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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Hop Planting ("Chad Stevens")
  Re: Electric HLT (Scott McAfee)
  Hops in TX ("Dave Burley")
  SafAle 56 American Ale Yeast (Scott Birdwell)
  Re: Electric Brewery ("Mike Sharp")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:31:48 -0800
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: Hop Planting

Randy Scott asks where to plant his hops.

I have collected a number of wild hop rhizomes.  The vast majority are found 
on southern or south-western exposures in well drained, sandy soil with lots 
of decomposed matter and LOTS of water (like a spring) running through the 
area.  Full sun or a few hours of shade at most.

Good luck,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego

Then trust me, there's nothing like drinking
So pleasant on this side the grave;
It keeps the unhappy from thinking,
And makes e'en the valiant more brave.

Charles Dibden, Nothing Like Grogg (1745-1814) 



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Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:48:13 -0500
From: Scott McAfee <scmcafee at cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electric HLT

Thanks for the great feedback on my questions.

Craig, Todd, and Kent answered, with good 
equations, my (poorly asked) question of:

2) How long does it take 2000W to heat up 
15 gallons of water?

I'm really just planning to use a spare Sankey 
keg w/element as a second HLT in conjunction 
with a 15g propane HLT to give me the volume 
I need without buying a 30g container.  I 
don't mind starting it up hours before sparging.
Using a specific heat capacity equation similar to 
Todd's (I broke down and opened my college 
Physics text last night.  Did you know a
Calorimeter is essentially an electric HLT?),
I figured I could go from 60F to 180F in about 
2 hours if the 2000W element is 100% efficient 
in transferring heat.  So my first follow up
question is:

Has anyone calculated the efficiency of a hot 
water heater element on a well insulated system
based on its power rating?  I guess to be really
scientific you'd have to include the heat capacity
of the Sankey in measuring the theoretical
vs. the real world.

I also mentioned I planned to put the element 
on the bottom of the Keg with the flange adapter.  
Always read the HBD responses _before_ you drill 
holes in your Stainless.

	Todd said:  "I'm not sure mounting the 
	element on the bottom is a good idea, 
	that's where any leaks or boil over 
	will end up."

I may be unwise, but I'm using a 20amp GFI and 
since it's just an HLT, I don't expect it to 
boil over unless I screw up my temperature 
controller. Whatever I do, I'll make sure I have 
a good seal and keep an eye on it.  Maybe use 
some silicone sealant and a tube to protect the 
wires and housing.  

	Kent said: "Good luck with the flange 
	adapter.  It has no relationship to a 
	bulkhead fitting, it's made to be able 
	to install a screw-in element on a water 
	heater that has a matching four bolt 
	flange. Might as well return it to HD 
	before you ruin your keg."

Sigh, so true.  Not the first keg I (maybe) ruined.
But that's homebrewing--learning, not failure.
I did actually tap the 4 screw holes with a 
1/4-20 tap.  I now have some SS self-sealing 
o-ring machine screws on order from Mcmaster-Carr.
For those planning to do something similar, listen
to your HBD elders that tell you to just get 
the SS 1" NPS nut.  Now I have to decide whether 
I still put the element on the bottom (might work) 
or put my unused 1" polypropylene bulkhead on the 
bottom for a drain, and put the element somewhere
else (with the 1" NPS nut, of course).  So my second
question is:  

Do you have to flatten the hole wherever you put the 
element (on the curved side of the keg, for instance)?
I know from experience that I'm bad at metalwork 
that involves hammers.  I did add to the order an 
appropriate hole saw and 1" NPS nut, just in case.

Thanks,
Scott





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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 09:08:13 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Hops in TX

Brewsters,

Randy Scott plans on planting hops in TX and asks where to plant his hops and 
what kind.

Well, you will have plenty of sunlight hours as Washington and Oregon grow the 
Hops in the US at present, supplanting New York state hops industry of 
yesteryear. I planted my hops here in SC on the east side of a two story 
building, just because that end was available and the hops wouldn't cook in 
the late afternoon heat and lose those hop oils. Check out this Rutgers Univ 
project ( obviously started by a homebrewer) 
http://www.rce.rutgers.edu/burlington/hops.htm

What is most important is that you can get your hops up a string about 15 -18 
ft.  That may be the determining factor for you.

There are also some innovative ways to string them up and bring them down to 
harvest if you can't put a ladder up against a building.  I have read about 
telephone poles and the like with a cable between them on  a pulley. Twine 
attached to this cable supports the bines ( not vines) and can be lowered 
using a pulley system to pick. Remember you are growing a large and heavy 
sail, so a healthy support is necessary.

It is important to not crowd the hops as they are very susceptible to mildews, 
esp powdery ( but I'd guess downy Mildew did the deed to NYS, as this mildew 
doesn't exist much west of the Mississippi river) . You may choose to spray 
them early in the year ( check with your local Ag agent for schedule and spray 
composition) before bloom. Giving plenty of  air circulation is important. 
Also, cut ( and eat like asparagus) all but about 4 or 5 of the sprouts from 
each root  ( after the first year) in the early spring to limit the amount of 
vegetation and wind loading.

Commercially hops are  cut down and harvested all at once, variety by variety. 
You don't have to do that.  You can harvest your hops as they mature ( papery 
and sl yellow in most cases) and if you plant more than one variety you will 
have a long harvest season.  Pick every 3 days or so.

Burn a little sulfur under the green hops in the drying chamber after you pick 
them to prevent mold from developing during the early drying, and don't stack 
them too deep, esp in wet weather. This sulfur dioxide treatment ( typical of 
British hops treatment ) also seems to take away a grassy taste ( from 
bacterial fermentation??) too common in home grown hops.

If you make real lager, go for Saaz.  And Ales, go for East Kent Goldings and 
Fuggles. There are also some funny things about accurate hops ID in US grown 
hops which has been straightened out by DNA, so ask the supplier for the 
latest on this subject, esp with German hops.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley 




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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:19:15 -0600
From: Scott Birdwell <defalcos at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: SafAle 56 American Ale Yeast

H. Dowda wrote:
"Subject: SafAle 56 American Ale
This product is on the Crosby and Baker web site.  Is
anyone selling it?"

If you're interested in this product, contact us off-list.  We'll fill 
you in on the details.

Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
Houston  TX
www.defalcos.com



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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:36:53 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Brewery

1.  "And don't be afraid of 220 V, it's actually only 110 V if you 
accidentally touch a hot wire, just like "regular" power."

While the voltage to ground/neutral is nominally 110 v, I hope it's clear 
that this doesn't make it safe.  It only takes 100 milliamperes through the 
chest to kill you.  Also, 120volt breakers (single pole, 15 and 20 amp) from 
some manufacturers use magnetic trips in addition to a thermal trip.  That 
means a Square-D breaker will trip nearly instantly in a fault condition. 
Bryant also has single pole breakers with magnetic trips.  A 2 pole breaker 
usually does not have this magnetic trip.  So a 220V circuit is not as 
"safe" as a 110V circuit that uses a magnetic trip.  That said, you should 
never be careless in either case and depend on this to save your butt.

2.  "To anyone thinking electric brewing might not be safe, consider all the 
people out there bathing and showering in water being simultaneously heated 
by electricity in their hot water tanks!  And those are not GFI protected"

Remember, an electric hot water heater is grounded.  You don't take a bath 
in the hot water heater, but you might reach into a pail. The purpose of a 
good ground connection is to ensure that the overcurrent device will open in 
the event of a fault.  In other words, it ensures that there is plenty of 
fault current available.  If you use an electric heater in your converted 
keg, make sure the  keg is well grounded.  Note that electrically heated hot 
tubs have a "current collector" that completely encloses the heating 
element.  This is redundantly grounded (an internal ground through the power 
line, and an external ground that is also bonded to the motor). This ensures 
that the fault current path is from the failed heater to the current 
collector and through the ground back to the panel.  You never want to be R1 
to ground!

3. "I bent two of my elements 90 degrees by placing them in a tubing bender, 
the two legs fit into the bender in the 1/4 and 3/8" slots as close to the 
threaded end as possible.  No need to heat it to bend it, they're made of 
copper tubing. "

Some may be made of copper, others of stainless, and some of inconel.  But, 
yes, they can be bent.  How else would the manufacturer get them in that 
nice U shape?  No need to use heat for this!  Bending carries the risk of 
damaging the heater, though.  You'd have to bend both legs of a basic U 
shape at the same time to prevent kinking.  Personally, I'd be nervous about 
bending one leg in a 1/4 die and the other in a 3/8 die.  Perhaps you could 
go back and forth, bending each leg a little at a time.  But, yes use a 
tubing bender!

4. "1) can you heat up and bend those elements without damaging them?"
"No.  Don't try it, you'll just destroy the element. Think about it:  Heater 
elements burn themselves out in a very short time if energized dry, and it 
would take a lot more heat that that to be able to bend the rod"

Well, don't use heat.  You can buy heating rods in straight lengths from 
various manufacturers, and bend them to suit, as long as you do it in a 
tubing bender.  There is always the risk of damaging the rod, though.

Regards,
Mike Sharp


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