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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Wyeast, moldy taps, counter pressure bottle filler. (Ken Schriner)
  Re: INDEX (att!drutx!homer)
  Polycar (Gerald Andrew Winters)
  snowbrew, glass primary fermentors (cckweiss)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #472 (August 10, 1990) (sbsgrad)
  bottle cappers (FRISRM)
  ice-based wort chiller (Chip Hitchcock)
  Artificial Carbonation (Ken Ellinwood)
  Chillin' (David Baer)
  beer tasting in Boston (Alan Duester)
  Lagering (Patrick J. Waara)
  Thanks for the help with over-carbonation! (Keith Winter)
  Sour Smelling Beer ("John P. Quintana")
  oatmeal stout (jay s hersh)


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Date:         Mon, 13 Aug 90 08:19:10 CDT
From: Ken Schriner <KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      Wyeast, moldy taps, counter pressure bottle filler.

I've read a lot over the last two months about Wyeast.  I've brewed for
many years with Edme dry yeast, but I'm interested in trying some
Wyeast.  I asked the people at Wines, Inc, but they don't carry it.  Can
someone post to the list or send me the name, address, and phone number
of a mail order company that carries Wyeast?

I have kegged all of my homebrew for the last six years.  For several years
I used a hand held tap.  I never had any problems with mold forming on the
end of it.  I think that is because the hose and tap were always stored in
the beer refrigerator.  I replaced it with a through-the-door tap, and ever
since then have had problems with mold forming on the part of the tap that
sticks through the door.  If I get lazy, or forget to check it, the mold will
eventually work its way up into the tap.  Running very hot (close to boiling)
water through the system once a week doesn't seem to prevent this problem.
Nothing seems to work except disassembling the entire tap, boiling and hand
cleaning it.  A very tiresome procedure.  How do bars handle this problem?
Do they use something besides boiling water to sterilize?  Would a different
tap help?  I'm planning on trying covering the tap with a balloon (or something
similar) when its not in use.  Comments?

Chuck Cox recently announced that he had a stainless steel counter pressure
bottle filler for filling bottles.  Could you please provide more details?
Where did you get it?  How does it operate?  Does it work well?  Thanks.

Ken Schriner                           BITNET : KS06054 at UAFSYSB
220 ADSB, Computing Services         Internet : KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU
University of Arkansas
Fayetteville, AR   72701                        (501) 575-2905

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 09:02:01 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!drutx!homer

From: Jim Homer (att!drutx!homer)
Subject: Re: INDEX

Gary Benson sez-
> I keep reading about all the work that the readership has been doing towards
> indexing Papazian's book, and would like to suggest that someone who has
> been doing that ought to contact Mr. Papazian and offer the index for the
> next printing.
etc....

And from Chuck Cox:
>Charlie is well aware of the various indices available, and has mentioned
>on at least one occasion that he appreciates and supports the effort.
>At this year's national conference, the AHA was freely distributing a nicely
>formatted index that was the same size as the book.

This index is a combination of the several indexs that have been available,
including the one on this net.  It is available by sending a SASE to the
AHA; PO Box 287; Boulder, CO 80306.  A 5 by 6 inch envelope is best.

There will be a revised edition of CJoB, expected out at the end of 1991.
The publisher will allow more pages and Charlie can rewrite any part of the
book he wishes to.  The revised book will have an index.  Suggestions
for what to revise can be sent to Charlie, email to me, post to
this net or Compuserve.


Jim Homer
att!drutx!homer


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 10:59:56 EDT
From: gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters)
Subject: Polycar

Robert A. Gorman writes:

> In Miller's book he recommends Polycar.  He says this will create some
> foaming and Carbon Dioxide will be released, thus purging the air from
> above the beer.  Well I tried this in my last batch, and I noticed no
> such foaming and my sour type flavor was still their.  However this
> batch did come out to be my clearest beer yet!  I think the Polycar
> caued this result, after all it's a fining agent.

  I can't comment on the sour flavor you describe but I have used
polycar in about 12 or so batches.  The amount I use comes in packets 
of 1/4 oz.  I have used 1/2 oz. sizes also.  From my experience
this is the acceptable range.  If you followed Miller's steps then
there is one pitfall he does not outline.  Miller recommends diverting
a small amount of beer into a pan and then stirring in the polycar 
before pitching into a fermenter.  To create the effusion of CO2 you 
must add the polycar mixture to the fermenter immediately -- no lag time. 
I remember one batch I diverted some wort into a pan at the begining
of the process, added the polycar and waited for the beer to completly
fill the new fermenter/clearing tank.  The zing was not there, no CO2.  
Because of this experience, I don't add the polycar to the pan until
the fermenter has been completly racked.  And then add the polycar
solution as quickly as possible after it has been suffiently mixed.
  One final observation.  1/4 oz. polycar does not cause foaming, 1/2
oz. will.  However 1/4 oz. causes an airlock to kick like mad for about
5 minutes.

 gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters)

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 08:52:28 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: snowbrew, glass primary fermentors


So, I'm not crazy after all... The snowflakes described by Keith Thompson
are *exactly* what I am seeing in my beer. I sent Keith a detailed post
of my recipes and procedures, so we can compare and see if there's a
common element.

A question for those of you using glass primary fermentors - How do
you get five gallons of hops-filled wort strained and inside a glass
carboy without making a HUGE mess? I thought of a big funnel, but it
seems like once the hops started collecting in the strainer section
the flow rate would be too slow. Please to enlighten me!

Ken Weiss
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date:    Sat, 11 Aug 90 20:34:49 GMT
From: sbsgrad%sdphs2.span at Sds.Sdsc.Edu
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #472 (August 10, 1990)

From: "Sparky" <sslade at ucsd.edu> (Steve Slade) 
Date sent:  11-AUG-1990 13:28:50 PT 

John Lohr asks:

>re: overcarbonization
>I have been brewing with a variety of malt extracts.  I have used both sugar
>and honey as additives to the malt extract.  Almost every batch has, with 
>time, been overcarbonated.  Since I have used a variety of malt extracts, 
>fermentable sugars and yeasts, no ingredient has been a common denominator.
>I have also tried letting the beer sit in the secondary carboy to ensure 
>that all fermentation is complete.  Even these batches, after a period of
>being quite flat, eventualy produce overcarbonization.  Once the foam
>settles the beer tastes quite nice.  My only real problem seems to be 
>too much gas production.  Is there something in my technique thats causing
>this?  Of nearby fellow brewers some experience this same problem, whereas
>others never experience it.  We're all basically do the same thing.

Exactly the same thing happened to me with my first three batches of 
homebrew.  Various sugars were used as additives, always with the resultant 
beer being at first flat, then more and more carbonated.  In addition, the 
carbonation was "thin", that is, it went away quickly like a soda's would.  
This condition actually made me stop brewing for about a year, until I 
started reading this digest.  Following the advice of many helpful 
suggestions made in this digest, I began to brew again, but used steeped 
grains as the additive (removed from the brewing water just as it comes to 
a boil) and also switched to liquid yeast.  I don't know which of the two 
changes is responcible, but my brew now has perfect carbonation in every 
bottle!

My advice: don't use sugar as the additive.  Steeped grains are easy to 
use, and add a great deal to extract brews.

A question for the readership: Was the exploding Wyeast problem ever 
resolved?  Is there a consensus on how long one can safely wait with a 
fully puffed pouch before it will explode?

Thanks for all the great advice!

Sparky

Internet:            sslade at ucsd.edu        UUCP:              ...ucsd!sslade
Bitnet:              sslade at ucsd.bitnet     DECnet/SPAN:       SDPH1::SBSGRAD

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Date:         Mon, 13 Aug 90 13:00:24 EDT
From: FRISRM%morekypr at pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject:      bottle cappers


    Has anyone tried to make their own bottle capper?  I've been bottling
into mason jars and although I have learned to cope with drinking my
homebrew by the quart ;-) I would rather not have to buy another case of
jars to be able to age my beer and insure a constant supply.  So, I'm going
to try bottling (hopefully with a homemade bottle capper).  Any ideas
about how to make one would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Rick
    FRISRM at MOREKYPR

Resident equipment scrounger and potential founder of the Morehead brewing club

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 12:27:59 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.eng.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: ice-based wort chiller

   Your calculations neglect one factor: efficiency of transfer of heat. 5
gallons is almost a cubic foot. If you have only 4 feet of tubing in this
space, the immediate neighborhood of the tube will get quite warm without
necessarily distributing that heat to the rest of the ice bath. Also, crushed
ice, being solid, will mostly not be in contact with the tubing until the ice
melts. In practice, I'd expect that you wouldn't chill the wort nearly as
much as you calculate with this design---you might not even melt all the ice.
   I'd suggest \at/ \least/ enough water to cover the ice---preferably enough
that you can stir the bath or at least move the tube occasionally. You'd get
better contact/efficiency by mixing ice and salt and letting it slush, but
the salt would attack the copper (don't ask me how long the copper would
last).
   You also left out of your calculations the fact that if the ice were
melted, you'd still have 5 gallons of water at 32F, which means that in
theory the wort could wind up at (32+69)/2 = 50F. (Also the ice itself
probably averages 10-15F, since your freezer should be around 0F.) In
practice this will probably just make up for heat transfer from the
atmosphere to the bath unless you use a cooler to hold the ice/water.
   Something else I'd worry about in this rig: with that much temperature
drop you could get a hell of a cold break and pile up enough coagulated
protein to plug the tube. Depending on the brand, you can get protein even in
extract (you should see the fernlike sheets I found in a can of M&F Old Ale).

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 11:13:10 PDT
From: aimla!diamond!ken at suntzu.West.Sun.COM (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: Artificial Carbonation

In digest #437 Chuck Cox reports that ...

> Byron connects the CO2 to the down-tube, thus forcing the gas to
> bubble up through the beer, increasing the rate of absorption.
> I think this is a great idea, I just need to buy some more fittings
> and tubing to implement it.

Essentially we do the same thing, except that instead of connecting the
CO2 to the "out" side, we turn the keg upside down and then turn the CO2
on to allow it to bubble up through the beer.  Also, I have heard that
the absorbtion rate is much higher if the beer has been chilled first when
this technique is used.

 - Ken Ellinwood -

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 12:47:06 PDT
From: dsbaer at EBay.Sun.COM (David Baer)
Subject: Chillin'


In response to "mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com" 
regarding his wort chiller proposal to save water:

I also try to save water when I use my wort chiller.
I purchased an inexpensive ($25.00) fountain pump that
I attach to a short lenght of hose and place in the
bottom of a 20 gallon trash can. I fill the trash can
about 1/2 full with ice and water.  I use large
blocks of ice because they tend to keep the water
colder longer than crushed or cubes.  I then pump the 
water through the chiller and back into the trash can.
As I see the block of ice melt to almost nothing, I add
another one.  Typically  a chillin` session takes about
three blocks of ice and 20 minutes. The wort falls
from boiling (212 F to 80 F). If I need it colder then
I'll add cold water to the wort, but right now I am big
on ales and don't mind pitching at 80 F. 

I figure I use about 10 gallons of water
to chill the wort, clean the chiller and brewpot, 
and finally as a water bath to keep the temperature 
fairly constant.  

Dave Baer (Sun Microsystems, soon to be Stanford U.)


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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 16:33:26 EDT
From: capnal at aqua.whoi.edu (Alan Duester)
Subject: beer tasting in Boston

I just found out about a beer tasting in Boston, MA. Radio station
WBUR is having a benefit (for themselves - public/college radio) beer
tasting on Thursday the 16th of August, from 6 to 10 p.m. at 808
Commonwealth Ave. Station phone # is (617) 353-2790. They said they
were going to have 25 microbreweries, and 60 or so beers represented.
10 food booths or vendors of some kind as well. It's near the BU
bridge, and the nearest stop is the BU west stop on The Green line 'B'
train.

They've never had good publicity on this event in the past, and I usually
find out about it weeks after it happens. I haven't seen anything on
this year's either here, or in the Boston Wort Processors newsletter.

Chuck - I can't seem to get mail to you - I was trying to inquire
about this.

=========================================================================
                     "The farther it gets from the bench it was built on, 
                      the more real the real world gets."  - Todd Johnson
Al Duester, Ocean Engineer, MS S201   #  SPAN: 6308::capnal
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution  #  INTERNET:  capnal at aqua.whoi.edu
Woods Hole, MA  02543                 #  GEnie:  A.DUESTER
(508) 548-1400 x2474 (ans. Machine, voice messages)
(508) 457-2000 auto-receptionist for touch tone phones
=========================================================================

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Date: 13 Aug 90 15:46 EDT
From: Patrick J. Waara <Waara.wbst at Xerox.COM>
Subject: Lagering

I would like to attempt a lager, but know little about how to go about it.
I realize there are restrictions as to how quickly you should chill your
wort and all that, and I have seen an occassional mention of lagering in
this digest, but I have not really seen a good, complete description of the
process.  Is there a standard text on lagering, and/or could someone
describe in detail the lagering process; perhaps suggest a good lager
recipe at the same time?  I should point out that I am essentially a
beginner (6 batches so far), so please be as specific and detailed as
reasonably possible.

~Pat

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 16:51:11 PDT
From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: Thanks for the help with over-carbonation!



I wish to extend my thanks and appreciation for all of the responses
(both in the digest and directly via email) to my question regarding 
over-carbonation.  The volume of useful suggestions and personal
observations shows, once again, how much this digest serves the home
brewer!

A couple of comments regarding some of the responses:

1) It was suggested by a number of people that I may not have waited 
   long enough before bottling and thus fermentation wasn't complete.
   This would cause the problem if fermentation then completed in the
   bottle.  

   I don't think this is the problem.  I take SG readings at least 
   twice after I rack from the primary to the secondary and don't
   bottle until I see no significant change for two days.  In the case 
   of the Pale Ale that I was specifically asking about, the SG readings
   were: 1.064 (OG), 1.019 when racked to secondary after three days, 
   1.017 after 10 days, bottled after 12 days when the SG was 1.016.

2) A few folks mentioned problems related to Edme and wild yeasts that
   start a late fermentation in the bottle.  It was suggested that maybe
   I should try liquid yeast (Wyeast) cultures.

   This may be a part of my problem.  My records show that both of the
   batches that have been over-carbonated were made using Edme.  It 
   should be noted that I've used Edme without problems but that may 
   not necessarily eliminate it as the cause.

   I think that I will try the liquid culture on my next batch.  Any
   suggestions on a particular Wyeast that would approximate the yeast
   that Sierra Nevada uses in its Pale Ale?

3) Possible infections from using a plastic primary.

   I think that I will go out and purchase a glass carboy for doing
   my primary.  It is possible that the plastic bucket is allowing wild
   "junk" into my brew, although I haven't been able to discern any 
   scratches or abrasions.  I've been wanting to move to a blow-off mode
   of primary anyway, I guess now is a good time to bite the bullet 
   and go spend some money.  Just for the record, the secondary I use
   is a 7.5 gallon glass carboy.

An additional comment: the over-carbonation is getting worse.  I guess
I'll just have to invite a bunch of friends over and finish it off :-).
The ale really is good so I sure don't want to waste it just to avoid
glass hand-grenades.

	Keith Winter

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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 90 21:12:19 CDT
From: "John P. Quintana" <jpq_mail at laue.ms.nwu.edu>
Subject: Sour Smelling Beer

In an effort to understand my beer better, I have been
occasionally smelling the CO2 gas that comes out of my
airlock on my plastic fermentation vessel.  I just bottled
a standard kit brew with some extra hops and I noticed something
that I had smelled before.  While the beer was fermenting, the
gas out of the airlock smelled "fresh".  The day after I opened
the vessel to add finings (isinglass) according to the recipe, I
noticed that the odor from the airlock was definitely sour.  As I
bottled the beer, the new beer also had a slight sour off taste.
I'm hoping that as the beer ages, this will go away.  I've noticed
it before in some previous brew, but this is the first time that
I've kept carefull notes.  Anyone have an idea of what this might
be?  An infection perhaps?
 - John

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Date: 13 Aug 90 20:52:24 EDT
From: jay s hersh <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: oatmeal stout

To Patrick - 

  I believe the oatmeal stout was from the recipes I posted. Glad to hear 
 it appears to be turning out well. Has anyone else brewed a variation on 
 this recipe (or the recipe as posted). Like I mentioned this one has always
 been a winner when I've brewed it. Keep me posted.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #474, 08/14/90
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