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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Chinook Substitute ("Dave Burley")
  Growing hops in Central Texas (Dave Wills)
  Allagash White ("Brian Dougan")
  Flaked Rice vs. White Rice ("Janie Curry")
  Rye Hefe (leavitdg)
  re: electric brewery (Moses Rocket)


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:05:44 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net>
Subject: Chinook Substitute

Brewsters:

Grant Stott from Oz says in his quest to reproduce BridgePort IPA:

"Secondly it seems that the only US hops that I can get are cascades so can
someone suggest alternatives for Chinook ( I'm thinking bittering being not
so important I could use Horizon)
& Crystal."

BTW I believe Crystal is a spicey American grown version of Hallertauer 
Mittelfruh. If you can source Crystal from the US why not Chinook?

I did a quick net search for a substitute and found this:

http://www.homebrewheaven.com/chinook-hops---2-oz.htm
 .
Typically 12.5% AA. Newer version released from Washington state in 1985. This 
hop has Golding ancestry. The hops have a rich, pronounced aroma and are 
versatile for bittering. (Substitute: Eroica, Bullion)

From

http://www.vanpoots.com/beer/hops.htm

"American "C" hops (Cascade, Columbus, Chinook, Centennial) have distinctive 
flavor and aroma that many describe as citrus-like. They are widely used in 
American-style ales. Some commercial examples which feature the "C" hops are 
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Red Seal Pale Ale, Anchor Liberty Ale, and Bigfoot 
Barleywine. I highly recommend these hops for American pale ales, American 
amber ales, and American IPAs. They are not, in my opinion, appropriate in 
English ales, Belgian ales, German ales, or any lager beer."

- ----------------------------

Well, I have to agree these American derived hops are not appropriate to 
European ales or lagers.  I agree with Homebrew Heaven ( no affiliation) that 
the licoricey ( my description)  taste of Bullion ( old timey British hop 
which may be available in Oz) has some of the characteristic taste many 
younger US brewers find almost objectionable with this Chinook hop. It is 
therefore used as a bitttering hop only, and even there its flavor provides a 
background. Oregonians ( home of hops and hoppy beers in the US) are used to 
this flavor and higher average bitterness moreso than the rest of the US. If 
you can get Bullion, I'd use that at about 1.5 to 2X the hopping rate for 
Chinook. One thing you can be sure of is that others will disagree with me on 
this subject.

- ------------------

AlK in his "Homebrewing" book p447 says about Chinook

Chinook is a very high alpha hop which for some reason, has gained a 
reputation for having a rather rough character. My experience shows that its 
bitterness is just as smooth as many hops of much lower alpha acid. Chinook 
has a pleasant but intense aroma, slightly spicey and very piney. They are 
like a cross between Saaz and a pine forest. Substitutes : for bittering, a 
high alpha hop, such as Eroica,Galena or Nugget. For aroma/flavor, the pine 
character is unlike any other hop, however Southern Cross has bit spicey and 
piney character although in different proportions. Sticklebract is quite piney 
also. Saaz, Crystal and Tettnanger would give a similar spiceyness as Chinook.

- ------------------

http://www.kascak.com/users/Tom/beer/hops_table.htm

says about the ancestry and pretty much agrees with AlK

      Chinook bittering domestic 12-14 percent 3-4percent 65-70percent galena, 
cluster, nugget
      Cross between Petham Golding and USDA Select Male. Released in 1985 and 
becoming popular.

      Aroma: Mild to medium-heavy, spicy, distinct piney aroma.

      Used For: Strong bittering ability. All American Lagers and Ales.



When I visit Oregon I can still pick out Chinook bittered beers and my opinion 
remains the same.

Based on AlK's analysis I'd get some Southern Cross and Sticklebract from the 
Kiwis and start there with some Pride of Ringwood thrown in, but Bullion is 
closer IMHO.

Keep on Brewin'

Dave Burley








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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:28:53 -0800
From: Dave Wills <dave at freshops.com>
Subject:   Growing hops in Central Texas

For further insight I emailed retired hop geneticist Al Haunold with 
the question about growing hops in S. Texas.
He developed Cascade, Willamette, Nugget, Mt. Hood and more.
Here is his response:
  Latitude 31 degrees is a bit out of the
normal ecological range for hops.  It is the daylength rather than the
temperature,  the latter could be overcome with sufficient watering (drip
irrigation should work fine).  As far as the direction and location of plants
goes, it does not seem to matter too much.

The daylength during the critical months of rapid growth  (from early May to
mid-June could be supplemented with a simple 100 watt bulb, say setting the
timer to go on about 8 PM until midnight, that would help.  After mid-June
it does not matter anymore.  Also, hops should not be trained too early,
even if growth has appeared and is quite vigorous.  That should be pruned
back, and new growth retrained not earlier than the first week of May.

  Cascade would be about as good a choice as any, but it would
produce some sterile male flowers at such latitudes, I have seen that in
northern Mexico (Monterey area), but it still produced good cone set.
   Perhaps Nugget, or Brewers Gold, but I have no experience with
those in southern latitudes.  Willamette or Kent Goldings probably are a no,
but one would have to experiment.
- -- 
Hoppily,
Dave Wills
Purveyor of fine hops


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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:17:26 +0000
From: "Brian Dougan" <dougan_b at hotmail.com>
Subject: Allagash White

Well, been on a brewing and posting hiatus and it is time to break out of 
it.  I am looking for an extract AND an all-grain recipe for Allagash White. 
  Thanks in advance for any help.

 -Brian




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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:34:55 +0000
From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com>
Subject: Flaked Rice vs. White Rice

I'm looking at an ale recipe on the ProMash website called American Ale.  It 
calls for flaked rice.  I don't have any flaked rice and I plan to brew with 
a friend this weekend.  The nearest HBS is a 100 mile round trip.

How much (dry or cooked) white rice equals a pound of flaked white rice?

All of my reference books are still in storage.  How do you do a cereal 
mash?

Todd in Fort Collins



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Date: Thu,  3 Mar 2005 17:17:54 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Rye Hefe

For those of you who like Hefe:
I just put one into secondary
that had 1.5 lb of Rye malt in 
it, and the taste is very good.

If you have not tried this, it 
adds a certain "snap" that I
really like.

Happy Brewing!

Darrell




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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:01:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Moses Rocket <mosesrocket at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: electric brewery

<<Grounding anything heated by an electric element
can't be stressed enough.  The tricky thing is that a
ground on your kettle is something that you will
have to add, there's no ground lug on the element,
just the two 'hot'  connectors.  That's why I also
wrote but wasn't quoted by Mike as saying:  "making
sure everything is grounded.  This includes the kettle
near the element. "  >>

Oh my gosh - I boil my wort in an aluminum kettle  on
my electric stove using an electric heating element
(not much different that those hot water heater
elements, only curled up differently) !! My kettle is
not grounded, and its resting on that electric heating
element with 240 volts flowing throught it. That
element gets lots of abuse from pots banging and
rubbing on it.  Should I be Worried????  

I think not.  But I do like that design with the
electric heating element on a handle that you stick
into the kettle.  No need to put holes in your kettle,
and you can use the element to stir with too, maybe
boost your mash a few degrees if necessary.  Anyone
remember the link to that?

Moses


	
		


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