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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Acetaldehyde troubles ("Byron Towles")
  to keep or not to keep...that is the question (Darrell.Leavitt)
  acetaldehyde beer (Randy Ricchi)
  Rootbeer (Randy Ricchi)
  Old Lambic Digest archive ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Acetaldehyde ("A.J deLange")
  Re: Gift giving ideas ("Mike Racette")
  Re: White Labs vials ("Greg R")
  Re: How Much is Too Much Acetaldehyde? ("Dave Larsen")
  re: White Labs vials ("Jason Henning")
  Re: Welded Fittings (Kent Fletcher)
  Re: White Labs Vials ("HomeBrewUSA")
  External thermostats (Chris Collier)
  What is starch content of a pLambic? (RiedelD)
  high temp fermentation (Jeffrey Will)
  Welded fittings on a kettle ("Mike Sharp")
  Beer gas folly (DakBrew)
  Belgians (and re-using yeast) (leavitdg)


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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:40:59 -0600
From: "Byron Towles" <beer.man at cox.net>
Subject: Acetaldehyde troubles

In digest #4668, Bob Barrette laments his CAP with much acetaldehyde.

Bob, is it possible you could claim your beer was Beechwood aged?
If the members of the party are typical american lawnmower beer consumers,
they might like that idea. "Hey, old Bob even made this one beechwood
aged like Bud."

Or, for that matter, since the people drinking it probably aren't going to 
be
experienced judges and know what off flavors to taste for, you could simply
tell them that the flavor is supposed to be there, if it comes up at all.

Of course, all this is pure speculation, as the degree of Acetaldehyde will
determine how much or how little selling of the idea is required.

Just my 2 cents from way down yonder in New Orleans.

Byron Towles 




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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 07:39:16 -0500
From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu
Subject: to keep or not to keep...that is the question





I say keep the brew with the aldehyde...don't serve...You can mix it with
better stuff at home.  I have served some that I was not pleased with and
it definately created a mind-set in some about the quality of homebrew in
general, and mine in particular.  Once this attitude sets in, it is hard to
counteract...

 ..Darrell



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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 07:58:52 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: acetaldehyde beer

Bob Barrett brewed a CAP with too much acetaldehyde.

Bob, I'm just curious..what yeast did you use? A couple  years ago I
decided to give dry yeast another try, and brewed a lager with S23 dry
lager yeast (Saflager). That beer tasted and smelled like green apple
cider.

I'll bet that crowd would like it.To protect your reputation, just make
the disclaimer right away that you aren't happy with it.



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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:10:34 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Rootbeer

Ed Jones is asking about rootbeer recipes.

I've been making rootbeer from extracts for quite awhile for my wife. I
use the Rainbow brand of extract. The secret, at least for me, is to use
a mixture of rootbeer extract and cream soda extract.
One bottle of Rainbow extract is 2 oz. and is supposed to be sufficient
for 4 gallons of soda. I use a half bottle each of rootbeer and cream
soda in a 3 gallon batch which I mix directly in my 3 gallon soda keg
and force carbonate. Use 2.5 #'s of sugar, or substitute Splenda if you
prefer. The Splenda version will not be as sweet or as full bodied as
the sugar version.

Rootbeer extract has juniper as one of it's flavorings, and I think it's
too overpowering if you use just rootbeer extract. That's why I mix it
with the cream soda extract, which has a  very strong vanilla flavor.
The two flavors complement each other nicely.

I'd like to try other brands of extracts but they aren't available
locally.





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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:46:53 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Old Lambic Digest archive

The Lambic digest archive is alive and well, although not searchable (at 
least not through Google) at

http://www.homeroastnbrew.info/

=Spencer


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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:00:16 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Acetaldehyde

Acetaldehyde is very volatile so you might try scrubbing it out with CO2 
(this is what should happen gradually with lagering - you will just try 
to speed it up). Assuming the beer is in a corny pressurize to say 30 
psig, leave for a couple of days to let the gas dissolve, bleed down to 
5 or less and repeat tasting as you go until the acetaldehyde is at an 
acceptable level or it's clear this scheme isn't working.

A.J.


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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:30:44 -0700
From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com>
Subject: Re: Gift giving ideas


I ordered some Arrogant Bastard pint glasses from Stone Brewing and they
have some equally arrogant shirts and such as well. I think it was
www.arrogantbastard.com

For my wine friends I ordered the "Don't break the bottle" wine bottle
puzzle which is a wooden contraption that you have to figure out first
before you can get to the wine. A search for the above name will give lots
of sources for this gift.

Just placed both orders yesterday, so can't comment on the service or
quality of either yet.



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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:50:50 -0600
From: "Greg R" <gmrbrewer at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: White Labs vials

"jhandy" asked about using half a tube of yeast for the starter and saving 
the rest for use later.  Yes, I have done it successfully several times, 
having first seen it suggested on the HBD.  No problems with contamination, 
although that risk exists if you are not reasonably careful.  But I still 
prefer to re-pitch the yeast from the primary, no starter required.

Greg in Chicago



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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:09:00 +0000
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How Much is Too Much Acetaldehyde?

This is what I've learned over the years.  Starting out, when you serve the 
first few beers that you made to your friends, you often say, "Oh my God, 
this is the best beer ever made."  Usually they grimace as they drink it and 
look at you like you are smoking crack.

Years of experience later, when you serve beer to your friends that you've 
brewed, you often warn them first about all the flaws and problems with the 
beer and they usually say, "Oh my God, this is the best beer ever made."

I say serve it.

Just my take.

Dave
Tucson, AZ



>I made 10 gallons of CAP for a friends Christmas party to try to
>satisfy the non craft beer drinking crowd.  There is more acetaldehyde
>present than I would like and was wondering if I should not even bring
>it to the party.  I thought it may subside with some lagering, but
>after 5 weeks at 34F it's still there.  Please understand that those
>that would be drinking this homebrew are not very beer knowledgeable.
>Busch Light, Bud Light and maybe Labatt would be the closest any of
>them would come to beer nirvana.  My options are to go ahead and serve
>it, keep it at home and drink it myself (I think it would be around
>for a while) or dump it.  I'm concerned about my homebrew reputation.
>In the past my beer has been well received at parties mainly because
>it has always been very high quality beer.  This one is not exactly up
>to my standards, but then again the guests may not notice.  It's in
>the aroma and the flavor, but who knows, it could grow on you!!  I'm
>looking for a little guidance from the group.  Take it?  Keep it?
>Dump it?
>
>- --
>We Make the Beer We Drink!!!
>Bob Barrett
>Ann Arbor, Michigan  Extremely close to the center of the homebrewing 
>universe!!




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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:24:47 -0500
From: "Jason Henning" <jason at thehennings.com>
Subject: re: White Labs vials

In HBD-4668, jhandy asks about splitting WhiteLab tubes.

Yes, you can open, use half and store vials with reasonable care. If you 
can't, you probably can't brew in the first place.

Here's what I do. I dump a fresh tube in my wort. Since it's fresh, I don't 
build a starter. The tube will still has a bit of yeast left in it. I then 
fill the tube 2/3rds with wort and let it ferment with the lid on tight. I 
bleed the pressure every few days. Here's a picture 
http://thehennings.com/images/brc/wl-reuse.jpg. You can see the dab of yeast 
in the bottom of the vials. It doesn't give a lot of yeast but enough to 
build up with starters. Since I'm storing this yeast for the future, I 
already expect to have to build a starter.

Cheers,
Jason Henning
Whitmore Lake, MI





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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:30:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Welded Fittings

You can USUALLY get another 1/4 turn with the ball
valve, because you have a nipple connecting the valve
to the coupling, hence doubling the range of
adjustment.  With the thermometer and elbow, though,
you're much better off indexing the fitting before
welding.  Be sure to wrap the male threads with teflon
tape for your try fitting.

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal


		


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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:56:08 -0500
From: "HomeBrewUSA" <brewshop at homebrewusa.com>
Subject: Re: White Labs Vials

jhandy asked about resealing White Labs vials.  My response is that it IS 
possible but would not recommend long term storage of the remainder.

I have had good luck storing harvested yeast in the vials that have been 
sanitized.

Mike

Mike and Mellissa Pensinger
Owners, HomeBrewUSA
Norfolk, Virginia
http://www.homebrewusa.com
757-459-2739 




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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:30:11 -0500 
From: Chris Collier <CCollier at lanierclothes.com>
Subject: External thermostats

Has anyone had any luck putting an external thermostat on a side by side
refrigerator so you can lager on the refrigeration side and serve from the
freezer side? Seems logical that it would work if you could balance the
temperatures with a little trial and error.  I currently use a chest freezer
for serving and other than the excessive condensation that needs to be
cleaned up, it works fine.  That makes me wonder if the condensation be a
problem on an upright since it might run onto the floor.  Regardless, I plan
on trying this after my kitchen project is complete in January and will post
results.

Thanks,
Chris Collier
ATL, GA

Auburn should be in the Orange Bowl!


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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:00:58 -0800 
From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Subject: What is starch content of a pLambic?

When you make a pLambic wort, you attempt to make it dextrinous and with
some unconverted starch.  My question is:  how much starch?  1%?  5%?  This
doesn't seem to be a published number.  The reason I ask is that I have an
under-soured batch.  I'm planning to feed the lactobacillus/pedio bacteria
in an attempt to get some lactic acid increase.  I'm going to use a boiled
flour and water mixture as food.  What I'm wondering is how much flour?  My
batch was on the order 4kg of grist.  1% is 40g of flour - for whatever
reason, this seems a little low.  Maybe 100g?

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge to share on this topic?

A few details:  1.047 SG, pils/raw wheat grist, attempted modified
turbid-mash but found I couldn't denature enzymes fast enough to prevent
full-conversion, pitched XL pack of Wyeast 3278, beer is currently 13 months
old, brett character is very good, but too dominant.

thanks,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada



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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:09:13 -0600
From: Jeffrey Will <Jeff.Will at valpo.edu>
Subject: high temp fermentation

Hi.  I'm a newbie, so maybe this will sound
like a stupid question, but I'd like some
help.

I made my first all-grain batch Sunday.  It's
a brown ale.  I used Irish Ale yeast (with
a starter solution) and my starting gravity
was 1.045.

When I pitched the yeast, my temp was around
65.  I wanted to go a little higher, so I
left it in a warm place overnight, thinking
that it would only change 3-5 degrees by
the time I woke up to check on it.  However,
by morning, it was up to 78.  (Don't really
know how that happened, maybe exothermic processes
from the yeast.)

So I put it in a cooler, temp controlled place.
I got it down to 72 by the afternoon, and to
66 by the evening.  I've kept it at a constant
65 for the past two days.

Here's a rough profile of temp vs. time.  (Best
viewed w/ a fixed-space font):

80 |
   |
78 |                                *   *    
   |                             *          * 
76 |                          *                 *
   |                                                *   
74 |                       *                        
   |                                                     *
72 |                   
   |                   *                                     *
70 |                                                            *
   |               *
68 |                                                                *
   |            *
66 |*   *   *  
   |_________________________________________________________________
  Pitch	1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10  11  12  13  14  15  16

My questions:  Is the batch going to be ruined?  Will it be
all banana-flavored?  Is there anything special I should do
now?

I figured keeping it at a lower temp may help.  I'm also going to
definitely do a secondary.

Thanks for any help... feel free to mail me directly if
you don't want to clog up the list.  (jeff.will at valpo.edu)

Jeff



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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:37:56 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Welded fittings on a kettle

Paul wonders how others handle welded fittings so they orient correctly.

Stainless has a tendency to gall, but you can usually get enough turns to
orient a fitting.  It depends a bit on how you're putting it together.  A
coupling welded to a kettle, with a close nipple and a valve can probably be
oriented no matter what.  A male nipple and a valve...maybe.  

Frankly, I prefer sanitary fittings.  You can often get them fairly
reasonably priced on ebay.  I've obtained 3/4" sanitary ferrules pretty
cheaply, and a while back bought two stainless sanitary ball valves with
3/4" sanitary fittings for something like $20.  

It costs more initially, but it's the way to go, because you can disassemble
it entirely for cleaning.  With threaded couplings, each time you do this,
the fitting will tighten in a different location, farther around, or else it
will gall and get messed up entirely.

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:05:21 EST
From: DakBrew at aol.com
Subject: Beer gas folly

{  Quote Calvin Perilloux Mon, 6 Dec 2004 }
No surprise there, and I have to agree with Dave Burley who
already pointed out that beer gas is only part CO2, and so
you'll only have the partial pressure component of CO2 on
your beer instead of the gauge pressure.
- ----------
{  Me  }
You Lost me right there. Since when did pressure stop being
pressure? The is stil the pressure in the keg is still what ever
the regulator states.
- --------------
{  Quote Calvin Perilloux Mon, 6 Dec 2004 }
I think most beer gas is 75% N2 and 25% CO2 (look that up -- 
don't trust me on that).  Let's pick some numbers for the 
carbonation of your hefeweizen and assume that it's in 
equilibrium at 40 F at 16 psi CO2.  It's fine if your top 
pressure is 16 psi of pure CO2, but if it's beer gas instead, 
then  you're actually getting a partial pressure of only
4 psi of CO2.  CO2 will come out of the beer to compensate.
- -----------
{  Me  )
I dont buy that for one second. why the pressure being exerted
on the Beer and CO2 in solution is still in 16 psi regardlass of 
what the gas mix is. If CO2 came out of solution the pressure
in the keg would increase.
- ----------

{  Quote Calvin Perilloux Mon, 6 Dec 2004 }
I doubt it would be practical to jack the top pressure 
up to 4 x 16 psi = 64 psi!  Yow, think of the beer fountain
that will hit the barmaid when that jet hits the bottom of
the Weissbier glass!
- ------------
{  Me  }
Yea
- ------------

{  Quote Calvin Perilloux Mon, 6 Dec 2004 }
This is why beer gas is usually used for low-carbonation ales,
and definitely NOT for Weissbier.
- ------------

Huh? I was always under the impression that beer gas was
used in bars with long runs from the coolers to the taps,
Regardless of the beer style.

Hopefuly someone with some technical background can
prove one of us right.

Dan k


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Date: Wed,  8 Dec 2004 16:25:50 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Belgians (and re-using yeast)

I have been re-using my yeasts now for some time, and just had a string of good 
luck with an Abbey Ale yeast, and feel the need to share, in that they all (so 
far) are tasting very good to me. The yeast was Wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey.

The first use of the yeast was for a "Pale Abbey Ale":

9 lb Moravian Pilsner Malt (not the under modified)
 .5 lb Wheat malt
 .5 lb Special Aromatic malt

single infusion at 150 or so, mashout
22.6 ibu's of home gouldings, and saaz pellets
og 1.043
fg 1.010
abv= 4.3%


The second use of the yeast (now a cake) was for an "Amber Abbey":
5 lb pale malt
4 lb pilsner malt
1 lb wheat malt
 .5 lb Special aromatic
 .5 cara-amber

two stage infusion, 146 and 156 F, 27 ibu's of home gouldings.

og 1.051
fg 1.010
abv= 5.4%


The third use of the yeast (still a cake) was for a "Brown Abbey":
10 lb maris otter 2 row
 .25 lb brown malt (Fawcett's)
 .5 carapils
 .25 special B
1 lb wheat

single stage infusion near 156F, mashout, didn't calculate ibu's, but used home 
gouldings and Brewer's Gold hops

og 1.063
fg 1.015
abv = 6.3%
 

The forth, and maybe final use of the yeast was for a "Havasupai Red Abbey" 
(having recently returned from a successful trip down to the bottom of the 
Grand Canyon):
11 lb 2 row pale
1.5 wheat
 .5 cara-amber

2 step infusion , home grown gouldings hops.
og 1.066
fg 1.013
abv= 7%

Why present all of this here, you ask?  So that I can get feedback on the 
recipes, methods, and share with those who have not re-used yeast.  I know that 
I could wash the yeast (have not learned how to do so yet), but so far I have 
not gotten off-flavors which I can recognize as such.

Happy Brewing!
Darrell


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