was hoping that someone might let me know if they have been happy
with  this mill, or has any thoughts about its performance compared to
the Valley or JSP.  As usual, I have no affiliation with the company...
I just want to know if it's a recommended product.  Thank you."

I've had mine for about 3 years now and I would recommend it. Honestly,
I've never really bothered with adjusting the gap. If I'm milling a lot
of wheat malt, I will run the grist through the mill twice. The cost,
construction, and hopper (as you mentioned) were the primary reasons
for my purchasing the mill. I operate it with a cordless drill. You can
see a picture of my grain mill mounted to a table at:
http://ironacres.com/brewery.html

Ed

=====
Ed Jones - Columbus, Ohio U.S.A - [163.8, 159.4] [B, D] Rennerian

"When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment,
I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am
confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery."
  - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:31:27 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd-mod at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Re: over-spiced beer

Ralph Davis asks how to save his over-spiced Xmas beer.  I've got one 
word: "Time".  With time, the spices will tone down and blend together. 
  If you don't want to wait, brew another beer without spices and blend.

=S


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:21:07 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Mmmm, Spicey!

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Ralph Davis bemoans his over-spiced Christmas beer...

Back in the Days of Yore, the days in which I actually BREWED beer,  three 
monks - Brother Pat, Brother Rich, and Brother Mike - came together to brew a 
Christmas ale originally called Santa's Bunwarmer, but later renamed to 
Nightmare Before Christmas. 

Due to various distractions and other calamities, the brewing session was not 
quite to "recipe" (though, in hindsight, the recipe could have been one of the 
calamities - Just kidding, Brother Rich!:^) A taste of the wort nearly did in 
a nearby swordsman who stopped in the midst of battle to quench his thirst, 
and the early beer had a very Tide-like palate (yes, Tide. As in laundry 
detergent). 

Never willing to condemn a brew without a fair trial, I held on to this beer 
for months this beer, trying it now an again to see what had become of it. 
Most of these trials were disappointing, though you could detect a "mellowing" 
of the brew with each passing month. Then one day in late January of the 
following year, I drew a pint of the foul liquid to find...
   ...something quite pleasant! The detergent-like quality had given way to a 
smooth licorice, with hints of cinnamon and ginger. Quite enjoyable and, 
though not the hit of the preceding year's Chritmas shindig, it was enjoyed by 
more than a few at a February dinner-dance we attended! Nowhere near a session 
beer - a bit too powerful, and the flavors still a bit intense, it was 
nonetheless an interesting and enjoyable beer!

(The beer of which I speak is chronicled an my old-and-abandonned webpage:
http://hbd.org/pbabcock/oldsite/blow.off.from.hell.html)

Spencer hits the nail squarely on the head: give it time. Unless (and, 
sometimes, even if...) a beer demonstrates a horrible infection, or extreme 
defect, time can create from it something which we could not. Let it age. I 
let Nightmare sit around several months before it became a drinkable and 
enjoyable brew. (But, as Brother Mike and many others can attest, that Muchos 
Grassy-ass Vienna never did become anything more than it was - even ten years 
after...)

- --

See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock at hbd.org


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:03:59 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: copper v. stainless

Raj B Apte <raj_apte at yahoo.com> writes

>For me, the biggest problem is scorching in my thin, stainless pot. 
>(I use a direct-fired mash tun). So I've considered 2 approaches
>
>1. solid copper pot ... 2. copper metal spray.

There is another obvious choice - aluminum.  I brew in three 38 liter 
5 mm thick aluminum stock pots with added spigots.  They are thick, 
durable, light, inexpensive and have superior heat transference. 
Mine are Korean manufactured.  I bought them back in the early 90s 
and they cost something like $80 each with lids, as I recall.

The main problem is that they don't hold heat very well, which is, of 
course, the other side of the heat transference coin.  That's no 
problem for the boiler, but I've insulated the mash tun with foil 
bubble wrap and don't use the hot liquor tun for sparge water any 
more.  After I've heated it, I transfer it to an Igloo cooler.

Aluminum health worries should not be a worry.  Even if aluminum were 
of concern, it has been shown (Brewing Techniques article) that wort 
boiled in SS and aluminum have identical aluminum levels, and it's 
even lower than that of the brewing water.  Apparently it's complexed 
and precipitated with the trub.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:30:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: copper v. stainless

In HBD 4648 Raj Responds to Paul who is looking at
Copper vs Stainless...


>Hi Paul,

>I have also been thinking along these lines. For me,
>the biggest problem is scorching in my thin,
>stainless pot. (I use a direct-fired mash tun). So 
> I've considered 2 approaches

>1. solid copper pot.  
 ...snip...

>2. copper metal spray. 

 ...snip...

How about another (probably cheaper) solution.

3. Electroplate copper on SS.

I've had several motorcycle parts chrome plated in the
past at a local plater.

Since the base layers for Chrome are copper then
nickle, I would bet that a chrome plating operation
could do a reasonable built up of copper for heat
distribution  at a moderate cost..

Steven




		


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:21:49 -0600
From: mo-rents-y <morentsy at gmail.com>
Subject: electric turkey fryer

I currently brew on an electric stove. Wouldn't one of these electric
turkey fryers be an improvement in terms of the number of BTUs?

http://www.turkey-fryers-
online.com/electric_turkey_fryer.html

- -- 
Get Firefox! - The safer, faster browser at
www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/


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Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:51:20 -0700
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: RE: Barley Crusher, Plus Mash Stirring Question

I would like to thank the many people (at least 10) who responded to my 
request for feedback on the Barley Crusher malt mill.  I did not respond to 
all of you individually for lack of time, but since all replies indicated 
real satisfaction with the product, I'm gonna get me one 'o them suckers!

I do have one other question in light of my inexperience at all-grain 
brewing (I've made only two batches so far).  At what point (length of time) 
does someone stir the mash too much?  Because I batch sparge, I also wonder 
what the optimal stir time is during the sparge (first after adding sparge 
water, and then a few minutes before recirculating) .  I realize that 
because I mash in a 10-gallon cylindrical Rubbermaid beverage cooler, to 
which no additional heat can be applied except via additions of more hot or 
boiling water, that I am limited as to how much time I spend stirring 
because due to exposure to the air my mash temperature will eventually drop 
below target.  Other than that, does one want to spend about 2 - 3 minutes 
stirring say, 11 lb. of grain at the beginning of the mash, plus another 2 
minutes midway through the mash, and during the sparge stir just long enough 
(another 1 - 2 minutes?) to suspend the remaining sugars?  Does too much 
stirring result in extraction of nasty tannins?  I realize there are 
different opinions held on this subject, and that any answer reflects a 
brewer's personal craft, but there must be some scientific guidelines... I 
have not had great success in researching this question.

Thanks. Oh, my first two batches, though below the target OG, turned out 
very well...
Steve Smith 




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