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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Beer Prevents Cancer, Yeast Origin (Bob Devine)
  Re: Potassium Metabisulfite in Beer ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Need Help from anyone experienced with Plastic HLTs (Scott McAfee)
  re: Ok to lager without airlock? (John Schnupp)
  RE: Ok to lager without airlock? ("Ronald La Borde")
  Re: Blow off blowoff,counterflow chiller sanitation (Jeff Renner)
  Re: OK to lager without airlock? (Robert Marshall)
  Re: Ok to lager without airlock? (Jeff Renner)
  DIACETYL REST FOR SAFLAGER S-23 (Mark Jacobs)
  Brewing Scholarships (Don Van Valkenburg)
  Cleaning CFCs ("Peed, John")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:47:22 -0700
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Beer Prevents Cancer, Yeast Origin

Geoff Harrison wrote:
> There are well over a dozen studies over the past 30 years which show that
> moderate consumption of alcohol, defined as one or two alcohol equivalents
> per day for men, one per day for women, is overall good for us; those who
> drink moderately live longer than those who drink more, or less. Three
> drinks a day for men and two for women is the break even point. There have
> been close to a dozen theories to try and explain the beneficial effects;
> the two which come to mind are anti-oxidants found especially in dark beer
> and red wine, and an insulin sensitizing effect.

True.  Studies have indicated that the *overall* effect
from moderate drinking is beneficial.  But it is a trade-off.
Drinking alcohol increases cancers but reduces other problems.

Alcohol is a known risk factor for cancer of the mouth and throat
as found in heavy drinkers.  In fact, for heavy drinkers there is
an increased cancer risk all along the digestive tract -- higher
cancer rates have been found for stomach through rectum.
Other cancers that have a positive correlation with beer include
lung and breast cancer. It is less clear for moderate levels.
On a positive note, alcohol decrease the chances of cardiovascular
disease.  Overall, alcohol is a net positive.  Also beer contributes
antioxidants.  The "miracle" of red wine may be due to resveratrol,
an antioxidant.  Dark beers have that one and another antioxidant,
quercetin, that is thought to reduce some cancers.

Currently the knowledge about alcohol and cancer remains
confusing and contradictory. My posting was to highlight a
surprising result from the mouse study that the de-alcoholized
beer reduced cancers in laboratory animals. Very positive news!

The best quickie overview that I could find on cancer & alcohol is:
http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/Alctype.html

Bob Devine


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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:54:30 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Potassium Metabisulfite in Beer

On Wednesday, 19 January 2005 at 15:33:07 -0800, Robert Sandefer wrote:
> I have recently conducted a little experiment on the
> use of sulfite in removing chlorine/chloramine from
> brewing water (rather than running it through a
> filter).
>
> ...
>
> Over all, adding sulfite to tap water is an easy way
> to remove chlorine and produce noticeably better beer.

I haven't done rigorous testing, but I've been using potassium
metabisulphite in my beers recently, to the level of 0.5 g in a 25
litre batch (20 ppm by weight).  I don't know how this corresponds to
the quantities that you mention.

I've not noticed much difference in flavour, except for an unpleasant
sulphite taste from time to time.  Could it be I'm using too much?

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.



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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:10:27 -0500
From: Scott McAfee <scmcafee at cox.net>
Subject: Need Help from anyone experienced with Plastic HLTs

My current 15 gallon Hot Liquor Tank is about 4g too small.  After a bad 
experience with a bad weld-job on a 25 gal. stainless pot, I'm 
considering an electric-element-heated polypropylene HLT.  A hot water 
heater element would go into a polypropylene fitting.

Advantages are:  Relatively cheap ($160/30g tank); Light weight; 
Bulkhead valves are easy to install and you don't need to clean them on 
a HLT;  Graduated translucent tank means no sight tube needed; and with 
an automatic temperature controller, I could start it heating hours 
before I brew and not worry about it.

Does anyone have any experience with plastic HLTs?  The polypropylene is 
rated to 220 deg. F, but will the proximity of the element to the 
bulkhead fitting be a problem?  Is a bulkhead fitting OK on a cylinder, 
or do I need to get a rectangular tank?  Anything else I need to look 
out for?

Thanks in advance,
 -Scott McAfee
 Springfield, VA


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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:34:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Ok to lager without airlock?

Pat asks,
>1) Can I leave the beer in the fermenter for both
>primary and secondary/lagering even without an airlock or should I rack to
>something else for the second stage.  

So with all this talk about blow-off tubes, why not just go that way?  You
could drill the cap and install an elbow fitting which would not be nearly as
tall as an airlock.  A blow-off tube is basically a huge airlock anyway.  

Your other option would be to build a collar for around the top of the freezer.
 However, that is probably not the quickest or cheapest solution.



=====
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Blue Moon Hombrewery
[560.2, 68.6] Rennerian
Georgia, VT
95 XLH 1200



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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:41:06 -0600
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Ok to lager without airlock?

>>>>>
From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at Charter.net>

 Hello all.  I need some speedy advice here.  I am fermenting my first
lager
in a new conical fermenter and realized after pitching a huge yeast
slurry
and capping the thing that the airlock won't fit on top - that is, the
set
up fits so snug in my chest freezer vertically that there just isn't
room
for the airlock on top.  As you can see in the pictures (links below),
the
vessel did come with a covered port on top.  Typically I pop off the
little
round cap on top and plug the hole with a rubber stopper and airlock.
My
question is two fold.  1) Can I leave the beer in the fermenter for
both
primary and secondary/lagering even without an airlock or should I
rack to
something else for the second stage.  2)How often should I drain the
yeast,
trub, etc out of the bottom of the thing?  I was intending to drain
once
after primary ferm and perhaps one more time after the diacetyl rest.
<<<<<<<<

Hmm, nice pictures, several things:

* that plastic is not so good for long time lagering - oxygen can
diffuse through the walls.

* the airlock: you could use an elbow t-barb fitting with a short
piece of hose into a container of     sanitizer solution for the
airlock.

* the yeast/trub: many complain that if the angle of the cone is not
steep enough, the yeast will stubbornly cling to the sides and refuse
to drain out. If you can manage it, rotating the whole gizmo may help.

* when you drain from the bottom, make sure you don't suck back from
the top any air or solution from the airlock.

* It may be simpler to pump the beer to a glass secondary for
laggering.

Ron
=====
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
www.hbd.org/rlaborde




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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:53:48 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Blow off blowoff,counterflow chiller sanitation

"Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> wrote

>A long standing technique argument is "why try to ferment in a carboy and have
>to have a blowoff tube?"
>
>I have tried it and hate the idea of generating a tube full of nasties for the
>next brew and losing beer. And the brown greasy unreachable ring inside the
>carboy.. well!

When I fermented ales in a carboy (and I still do with lagers, but 
get no blowoff), I used a three foot length of one inch food grade 
vinyl hose jammed into the neck of the carboy.  This prevents 
dangerous clogs.

Then when I rack to secondary, I soak the carboy in bleach water, 
which loosens the brown ring and it comes off easily with a bent 
carboy brush.

I use the carboy brush for the hose, too.  I soak it first in bleach 
water.  If you straighten the wire handle, you can jam the brush in 
the hose to the length of the handle.  It's hell to pull out, though, 
because you have to reverse the bristles in the tight hose.  What I 
do is hook the loop on the end of the handle onto something solid and 
pull on the hose until the bristles turn, then pull the brush out. 
The I do the same from the other end and rinse.

Result - clean carboy and hose.

===
I use an immersion chiller now, but when I used a counter-flow one 
(which I made c.1981 from a barebones description by the original 
homebrewing Mr Wizard, Al Andrews of the Maltose Falcons, in 
Zymurgy), I used the same cleaning/sanitation technique as Dave 
recommends with similar success.

Jeff
- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:25:04 -0800
From: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
Subject: Re: OK to lager without airlock?

Go to your local brewery shop and find some nalgene tubing that will fit
into the rubber stopper and is long enough to reach the bottom of the
fridge.

Next, get a small container and put some water in it. Put the loose end
of the tubing into the water. You have an improvised airlock!!

Good luck,

Robert
- --------------------------------------
Pat/Debbie wrote:

>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:31:10 -0600
>From: "Pat and Debbie Reddy" <reddydp at Charter.net>
>Subject: Ok to lager without airlock?
>
>	Hello all.  I need some speedy advice here.  I am fermenting my first lager
>in a new conical fermenter and realized after pitching a huge yeast slurry
>and capping the thing that the airlock won't fit on top - that is, the set
>up fits so snug in my chest freezer vertically that there just isn't room
>for the airlock on top.  As you can see in the pictures (links below), the
>vessel did come with a covered port on top.  Typically I pop off the little
>round cap on top and plug the hole with a rubber stopper and airlock.  My
>question is two fold.  1) Can I leave the beer in the fermenter for both
>primary and secondary/lagering even without an airlock or should I rack to
>something else for the second stage.
>  
>




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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:18:50 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Ok to lager without airlock?

Brewers

Pat Debbie Reddy <reddydp at Charter.net> emailed me directly with 
his question about his airlock and I replied privately, but I though 
that I'd post my reply and followup to HBD, too.

========

Pat

That's a nice looking fermenter.  And a much cleaner freezer than 
mine.  Mine's full of black mold that I really need to scrub out. 
I've turned it off for the winter as the outside wall closets in the 
basement at 48 F.  I really need to brew a lager PDQ.  The yeast is 
getting old.

>1) Can I leave the
>beer in the fermenter for both primary and secondary/lagering even without
>an airlock or should I rack to something else for the second stage.

I would not want to leave it with that much head space for an 
extended lagering period, even with an air lock.  You will inevitably 
have some air in the head space, especially after you drain 
yeast/trub.

I typically ferment eight gallons in two five gallon carboys, then 
rack to a 7.75 gallon Sankey to lager.  I rack after the primary has 
slowed but not stopped, so a bit of pressure builds up in the sealed 
keg.

>2)In
>your opinion, how often should I drain the yeast, trub, etc out of the
>bottom of the thing?  I was intending to drain once after primary ferm and
>perhaps one more time after the diacetyl rest.

The diacetyl rest is part of the primary fermentation.  It isn't by 
any means always necessary - it depends on the yeast strain and, I 
suspect, fermentation regimen/temperature.  I never need it with the 
Ayinger strain, WhiteLabs' 833 German Bock.  You should be able to 
tell by smelling or tasting near the end of the fermentation. 
Without an airlock, of course, it's a little harder to tell when the 
primary is slowing, but you can check by the head.  If there is no 
diacetyl, then you can proceed without it.  If there is diacetyl, 
then allow the temperature to rise to ~60 F or so.  I think I'd just 
turn off the freezer and open it.  The idea is to have some residual 
extract for the yeast to metabolize when it consumes the diacetyl.

So I think I would run the yeast out right before I transfer to the 
secondary.  I think that's how commercial brewers do it, too.  It 
might be a good idea to drain the trub after it settles out before 
fermentation really gets going and suspends it, but since you're 
already going, that's a moot point.

Let me know how it goes.  What are you brewing?

After a followup email from Pat, I replied:

I seldom get a very big head with lagers at 48F, maybe 2-3 inches.  A 
neat trick that Anheuser-Busch, and I assume other brewers, use is to 
allow just enough head space that the foam  with the "Braunhefe" on 
top of it sticks to the underside of the fermenter top.  This 
effectively removes this bitter Braunhefe.  This works with a bottom 
fermenting lager yeast because the foam is not sticky and yeasty the 
way it is with most top fermenting ale yeasts.  You don't get any 
particular seepage around the edge of the lid if you do it right, and 
a little seepage can easily be cleaned off.

BTW, W2007 is the Budweiser strain.  The worst diacetyl I tasted in a 
lager was when a friend, who is an excellent lager brewer, used this 
without a diacetyl rest.  Others haven't had a problem with it, so I 
don't know what he did differently, but I think I would give it a 
rest.

Jeff

- -- 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:47:29 -0500
From: Mark Jacobs <mjacobs at edzone.net>
Subject: DIACETYL REST FOR SAFLAGER S-23

I made a quick extract batch with starting gravity of 1.047 to try the
Saflager S-23 dry lager yeast I have been reading about on HBD. Since I
typically make 3 gallon batches, I am interested in alternatives to
liquid yeast. The batch is currently fermenting at 52-54 degrees.
Question: Does this yeast require a diacetyl rest ?

Mark
Cass River Home-brew Club
Michigan



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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:32:16 -0800
From: Don Van Valkenburg <brewing at earthlink.net>
Subject: Brewing Scholarships

Write a short essay and tell us why you are passionate about brewing and 
you may receive paid tuition to the UC Davis's short course "Intensive 
Brewing Science for Practical Brewing. 

California Fermentation Society proudly announces it's scholarships for 
2005. Our major fund raising activity is the Los Angeles County Fair 
Beer Competition which is heading into its fourth successful year. It is 
this event that offers us the opportunity to both educate the public 
about the variety and quality of beers available in this region and 
raise money to send brewers to Siebel Institute and UC Davis.

This year we are offering to send a brewer to UC Davis's Extension 
course titled "Intensive Brewing Science for Practical Brewing 
<http://universityextension.ucdavis.edu/brewing/brew_science.asp>".   
This program is intended for entry level brewing industry professionals. 
It is of special interest to less experienced brewery employees who need 
technical training to enable them to understand how their jobs fit into 
the larger context of brewery operations.    It is NOT a homebrewing 
course as they teach everything on a big system, however,  it may be of 
interest to some homebrewers who have aspirations of going professional.  

Apply for the UC Davis directly to CFS. Simply describe in 100 words or 
less why you brew. In other words; what is it about brewing that lights 
your fire. Also, include a short statement regarding your level of 
experience. That can be something like; "serious homebrewer for 10 
years; or brewer's assistant for two years.

The decision will not necessarily be based on experience, but the 
applicant should have a good understanding of the brewing process. The 
final decision will be based purely on a subjective evaluation of the 
applicants' description of why he/she loves brewing. In the event of 
similar essays, a random drawing will be held.

The Davis Scholarship does not include transportation or lodging. 
Deadline for entries is May 1, 2005. Applicants must be able to attend 
the June 20-24, 2005 course.

Send your application to:
Stein Fillers Brewing Supply
4160 Norse Way
Long Beach, California, 90808

We also fund scholarships at Siebel Institute.
For information regarding Siebel scholarships please go to: 
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/registration/scholarship.html 
<http://www.siebelinstitute.com/>

Be sure to include on your application: Name, address, phone, email.
Not open to board members of CFS or their family.

Info about us can be found at www.calferm.org


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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:48:16 -0500
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Cleaning CFCs


De-lurk.  I started using a convoluted counter-flow wort chiller a year or
so ago, fed by a pump.  My regimen is to recirculate a standard solution of
StarSan through it for half an hour or so before each use.  At the start of
the chill/transfer operation I pump the sanitizer out onto the ground, plus
a bit of wort, just for insurance, then stop, put the hose into the
receiving vessel and let 'er rip.  After the beer is put up, the tubing,
pump and chiller are back-flushed with hot tap water at full tap pressure
for a minute or so.  So it's clean now, right?  Notttt exactly.  Now
recirculate a standard solution of Powdered Brewers Wash - the solution
usually picks up a yellowish tint from, I surmise, tiny hop particles
clinging to the chiller walls.  After a short recirc of the PBW solution,
another hot water back-flush, then disassemble and drain, aided by wobbling
the chiller in a direction that aids outflow.  Finally, remove the hose
adapters, leaving nothing but the copper CCFC, and bake for an hour in a 250
to 275 degree oven to evaporate all the remaining moisture.  Cool, then
store dry.

Is all this necessary?  I dunno, but I do know that beer isn't just good or
bad - there are an infinite number of degrees of spoilage, from obviously
infected to "is there something a little off about this?", so I like to make
as certain as possible that the critical equipment is clean.  Besides, in
spite of how it sounds on virtualpaper, it isn't that much work.

My buddy Dennis Collins stores his gravity-fed, non-convoluted chiller full
of iodophor and has no problems with it.  I guess it's a matter of whatever
works for you.  I can say, though, that flat statements such as, "You can't
effectively sanitize a counterflow chiller/you can't effectively
counter-pressure bottle homebrew/you can't effectively filter beer as a
homebrewer" - what these statements really mean is, "I've had problems and I
haven't figured out how to solve them yet."  One thing I would definitely
recommend to everyone who has a CFC of any kind is, if possible, pump PBW
and StarSan through it.  Don't get too aggressive with either chemical - use
the lighter of the recommended rates for PBW (3/4 oz per gal) and the
standard rate for StarSan (I use 5/8 tsp for 2 quarts).  I'm pretty sure an
aggressive solution of PBW can attack copper (appeared to turn the solution
green once when I overdid it).  I don't think StarSan attacks copper but I
KNOW that it takes the oxide off, and that's why I use it - I figure that if
it removes the oxide, it removes everything else too.  Re-lurk.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN


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