HOMEBREW Digest #4657 Mon 22 November 2004

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  Distilling Barley Wine ("Ian Thorn")
  IBU's and Cooling ("David Craft")
  Another question about copper ("Paul Fisher")
  Re: Bitterness from late addition hops (Fred Johnson)
  ISFET Meters ("A.J deLange")
  RE: Distilling Barley Wine (K.M.)" <kmuell18@visteon.com>
  RE: Immersion vs Counterflow Chillers (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: Bitterness from late addition hops (Grant Family)
  Re: distilling ("Haborak, Kevin")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:49:45 +1100 From: "Ian Thorn" <ayeupmeduck at hotmail.com> Subject: Distilling Barley Wine > My Christmas barley wine is not carbonating. It was brewed early January > and > kept in secondary in a fridge for 6 months at approx. 40 degrees and bottled > in late June. Late July I opened a bottle to taste and it tasted great but > was flat. I opened all bottles and added a sugar syrup and champagne yeast > starter. In September it was still flat but tasted sweeter and there was a > thin layer of dark crud at the bottom of the bottle. I was using some hootch > printed overrun caps that could possibly be the culprit as I think the crud > signifies that fermentaion took place. I think it is going to be too much > effort to save this batch and rather than pouring it the drain I am > contemplating distilling it using a pressure cooker, it is already 14% abv. > Has anybody tried this? Any ideas on what results to expect? Could I > possibly end up with a malt > whiskey for Christmas? > Hi, I think that would be a bad idea, some friends of mine once did a similar thing (distilled a porter, because they could), from what I heard it was really bad, all the hop aromas were concentrated and it was not drinkable or useable in the slightest way (and they used a proper still at Uni) Ian, Sydney, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:03:43 -0500 From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net> Subject: IBU's and Cooling Fred, I use an immersion chiller and feel that I am getting about 5 IBU's more than what Promash tells me I should get. I have discussed this with several members of my club who have reviewed my recipes and techniques. We feel that the hot wort continues to extract IBU's , mostly from the late addition hops, until it reaches some magic temperature. Since I chill the entire wort at one time with an immersion chiller I am getting these additional IBU's. Mmmmmm, I have not thought about adding my last additions once the wort has cooled some. Any thoughts on this out there?? I have adjusted my recipes accordingly.........for now. David B. Craft Club Secretary Battleground Brewers Guild Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery Greensboro, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:41:14 -0500 From: "Paul Fisher" <snapfisher at att.net> Subject: Another question about copper I've been following the discussion last week about using a copper chiller, and something has been bugging me for years.... When I use a copper immersion chiller, it always comes out of the wort sparkling clean. So where did the tarnish go? In the beer? I figure this has no real effect on the beer, but what is the tarnish? Is it just oxygen bound up with the copper that gets scrubbed off by the boiling? I also noticed the same effect in my homemade mash tun which uses a copper tube as the spout. The inch or so that is exposed in the mash is much cleaner than the rest. Paul - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.794 / Virus Database: 538 - Release Date: 11/10/2004 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:03:27 -0500 From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com> Subject: Re: Bitterness from late addition hops Dear Stuart: Thanks to Stuart for his reply to my post regarding late hop additions and bitterness contributions. I must disagree with his assertion that the hops sitting in the hot wort will not contribute much bitterness after flame out. I believe isomerization is primarily a function of time and temperature. And the hops settling to the bottom of the kettle will not affect this. They are bathed in wort. Besides the alpha acids aren't at the bottom of the kettle. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they are dissolved or at least emulsified in the wort. If it takes 30 minutes to drain the kettle, your flameout addition has just become a significant bittering addition. Likewise, the hops you added at 30 minutes have now contributed close to their full alpha acid potential to the bitterness. Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:07:29 +0000 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: ISFET Meters A couple more questions on pH electrodes have come up. First: ISFET (Ion Selective Field Effect Transistor) is a technology that has been around for 10 years or more but only fairly recently has become commonly available at tolerable prices. Most of the big name manufacturers/suppliers (Orion, Omega etc.) now offer ISFET electrodes. When a conventional electrode is reaching the end of its service life the first symptom is usually slowed response. At this point the electrode is typically "rejuvenated" by processes which depend on the electrode but usually involve cleaning or replacing the junction and cleaning the surface of the glass bulb - both according to the manufacturers instructions. The degree of agressiveness used depends on the state of decline of the electrode. Rejuvenation is usually repeated a few times but with dimininshing returns and eventually it's time for a new electrode. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:13:22 -0500 From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com> Subject: RE: Distilling Barley Wine Alan Colton in Belize (lucky guy) asks about distilling his Barley Wine. My guess (complete guess, take it as such!) is that the bitterness from the hops might give you problems. However, I've never distilled anything, so I could be VERY wrong as only the alcohol should carry over. I'd love to hear about the results! Check out http://www.homedistiller.org/ for some good information on distilling. I read some of it, and it seems sound. My new filter at work won't let me open it though! Kevin Canton, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 04:56:09 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Immersion vs Counterflow Chillers Fred Johnson is pondering chiller effect on final bitterness >I have brewed using an immersion chiller for many >years and have recently switched to a counter flow >chiller. I have noticed that my beers are more bitter >than in the past since the switch, and this is >undoubtedly due to the fact that the wort remains at >a high temperature-- a temperature at which the alpha >acids isomerize--for a longer period of time during >the counterflow cooling than when an immersion >chiller is used. ...snip... One thing I have done is to keep my old immersion chiller, and use it in addition to my CFC. I take the water out from my CFC and feed it into the immersion chiller. Water out of it is put in buckets to use for clean up. Nice hot water works well for cleaning the half barrel kegs.... Steven ===== Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian "There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 00:35:11 +1100 From: Grant Family <grants at netspace.net.au> Subject: Re: Bitterness from late addition hops Hi all, (Sorry if this appears twice). Fred wrote: >I have brewed using an immersion chiller for many years and have >recently switched to a counter flow chiller. I have noticed that my >beers are more bitter than in the past since the switch, and this is >undoubtedly due to the fact that the wort remains at a high >temperature-- a temperature at which the alpha acids isomerize--for a >longer period of time during the counterflow cooling than when an >immersion chiller is used. Firstly, I don't have any numbers, nor much experience in this area (although I have just switched from immersion to CF chiller). BUT, I'm not convinced that much isomerization of alpha acids would be happening after the gas/element is switched off. My understanding is that isomerization has a lot to do with the physical action of the boil as it does with temperature. Also, when you're using a counterflow chiller, the hops and break material quickly settle out and this would surely limit isomerization as well. So while there would be SOME additional isomerization happening while the late hops are sitting there in hot wort, I don't think it's anything that would be noticeable. I was playing with the numbers in Promash (using Rager hop formula) and even if you decided to compensate for the long soak in hot wort by adding 5-10mins to the time the hops were boiled, the level of AA isomerization doesn't go up much. It was around 5 IBUs when I tried it with a Pilsner recipe of mine with lots of late hops. So I don't think that the extra bitterness you've noticed in your brews post-CFC are primarily from additional isomerization. There are other things going on here and someone else may have ideas. One thing I will say is that with a number of official and unofficial IBU calculators and formulae out there, not to mention the myriad variations of personal method that would effect bitterness, not to mention personal perception differences, the accuracy of any recipe is limited. I think you are right, however, that cooling time is not considered by homebrewers and I think this is especially true in the case of hop flavour and aroma perception. I've often wondered why bitterness is calculated (IBUs), while hop aroma and flavour is not. Given that hop aroma is simpler than AA isomerization - perhaps as simple as evaporation of hop oils based on temperature - the use of a CFC is going to really effect how much hop aroma remains. But I think that it's too complicated and I'll have a beer now. Cheers Stuart Grant, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:07:05 -0500 From: "Haborak, Kevin" <KHaborak at golder.com> Subject: Re: distilling I definitely would not try to distill the beer using a pressure cooker. Take the safe route and freeze it. Skim the ice off the top as it freezes. Return to table of contents
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