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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  re-pitching question ("Steve Smith")
  Rapadura Sugar ("Steve Smith")
  Re: Hefe and temps ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  BJCP President's Letter? (Lee)
  RE: Hefe Temps ("Doug Moyer")
  Baltic Porter / Schwarzbier (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Bring the Mash to Mohammad (Bart Thielges)
  RE: Spruce tip tips? ("Jason Henning")
  S-04 at high temperatures ("Antony Hayes")
  Automagical Parti-Gyle Recipe Worksheet ("Chris Tweney")
  Re: Spruce tip tips? (Teresa Knezek)
  Pex (Ralph Link)
  Homebrew Supplies in Okinawa ("Michael Noah")


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:26:19 -0700
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: re-pitching question

I just brewed my biggest beer yet, a barleywine with 1.114 OG, but due to 
backordered yeast and a disappearing window of opportunity to brew, pitched 
only a one-quart starter with an inch of slurry at the bottom of the jar. 
Although after a couple days the airlock is bubbling away vigorously, I 
realize that I will benefit from pitching more yeast in the secondary.  What 
is the best method to do this?  I was thinking that when I rack to the 
secondary, I will harvest some of the slurry from the bottom of the primary 
fermenter, and use a little to build another starter to reinoculate the 
barleywine.  Should I pitch the additional starter slurry as soon as the 
starter is done, or as Szamatulski's usually suggest, wait to add it three 
days prior to bottling?  I assume that the barleywine will continue to 
ferment in the secondary for a couple months (the little-detailed homemade 
recipe was passed on to me)...  I cannot top-harvest the yeast now and pitch 
that as soon as the beer goes to the secondary because I am being called 
away for important business... a three-day steelhead fishing trip!  The day 
before brewing the barleywine, I also began fermenting a 1.070 belgian 
dubbel with the same type of one-quart starter.  Do you think I should 
re-pitch that one too?  Just like on the river, I appreciate any hot tips! 
Also, out of curiosity, do you think that my mistaken ommission of Irish 
Moss from the barleywine will detract from its taste and mouthfeel, or will 
it just be cloudy?

Thanks to ye learned brewers and chemists,
Steve Smith
Missoula, MT 




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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 21:45:04 -0700
From: "Steve Smith" <sasmith at in-tch.com>
Subject: Rapadura Sugar

I bought myself Randy Mosher's "Radical Brewing" for Christmas.  Great book 
Randy!  He discusses the use of adjunct sugars in brewing, especially 
partially refined sugars, and that people might try some of the types he 
suggests, or experimenting with other sugars.  I recently brewed a belgian 
dubbel, and in place of belgian candy sugar used turbinado sugar with a 
touch of rapadura sugar.  I'm curious if anyone has any knowledge of 
rapadura, and if you believe it is desireable for brewing.  It is a very 
dark (unrefined) sugar that is partly powdery, partly granular, that I found 
in my local organic food store.

Cheers,
Steve Smith 




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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:21:28 +1030
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Hefe and temps

On Thursday,  3 February 2005 at  9:01:02 -0500, leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu wrote:
> Someone, please refresh my memory: Was it the higher end of the
> temperature range on many hefe yeasts that yielded the bananna
> flavor, and the lower end that favored the clove?

All yeasts are Hefe yeasts.  Hefe is the German word for yeast.

> I am getting ready to use wlp300, and want to attempt to do several
> batches, one high, another low, to see if I can create these
> differences.

That's a Wei{imagine a prohibited letter for 'ss' here]bier yeast, so
I suppose you're thinking abut Hefeweibier.

I didn't know that the fermentation temperature would influence the
clove flavours.  That's more due to the mash (rest at 44[imagine a
prohibited word for degree here]C, about 111[imagine a prohibited word
for degree here]F), which allows the formation of ferulic acid, which
the yeast then converts to 4-Vinyl guaiacol (clove) and 4-Vinyl phenol
(vanilla).

The banana aroma comes from isopentyl acetate, an ester formed at
higher temperatures.

On Friday,  4 February 2005 at 15:31:55 -0500, HomeBrewUSA wrote:
> Darrell asks about Hefe temps....
>
> In my experience with WLP300 I have discovered that it gives BIG bannana if
> fermented at a steady 73 degrees F.  I have not tried a lower temp yet but
> the rules I know are higher = more bannana lower = more clove

I'd agree with the former; I'm not aware of the latter.  Does anybody
else have comments?

A web page of interest is Hubert Hanghofer's "Wei{imagine a prohibited
letter for 'ss' here]bier Compass" at
http://www.netbeer.org/english/index.htm.  It's a little old now, and
I'm not sure that Hubert would still agree about his comments on the
banana flavour there.

Now which flavours do you want?  There's some anecdotal evidence that
high levels of isopentyl acetate encourage hangovers.

Also, in a recent message to the Auatralian craftbrewers list, he
wrote:

> According to my reading and experience it's the barley malt that
> generates most of the ferulic acid. So if you want to pronounce
> clovey character you should aim for 50:50

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 07:03:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Lee <uvajmu1967 at yahoo.com>
Subject: BJCP President's Letter?

Did any one read the president's letter and
financials that have been posted on the BJCP web
site?  Does anyone care that aparently $65K of the
BJCP treasury has been embezzelled?  Does anyoen
care that the past president has been kicked out of
the BJCP?  Does anyone care that there is a criminal
investigation underway (I would think so!)?  So what
happened hear?  
  
Lee




		


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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:19:52 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Hefe Temps

I was a steward at the Spirit of Belgium competition last month. One of the
judges at my table was Chris White (White Labs). I asked him about the
effects of temperature on esters/phenols (bananas/cloves). He said that he
believed that while higher temps increase the esters, lower temps DO NOT
increase phenols. Instead, they reduce the esters enough to allow the
phenols to be more readily evident. He said that phenols actually increase
with temp, but at a much lower rate than do the esters.


Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Shzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html






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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 10:57:36 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu>
Subject: Baltic Porter / Schwarzbier

Guten tag!

In response to my query on pressure-cooker pseudo-decoction, Randy 
Mosher offers interesting tidbits on Schwarzbier. As it turns out, 
Randy's own /Radical Brewing/ (which I'm reading right now) contains 
some more information on the connection between Schwarzbier and Porter 
with a recipe for a ruby-brown Schwarzbier on page 113.

We're planning this beer as a team (cheesily called "Team Bruheat"): 
John "MadMan" Misrahi and AleX Enkerli.

Randy's comments connect quite directly to our brewing plans. This beer 
isn't supposed to be "to-style" as neither of us is a "style-freak" (PC 
version of another term, related to the Seinfeld show, which would be 
utterly inappropriate here).
Both John and I are maltheads.

The idea for this brew relates in part to an amazing Schwarzbier made 
by Jon Westphal of Hampton, New Brunswick. That beer was, in fact, very 
similar to some examples of Baltic Porter. (At least, to the one 
usually brewed at the Czech/German l'Amere a boire brewpub in Montreal 
and the Baltika Dark.) Another inspiration is a "Smoked Belgian Porter" 
JohnM brewed with fellow MontreAler Marc Letourneau. Not to mention a 
batch of lagered Scotch Ale JohnM brewed recently.

As far as I can see, the main thing making ours more of a Baltic Porter 
than a Schwarzbier (even the ruby-brown one) is the higher OG and lower 
roastiness. But it seems like the connection between a Schwarzbier and 
(Baltic) Porter is similar to that of Stout and Porter (which overlap 
quite a bit).

So far, our grain bill appears to be a kitchen-sink version of Randy's 
/Radical Brewing/ recipe as we plan to put: a mix of Pale Malts 
(Gambrinus, Dingemans...), some Munich, Carafa Spezial I (dehusked), 
and Crystal Malt 70-80, along with a bit each of Home-Toasted Malt, 
Brown Malt, Chocolate Malt, and Flaked Wheat. Step-mashed in a 
Bruheat+grainbag, converting at somewhat high temperature, couple of 
weird methods (including the pressure-cooking), lowish hop bittering, 
no late hop addition, possibly some vanilla, maybe oak in secondary...
This'll be pitched with S-23 slurry and lagered for a while.
Should be fun!

AleX in South Bend, IN
[129.7mi, 251.5] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 15:48:33 -0800
From: Bart Thielges <bart at landport.net>
Subject: Bring the Mash to Mohammad

Howdy all : I've dropped out of the HBD digest view since
about 1996 but now back almost a decade later.  And I have
a question for the oracle :

I've recently started trying a stepped temperature mash using
the steam injection technique as described here :
   http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.4/jones.html

I constructed my system almost exactly as described in that
article.  The steam injection works great for transferring heat
directly into my mash, but I am having a problem that I did not
experience with my former single temperature infusion mash.
I get lots of hot and cold spots and even though I stir constantly
with a large SS metal spoon.  I can't seem to get even heat
distribution.  The hot spots are naturally in the center of the
mash tun directly over the steam injector.  The cold spots
are in the corners.

So I had the idea that rather stirring the mash over the steam,
why not move the steam around the mash ?  I'm thinking of
building a new steam injector of fairly stiff 3/4" copper pipe
in an "L" configuration, the lower and shorter part of the L
being drilled with holes to release the steam.  The lower
hole riddled part of the L pipe would be 10" long which is
the smallest dimension of my mash tun : a converted picnic
cooler.  I would be able to jam that device right into the
cold corners if needed to heat them up.

With such a device I could move it around to just about
anywhere in the mash to "hit" the cool spots.  I'd need
to find a length of flexible hose (preferably insulated)
that can handle steam temperatures and pressures :
if anyone has any suggestions on where to look for
such a high-temp food grade hose, lemme know. 
That flexible length of hose would connect the
L to the the steam generator.

Does this sound like a reasonable idea ?  Or am I missing
an obvious easier solution ? Maybe a special mash rake
to evenly "turn" the mash would be a better idea.

Thanks,
Bart



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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 22:23:51 -0500
From: "Jason Henning" <jason at thehennings.com>
Subject: RE: Spruce tip tips?

I sent a copy of Teresa Knezek's spruce question to Mike O'Brien and this is 
his response. Mike's spruce beer is the only example I've found to be 
drinkable and not just carbonated turpentine.

- --------------------

Response to Spruce tip tips.
I do a historical brewing demonstration where the mash tun is a half
of a whiskey barrel with a hole in the bottom for a drain. The
'screen' is either straw or spruce tips. When I use the straw it does
not add much flavor to the beer. But the spruce in wonderful!  For
those looking for an inexpensive mash screen check out these options
 - they have been used for centuries!

The key here is the spruce is never heated above mash
temperatures.This draws out only the most beautiful delicate spruce
character and leaves the turpentine behind . I use a 'brown paper
grocery bag full' as my unit of measure. (that is about 7#) Yes -
pound of spruce tips for a 10 gallon batch. Using the spruce in the
mash - I really don't think that you can use to much spruce nor do
you have to use exclusively tips. Boughs would stay on the bottom of
the mash tun better.

This past year we used some of the rocks from our fire ring to help
hold down the filter bed. This added a very nice delicate smokey
character to our historical brews.

Mike O'Brien




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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 19:32:41 +0200
From: "Antony Hayes" <anthayes at telkomsa.net>
Subject: S-04 at high temperatures

I am fermenting an English style IPA using DCL's S04. Unfortunately the fan 
on the fridge for my fermenter packed in just before pitching, and I only 
managed to fix it 16 hours later.

So the beer fermented at about 29C (84F) for about 16 hours. It is now 
fermenting at 24C (75F)

Would anyone care to guess what impact this will have on the flavour 
profile?

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg 



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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:41:50 -0800
From: "Chris Tweney" <ctweney at sonic.net>
Subject: Automagical Parti-Gyle Recipe Worksheet

Fellow brewers--

Out of frustration with ProMash's limitations for the parti-gyle brewer, I
formulated a comprehensive spreadsheet that figures out (nearly) everything
you need to know. It even works out hop calculations for the second beer,
which I boil on top of the first beer's partially-spent hops.

You can get the spreadsheet here:

http://www.sonic.net/~ctweney/parti_gyle.htm

If anyone finds it useful, I'd love to hear about it!

 -chris.



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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:24:10 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <mivox.mail at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spruce tip tips?

Well wow. Thanks to everyone who wrote back about the spruce tips...
the majority opinion seems to be to use them like hops... either added
at the beginning, 30 minute or 15 minute mark during the boil, which
is what I will try this time. Another suggestion was to use a large
quantity of spruce during the mash, which I suppose I'll try if this
batch doesn't suit my fancy... and one helpful soul warned against
using 70-odd spruce tips for dry-hopping, unless I enjoy drinking
pine-sol.

I also picked up a pound of rauch malt at the shop yesterday, figuring
I could toss that in as well, and with the smoke and spruce flavors
have something like a camping trip in a bottle when it's done
(hopefully without the undertones of unbathed campers). We'll see how
that works. I've yet to brew something undrinkable, so hopefully the
trend will continue. ;-)
- -- 
Teresa 'mivox' Knezek
 
[2855.5, 325deg] AR


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Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:54:52 -0600
From: Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>
Subject: Pex

Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding using PEX pipe in a
RIMS system
Thanks Ralph Link
- -- 
Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca>



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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:59:33 +0000
From: "Michael Noah" <physaliaos at hotmail.com>
Subject: Homebrew Supplies in Okinawa

I'm new at homebrewing and I've just been lurking on this listbot for a 
while. I'm with the U.S. Army over in Okinawa, Japan at the moment, so I've 
had to rely on the internet for my supplies and guidance. I have my first 
5-gallons of extra pale ale fermenting in a bucket right now, and I'm 
getting pretty eager to start taste-testing [SMILE]

My question to the group - Does anyone know of a homebrew supplier here on 
Okinawa? With all of the folks that eventually rotate out of here and head 
back stateside, I'm betting that someone has left here recently, but managed 
to find a supplier to satisfy their needs during their tour of duty.

As a note: I've heard that Japan discourages homebrewing, and that's not 
hard to believe - I've lived in Japan for the better part of the past 11 
years (like for about 10 of them), and the country doesn't encourage 
anything that would serve to take money out of the "Japan, Inc.'s" pocket. I 
could see where the hobby could be perceived as decreasing revenues (even if 
imperceptivity) from the corporate breweries of Kirin, Sapporo and Asahi, 
and even the local Okinawa's Orion.

Just wondering...

On-On!!
Michael "a.k.a., Namako"




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