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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Sulfur taste in Czech lager (Mike Mullins)
  response to Uerige Sticke recipe ("Florian Hirschmann")
  Re: answer about WLP005, question about yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Re: question about yeast ("HomeBrewUSA")
  Stuck Fermentation ("Dave Burley")
  RE: Shapes, viability and other staining tests? (Michael Owings)
  UMM Entries Due ("Steve Fletty")
  Stone Brewing Company Dinner (Sid Boswell)
  Leaf Hops ("Antony Hayes")
  Stuffing What In My Pants? ("Phil Yates")
  gap settings ("D. Clark")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 06:01:07 -0600
From: Mike Mullins <Brewmiker at charter.net>
Subject: Sulfur taste in Czech lager

I brewed a ten gallon batch of Czech pilsner in late October that has a 
horrible sulphur-like character. At first (second racking) I assumed it 
was a typical lager smell/taste that would be tempered by lagering. It 
has not decreased as far as I can tell. This beer is currently 
undrinkable. So what caused this?
Some quick background:
All grain batch, followed a clone brews recipe for budejovice budvar.
used two half gallon starters with one and a half tubes each of WLP 802 
(one was three months old, and free, one was a month old-it's a seasonal 
yeast), but the starters were not yet active when pitched (hey, timing 
was off).
The beer took two days to start noticeable fermentation, so I kept it 
warm for awhile 65 F.
after a few days I slowly moved it down to 50F and then followed a 
normal lager schedule. I also did a diacetyl rest at racking time.
Could the problem be bad yeast? High temp fermentation? Is there 
anything I can do to save the two kegs of this stuff?


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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:56:29 +0100
From: "Florian Hirschmann" <flohopser_no at gmx.de>
Subject: response to Uerige Sticke recipe

Doug Moyer asked for a recipe for Uerige Sticke.
I have a recipe for a beer called Sticke Festbier out of the book "Bier
brauen nach eigenem Geschmack" by Hanghofer, which I have successfully
brewed myself. (Pretty much a Sticke is an Alt with more hops and malt
flavour).

2.5kg pils malt
7.5kg munich malt (13-15 EBC)
100g wheat colour malt (could use carafa-malt instead I would suppose)

Heat up 32 L water to 61 C and dough in (--> gives 40 L mash with 57 C)
After 10 min heat up to 61 - 63 C hold for 45 min and heat up to 70 - 72 C
and hold again for 45 min. Lauter at 78 C.

First Wort Hopping: 40g Spalt Selekt (5.3 percent aa) Full Boil: 55g Magnum
or Taurus (13.7 percent aa), cook for 70 min Post Boil: 40g Spalt Selekt
(5.3 percent aa)

Yeast: WYEAST Alt 1007 or 1338
ferment at 14 - 18 C

The recipe is for 49 L with 13.5 degree Plato at 69 percent efficiency

Hope this helps, can not promise that it is the same as Uerige Sticke
though.

Viele Gruesse

Flohopser




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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:51:38 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: answer about WLP005, question about yeast

"Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> writes from San Diego:

>these are my personal notes on White's yeast:
><snip>
>WLP 022 Essex - Dry, clean, non-descript, boring (most judges will probably
>love it)

That description sounds more like WLP001 (California) or Danstar 
Nottingham.  This is what makes horse races.  Essex is my favorite 
British ale yeast.  I love it for bitters and milds.  Strangely, 
though, I find Ridley's ales to be boring and nondescript.

I no doubt have a proprietary interest in this yeast since I brought 
it back from Ridley's Brewery in Essex, UK, several years ago, and 
provided it to WhiteLabs.

I find it to be very authentically English in character.  I'm not 
sure just what that means - it's an impression more than anything 
else.  But I don't find it at all boring.

It is somewhat fruity, though not strongly.  It also has a woody 
character - almost like oak aging.  Nicely dry, too.  I find that 
many homebrewed bitters are not dry enough.

It wasn't quite clean enough for a Guinness style , but with a little 
time it has grown on me.  It was also a bit fruity for a Russian 
Imperial Stout, but, again, with time, it's doing nicely.  I made an 
historic English IPA based on a few recipes from the Durden Park 
booklet and it's great.

I also love the fact that it produces a huge head of easily 
harvestable, very clean yeast for repitching..  Of course, it I 
didn't like its flavor profile, that wouldn't mean anything.

I suppose I really should try some of the other British ale yeasts 
again - it's been a while.  Maybe I'd like them better.  You can get 
in a rut.  But I know that after a couple of trips to the UK, I got 
more picky about the flavor of my bitters, and Essex yeast, with my 
system, makes some authentic-tasting beers.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:18:00 -0500
From: "HomeBrewUSA" <brewshop at homebrewusa.com>
Subject: Re: question about yeast

Chad askes about pouring unaerated wort on an existing yeast cake.

While I agree that the amount of yeat is sufficient to do the job I am 
curious how you come by unaerated wort.  The sheer fall into the fermenting 
vessel will serve to aerate to some degree however slight.  This essentially 
puts your yeast back into a reduced time aerobic phase.

Mike

Mike and Mellissa Pensinger
Owners, HomeBrewUSA
Norfolk, Virginia
http://www.homebrewusa.com
757-459-2739 




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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:45:16 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Stuck Fermentation

Brewsters:

Tim Lewis is concerned his Belgian Strong Ale is not finished fermenting,

Spencer Thomas gives an excellent response to which I agree completely, but it 
still does not solve the basic problem of accurately determining if the 
fermentation is completely finished..

There is one more step you can take to answer the puzzle and that is to 
determine if you have any <substantial> amount of fermentable sugars left.

Of course, Clinitest can do exactly that.

Recently Fred and I had a discussion offline and I learned that he was 
concened that since Ale yeast do not ferment trisaccharides and that Clinitest 
responds to these there could be some confusion.  Perhaps, but since the 
amount of trisaccharides is typically very small ( about 1/4% "glucose" 
response from Clinitest) it is easy to determine if you have a substantial ( 
like 1 or 2%)  amount of fermentable sugars left and therefore a stuck 
fermentation.

If you have a positive Clinitest response of less than 1/2%, esp with an ale 
yeast you do not have a stuck fermentation. Most often with beers of "normal" 
alcohol content you will have a response on the order of 1/4% at the end of an 
active fermentation with any yeast. If you lager with a true lager yeast this 
can go as low as 0%. Ale will stay in the 1/4% region.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley 




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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:48:40 -0600
From: Michael Owings <mikey at swampgas.com>
Subject: RE: Shapes, viability and other staining tests?

Frederic wrote in HBD4690:
> I should add that the rod frequency increase upon 
> activation with wort. I have exercised sanitation
> and I think there is no likely way any contamination 
> can have grown this frequent at this point anyway,
> unless it was already present in the yeast bag?

I dunno -- the rod morphology seems a little odd to me. I haven't looked 
at Kolsch strains, but I have a number of yeast photos and videos up at:

http://www.swampgas.com/microscopy/yeast/index.html

There are very few rod-shaped items in any of these. I wonder if what 
you're seeing are depth-of-field artifacts. In other words, perhaps the 
yeast in question are a good bit more ellipsoid than rod-shapped, but 
you're just seeing a thin slice of the top surface of some cells. Just a 
thought. I _have_ seen the occasional elongated cell, but not to the 
degree shown in your photos.

Cheers -- m

- -- 
Teleoperate a roving mobile robot from the web:
http://www.swampgas.com/robotics/rover.html


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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:16:36 -0600
From: "Steve Fletty" <fletty at umn.edu>
Subject: UMM Entries Due

The Upper Mississippi Mash-Out (UMM) will begin accepting entries on 
Saturday January 8.

The deadline is Friday January 21.

The UMM is the first leg in the circuit for both the High Plains Brewer of 
the Year and the Midwest Brewer of the Year.

Special categories in the UMM are eis beer, mead or cider and New Entrant.

More contest details at http://mnbrewers.com/mashout

Hope to see you at the end of the month!



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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:31:27 -0500
From: Sid Boswell <sid.boswell at gmail.com>
Subject: Stone Brewing Company Dinner

I do not work for Tuscorora Mill nor do I work for Stone Breweing.  I
am just a brewer who came accross this and wanted to share as others
may want to enjoy this as well (I'm planning on going).

Tuscorora Mill is in Leesburg VA (suburb of Washington DC) and had
very good food and has Arrogant Bastard on tap and usually has
beer/wine dinners with guests from breweries or vinyards.

Here are the details....

Tuscarora Mill Welcomes Stone Brewing Company of Sunny San Deigo, California
with Guest "Bastard" Michael Saklad

January 12, 2005

1st Course - India Pale Ale
Viennese Viel Schnitzel with Parsley-Caper Hollandaise on Rosti Potoato
Roasted Quail Bites

2nd Course - Smoked Porter
"Looziana" Smoked Ham on Red Beans and Rice with Whole Grain Mustard Cream

3rd Course - 8th Anniversary
Vietnamese Spicy Oxtail Soup, Hue Style

4th Course - Ruination India Pale Ale
Shrimp with Roasted Garlic, Serrano Ham and Smoked Paprika
Roasted Figs Stuffed with Chorizo and Blue Cheese
Slow Roasted Pork with Quince Glaze

Main Course - Arrogant Bastard, Double Bastard
Indian Tandoori Rack of Lam with Braised Tomato and Eggplant and
Creamy Curried Potatoes

Dessert - Oak aged Bastard
Warm Tropical Fruits with Dulce de Leche Ice Cream

$65 inclusive (includes all courses, all beers, and tip)


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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 22:42:07 +0200
From: "Antony Hayes" <anthayes at telkomsa.net>
Subject: Leaf Hops

I used leaf hops for the first time since 1998. After clogging my 
counterflow chiller and bursting a pipe, I was reminded as to why I moved to 
pellets in the first place. The infernal things get in everywhere and clog 
up everything.

That being said, I now have 3,7 kg of fresh leaf hops that I need to find a 
use for. Can anyone point me to a successful method of using these things 
with a counterflow chiller and a pump. My best thoughts so far are to make a 
giant tea bag.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg 



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Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 08:10:06 +1100
From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at bigpond.com>
Subject: Stuffing What In My Pants?

Brian Lundeen writes:
>But... but... that's cheating, Bill. Shirley, you don't want the HBD to
>win by ballot stuffing or some other disreputable means. And with 31
>votes when I checked, I'm afraid we'd be stuffing like Phil Yates stuffs
>his pants on Ladies Drink for Free night at the the town bar.

And just what is so wrong with doing this Brian?
That's the last time I let any secrets out to you!!

Actually, of late I've fallen foul with all the ladies (especially Jill) and
these days keep to myself sipping away on IPA's in the shed. I've got an IPA
wort kit which I've been modifying slightly (like chucking a handful of DME
in) and then I zap it out (that's new tech talk for "fermentation") with a
DCL SO4. End result is a knock out. So far on the wort kit line, I've been
most impressed with the Boch (especially undiluted), Pilsner (just love the
pilsner), and the modified IPA. BTW, the lager fermented (or zapped out)
with DCL SO4 comes out a dead ringer for Coopers Pale Ale.

It's that time of the year when I want to get back into wheat beers. I
wanted to do another peach wheat but Skotrat tells me that might make me
look a bit girlish, or worse.

How do you think I'd look Brian, wandering around the bars with peach wheat
beers stuffed down my pants?

Phil



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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:16:04 -0500
From: "D. Clark" <clark at capital.net>
Subject: gap settings

Hi List,

I have a question for the collective regarding gap settings for crushing 
malted barley and wheat.  I received a Barley Crusher for Christmas 
(another fun toy for dads' brewing days) and I was wondering if the preset 
gap (.039) is the best setting to use.  I usually buy my grains at my home 
brew store and crush them there, but I have no idea what the gap setting 
is.  My extractions run around 75%.  And what about wheat malt?  The store 
mill can barely pass any wheat through the rollers, so I run it a cup at a 
time through a blender.  Yes, I get a lot of flour, but so what.  I have 
only had one sort of stuck sparge in dozens of beers and a little extra 
time spent clearing the wort is okay.  Should the wheat be crushed at a 
narrower setting?

A couple of comments about yeast as it is always a part of the digest.  I 
generally use liquid yeast from Wyeast for most of my brewing, but the cost 
of a smack pack and the time needed to build a starter take a little away 
from using it exclusively.  I regularly make a clonebrew of Magic Hat # 9, 
which is an apricot ale, and I have used both Nottingham and Safale S-04 
with very good results.  Both ferment very quickly and floc out very 
well.  The S-04 leaves the beer especially clean tasting.  Dry yeast is 
great for those spur of the moment brewing opportunities.

Thanks for the help gang.

Dave Clark
Eagle Bridge, New York



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