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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Need Help from anyone experienced with Plastic HLTs (Scott McAfee)
  Clinitest tests ("William Frazier")
  Health and Beer (leavitdg)
  RE: CFC cleaning summary (Steven Parfitt)
  Re:  CFC Cleaning (Dennis Collins)
  Counterflow Chillers ("HomeBrewUSA")
  Water Softener ("Noah A. Bolmer")
  CFC cleaning ("Travis Miller")
  Re: Beer in Los Angeles? (Kent Fletcher)


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Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 23:27:37 -0500
From: Scott McAfee <scmcafee at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Need Help from anyone experienced with Plastic HLTs

Thanks to Ronald La Borde for the plastic HLT tips.  I especially liked 
the idea of putting the element in directly without a bulkhead.

One bit of advice that concerns me, though, is as follows:

<snip>
 ...Advantages [of Polypropylene] are:  Relatively cheap ($160/30g tank)....

Cheap? Sounds expensive. You can get the blue HDPE tanks probably for
free, or much cheaper, liquid malt extract comes in a 15 gallon tank,
check with your homebrew shop and ask for one.
</snip>

I considered HDPE, but all info I've found on Polyethylene suggests that 
it's rated to a maximum 140-160 F.  I'm sure this works fine for Ron 
(nice set-up!), and probably doesn't present any problems, but I'd like 
to be sure.  Is it still FDA compliant at 170F for sparging?  Is it just 
a plastic distortion issue, or is the potential there for dissolving 
more resins and plastic fuzz in the water?  I haven't found any info on 
this and I'd like to be sure before I go to a cheaper HDPE option.

 -Scott
Springfield, VA




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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:32:48 -0600
From: "William Frazier" <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Clinitest tests

Dave Burley writes "BTW glucometers will always be in error as will 
Clinistix and other test
methods which have as their basis a test only for glucose 
determination....After fermentation all the sucrose added before 
fermentation is inverted by the yeast invertase and therefore responds to 
Clinitest."

Dave - Am I correct that any residule sucrose after fermentation will be 
inverted and exist as glucose and fructose?  If this is correct do you 
believe you could use a glucometer to test for the glucose portion and then 
calculate residule sugar by multiplying the test result by an appropriate 
factor?

Bill Frazier
Olathe, Kansas USA




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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:51:41 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Health and Beer


Health benefits of (moderate amt of) beer:


http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/041204TheBuzzOnBeer.htm 


Happy Brewing!

 ..Darrell


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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 06:12:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: CFC cleaning summary

pacman replies: 

>It was good to hear from all the folks who have had
>no problems with their CFC's and spoilage.  I have
>yet to have a bad batch, and I am comfortable with my
>cleaning and sanitizing routine, so I feel equipped
>to establish a good routine for the counterflow
>chiller.  Between the three cleaners/sanitizers I
>like using, (Straight-A, Iodophor, Star-San) the
>chances are good I will keep that bad-boy virtually
>pristine.  

>I visualize something like backflush with Straigh-A
>followed by a Straight-A soak, then hot rinse. Fill
>with a Star-San mix and let sit until ready to use
>next brew session.  
|
 ....................................

I do not recomend leaving StarSan in the chiller for
long term storage. I accidently left a section of
copper tubing star san for a week and it appears to
continue to attack the copper. If I were going to
leave anything in my CFC, I'd be inclined towards a
mild (<5%) caustic solution.

 .....................................
|
>When brew time comes, drain and rinse the Star-San
>well with hot water, fill with Iodophor, let sit
>until ready to use.  Man, I can't wait to brew!
|
 ......................................

There is no need to rinse with hot water after soaking
with StarSan since it is a no rinse sanitizer(unless
your are removing it for long term storage). Since it
is as-or-more effective than Iodophor, filling with
Iodophor is pretty much overkill and just more work.

In general I use one cleaner, and one stanitizer.

The exception is my twice a year flush of everything
with Quant-ammonia (Steramine Tablets
http://www.sanitize.com/ ).

Good luck.

Steven



		


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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 10:45:40 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Dennis Collins <dcollins at springmail.com>
Subject: Re:  CFC Cleaning

I hadn't read the HBD for some time and when I finally did a day or so
ago, I surprisingly found my name mentioned.  Not in vain, but just
mentioned by my fellow Tennesse Valley Homebrewer, John Peed.
I thought I would expound on my "lazy" maintenance method for
caring for my CFC.

First off, I think CFC's are problematic because they can never fully
dry out without some help.  The tube is relatively small and there's
just no circulation in a small tube of that length.  John Peed's method
of actually baking the CFC in an oven is a good one, and in fact, 
I think is the single most important aspect of his CFC maintenance.
Moisture + air + time = mold.  Period.  Personally (meaning I could
be wrong), I think this is 99% of all problems experienced with CFC's.
You can tackle this dilemma in at least two ways:  first you can make
sure that sucker is bone dry.  An oven would certainly do the job.
The second way is to eliminate ALL the air.  I do this by keeping the
CFC completely filled with sanitizer between uses.  I siphon sanitizer
through the CFC, then when there is a good steady flow out the end,
I use a plastic screw protector to slip over the end and cap it.  Then
I pull off the hose feeding the CFC and cap that one too with another
screw protector.  No air + sanitizer = no mold.  I've kept it capped
and full of sanitizer for a couple of months and used it without incident.

To make matters worse, I am a very lazy brewer.  Cleaning solutions
like PBW, TSP, et. all, are a big pain to me and I prefer just to rinse
things out really good.  The CFC is no exception.  Immediately after
use, I put the garden hose nozzle right up to the end of the CFC coil
and just force water through it for about 15 seconds or so.  This flushes
out most everything (at least to the naked eye), then I fill it with sanitizer,
cap it and store it.  I must admit, when I do go to use the CFC, I drain out
the old sanitizer and fill it with new sanitizer for 20 minutes or so, then
drain that out prior to use (no rinsing).

I've had the CFC for 3-1/2 years now and have brewed about 50 times
with it.  About a year after I started using it, I flushed it with PBW.  Why?
I don't know.  Made me feel better at the time.  However, I haven't done
it since.  So far, so good.

I'm not recommending that other brewers should abandon their cleaning
regimens, this is just another data point on the opposite end of the scale
(the lazy end).

Prost,

Dennis Collins
Knoxville, TN
http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com







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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 13:35:55 -0500
From: "HomeBrewUSA" <brewshop at homebrewusa.com>
Subject: Counterflow Chillers

I find it interesting that each person has thier own theory on cleaning 
these things.  I expect it has the same reason that we all tend to brew a 
little differently.

While I was brewing proffessionaly at Hilltop Brewing Company in Va Beach my 
typical cleaning process was as follows:

Hot sanitize.  Circulate 170+ degree water through the CFC and the fermenter 
spray ball for minumum of 15 minutes.
Pump beer into the fermenter.
Backflush CFC with 170+ degree water untill it runs clear.
I stored it dry.  No issues for the 2 years I brewed.

I use the same sort of process in my home system but have only been using a 
CFC at home for a few batches.

I have a friend (Pro brewer in St. Louis) who does the 
caustic:acid:flush:store full of Iodophor and he has a Pedio problem even 
after all of that.

I guess I am of the KISS viewpoint and overthinking generally get one in 
trouble

Happy Brewing...

Mike
Mike and Mellissa Pensinger
Owners, HomeBrewUSA
Norfolk, Virginia
http://www.homebrewusa.com
757-459-2739 




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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:12:11 -0800
From: "Noah A. Bolmer" <noah at ocztechnology.com>
Subject: Water Softener



Hiyas-
I recently moved into my new house (rental) and have obtained one of the 
last St. Pats 3-level system made, and
I'll be attempting my first all-grain batch. I have read a bit on water 
chemistry - and have a couple of concerns.
The house I live in has a water softener that uses salt, (although I 
have NO IDEA how to operate it). I don't know
whether the outside hose water bypasses the softener or not- any easy 
way to check? I have a fishtank and a
hardness test, but I have no idea what that would tell me in terms of 
this situation. Also, I have a reverse osmosis
2 stage system in the sink. Would I be better off using that water and 
adjusting the chemistry every time I brew
beer? Seems that R/O filters could get expensive (I plan on 10 gallon 
batches).

As an aside, anyone know how to operate an older water softener? 
Basicially the only thing you can set is the
hardness which ranges from 1 to like 100 or something. You also set the 
cycle time (time of day, not length of the
cycle). The previous owner had it set on 8, and the unit is filled with 
what looks and smells like salt, tho it's clumped
together oddly. There is no manual, and no manual to be downloaded 
online. I live in San Jose, CA but I'm not sure
what the local water chemistry is like.


Thanks for any help!!

Noah

Noah A. Bolmer
VP Operations
OCZ Technology, Inc.
www.ocztechnology.com

408.733.8400 x475
noah at ocztechnology.com



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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:03:42 -0500
From: "Travis Miller" <travismiller at comcast.net>
Subject: CFC cleaning

Fred Asks:  "How do the professionals do it?"

That depends on who you ask because different breweries do it differently.
We have a heat exchanger that is like the Therminator type of chiller as do
most breweries.  I've never heard of a brewery using a counter flow but
stranger things have happened. I run our various cleaning solutions through
the H.E. backwards utilizing our portable pump that we use to clean the
fermentation vessels and bright tank.  With the way our brew house is set up
I'm able to perform the cycle on the lauter tun at the same time I clean the
HE which saves time, water and chemical.  The cleaning solution is run at a
faster flow rate than we run wort through it on the way to the FV.  We use a
caustic solution (at 160 F) for 45 minutes, rinse clean, a phosphoric acid
based cleaner for 30 minutes, rinse clean, and if we aren't brewing for a
few days I pack it and the brewers hose full of paracetic acid sanitizer
mixed at a no rinse concentration.  It is also our SOP to take it apart once
a quarter to inspect the plates.  Some breweries use different chemicals
such as PBW and Acid #5 (also by made by 5 Star), some use chlorinated
caustic and not acid, some use just acid and no caustic, some alternate back
and forth on some sort of rotation.  By the condition of our heat exchanger
when we got it I think that it might have been rinsed but is certainly had
not been cleaned in a while by the previous owner.  We also heat sanitize
the transfer hose, hard pipe, valves, and the heat exchanger with hot liquor
before sending finished wort from the whirlpool to the unitank.

Travis





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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:47:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Beer in Los Angeles?

> I've been 
> warned that southern California is a beer wasteland,
> but can anyone 
> recommend a good brewpub or good beer bar?  I'll be
> staying in Sherman Oaks 
> but will be mobile and will probably be in West
> Hollywood at night.

>From Sherman Oaks it's about a 20-30 minute drive (off
peak) to Lucky Baldwins, one of the best pubs to be
found on the West Coast, for certain.  Located at 17
Raymond Av in Pasadena, just about a block from
Colorado Blvd.  Also in Pasadena is Craftsman Brewing
Co, at 1270 Lincoln Avenue #800.

A little further east in San Gabriel is the Stuffed
Sandwich, which has a phenomenal selection.  If you go
to the Stuffed Sandwich, you will have to buy one
first, a requirement of their license.

Closer to your hotel is BJ's Brewhouse in Woodland
Hills, about a 15 minute drive, just shoot west down
the 101 to Canoga and go north 2 miles.  Excellent
APA, Stout, Irish Red, plus whatever they have on
cask, and a very good selection of bottled Belgians.

About the only place I know in the West Hollywood area
that has a few decent micros on tap is Barney's
Beanery, an institution for decades.

Check out Beer Advocate's BeerFly reviews here:
http://beeradvocate.com/beerfly/city/9/

Elsewhere, in the average restaurant, SNPA is fairly
common, Anchor less so.

Oh, one last thing, if you're here on the 5th, you're
welcome to stop in at the Maltose Falcons meeting,
1:00 pm, email me for info.  Hope that helps,

Kent Fletcher
Brewing in So Cal



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