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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Mail address format (was: solvent flavors/email address) ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Lager (off flavor) (leavitdg)
  memories ("Michel J. Brown")
  re: Irish Moss ("Michel J. Brown")
  re: Whirlpooling ("Michel J. Brown")
  re: Pellets, Flowers & Kettle drains ("Michel J. Brown")
  Endosperm mashing (Steve)
  re: Fermentation, Esters, Fusels 1 of 2 ("-S") ("David Houseman")


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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:56:39 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Mail address format (was: solvent flavors/email address)

On Thursday, 21 April 2005 at  1:55:44 -0400, -S wrote:
> Some time ago an HBDer courteously complained that my email reply address
> was invalid. 

That must have been me.

> He was wrong.  RFC0821/RFC0822 are the applicable standards which
> define email protocol.

No, they're obsolete.

> The email address: <-s at adelphia.net> is perfectly valid according
> to those standards.  The name field ("local-part" of RFC0822) may
> include the hyphen, plus, underbar and many other printable ascii
> punctuation characters in any position.  See
> ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc822.txt for the gory details.

Well, the official repository is http://www.ietf.org/rfc.html, but I
don't see anything obvious there to point to the fact (which is a
fact) that RFC 822 ha been obsolete for four years.  The new standard
is RFC 2822 (note that number :-)

  Network Working Group                                 P. Resnick, Editor
  Request for Comments: 2822                         QUALCOMM Incorporated
  Obsoletes: 822                                                April 2001

I've worked through it for several iterations, and now my head aches.
It seems that if I put the name in "" ("-s" at adelphia.net), it should
work.  I'm trying this here; we'll see.

> If your mailer doesn't accept this valid address you should
> certainly complain to the vendor.

The "vendor" is most certainly following RFC 2822.  They're a little
anal in that respect.  For example, they drop ISO 8859 characters from
headings, though they could be represented, because the standard
disallows it.  Not that that could be a problem on this list, where
the posting would just be rejected :-)

> You *may* find that double-quoting the local-part field is a
> workaround

Yes, that's what the standard may be trying to say.


> for a defective mailer as this is an accepted method of preventing
> interpretation of special characters (tho' hyphen is not actually a
> special character).  Try <"-s" at adelphia.net> if your mailer is
> broken.

The MUA is definitely not broken.  Times have changed.

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:42:39 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Lager (off flavor)

I brewed a lager on 11/14/04
using:
8lb Maris Otter base malt
2 lb Flaked Rice
1 lb Wheat
1 lb Vienna

One rest at around 145
Another at around 155
Mashout at 170F

og was 1.05
fg was 1.012
yeast was European Lager, a lot of slurry that was about 1 month old.

Hops were Goldings, ans Saaz (29 ibu)

Anyway, I left it in the primary from 11/14/04 until 3/12/05!

Now that it has been bottled, I have it in a fridge at around 39F.

There is a mild "cardboard" like taste.  Is this due to my negligence in 
leaving it so long on the yeast?  

And, will it disappear over time?

Please note: I did do the diacetyl rest at the end of the loooong primary.

HappyBrewing!
Darrell




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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:19:31 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <zymurgyst at comcast.net>
Subject: memories

>"Biochemistry" by Mathews&VanHolde is aimed at med students
>studying human metabolism, but it's so d*mned good I highly recommend it 
>for
>this sort of general biochem/metabolism topic.  Stryker, "Biochemistry" and
>Lehninger "Principles of Biochemistry" are the classics, but I prefer
>Mathews&VanHolde.

Steve you brought back memories of my younger days, when I actually had 
these books for text books! I even tried to do my graduate thesis on the 
growth cycle of saccromyces cervesia in a malto-dextrin substrate as a 
function of metabolism in the excretion of biowaste byproducts (aka alcohol 
and CO2).  My advisor told me that home brewing beer didn't count towards my 
thesis project :-(

Prost!

Michel

Somewhere in the unfashionable eastern end of Mutter's Spiral in the Milky 
Way 



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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:25:09 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <zymurgyst at comcast.net>
Subject: re: Irish Moss

>That's the first time I heard that IM is only useful for light coloured
>beers. Is this every bodies experience or one of the areas where opinions
>vary.

I'm simply looking at the fact that if you cannot see through it, what good 
is IM in clarification?

>What is the reason IM doesn't work with darker worts?

It's not that it doesn't function so much as it is simply not being able to 
tell the difference imho.

>And what impact does higher levels of hopping have on how IM performs?

Hops act as a filter bed, and will filter out much of the proteinaceous mass 
in the hot wort so it's more of an indirect mechanical function, if you know 
what I mean.  So, greater hop mass, to a point, equals greater filtration 
capacity of said proteinaceous mass.  Nuff' said?

Prost!

Michel

Somewhere in the unfashionable eastern end of Mutter's Spiral in the Milky 
Way



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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:41:55 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <zymurgyst at comcast.net>
Subject: re: Whirlpooling

>
>Friction between the wort and the sides and bottom of the whirlpool
>cause rapid deceleration of the liquid at these surfaces which results
>in an inward current at the bottom, an upward current at the center and
>an outward one at the surface. Kunze has a fairly good explanation
>starting at page 293 (International Edition).
>
>A.J.
>
Well said, AJ!  Still doesn't account for the *shape* of the cone, which is 
what was being referred to. IMHO, kettle geometry (undersquare, square, 
oversquare) and hop mass (few hops, or lot's of hops) will affect this most 
significantly.  I have a pretty square tun, and use a lot of hops (anywhere 
from a quarter pound to a pound or more), so the *shape* of the cone when I 
used to whirlpool, left debris touching the outside walls to a considerable 
extent.  I think most others here have undersquare kettles, and use far less 
hops than I do (I live in hop/malt/micro country - Portland).

Prost!

Michel

Somewhere in the unfashionable eastern end of Mutter's Spiral in the Milky 
Way




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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:46:21 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <zymurgyst at comcast.net>
Subject: re: Pellets, Flowers & Kettle drains

>
>Good advice, except that Mike said let it sit an hour AFTER chilling.
>
I was trying to consider both before and after chilling, guess on review I 
wasn't as clear as I thought I was on this issue.  Maybe I should be a 
little more verbose from now on :-)
>
>Obviously this is for people with immersion chillers.
>
Not necessarily, other chilling methodologies could be forced into this kind 
of MO, but it would be rather counterproductive imho.  I still keep my 
immersion chiller around for those off times when I have problems or am 
running two worts at the same time.

Prost!

Michel

Somewhere in the unfashionable eastern end of Mutter's Spiral in the Milky 
Way 



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Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:01:49 -0700
From: Steve <steve at hheco.com>
Subject: Endosperm mashing

I have become interested in boh pils brewing lately for session beers 
and have tried many commercial varieties for reference including one I 
liked from Trumer Brauerei.  Trumer Pils: 4.9% alcohol by volume (abv), 
11.5 degree P starting gravity, and aged for six months. The hop 
additions include German Hallertau Perle, Spalt Select and Czech Saaz. 
In 2004, they recently opened a brewery in Berkley, CA, (their homeland 
brewery is in Salzburg, Austria).  After researching this beer a bit, I 
discovered that they employ a unique mashing method called endosperm 
mashing and describe a procedure where huskless grist is mashed and the 
husks get added back at the end of the mash.  I would imagine that this 
would be similar to an all wheat grist where rice hulls are needed.  My 
question is how does one efficiently separate husks from crushed barley? 
  Does anyone use this mashing technique?  I have found an online 
abstract about endosperm mashing but I cannot access the article.  The 
reference is:
Who Needs Malt? Endosperm Mashing.  Michael J. Lewis. F.I. Brew, 
Professor Emeritus of Brewing Science, University of California, Davis, 
California, USA.
MBAA Technical Quarterly Volume 38, Number 2, 2001, Pages 111-114.  Does 
anyone have access to this article that can share it with me?
Thanks,
Steve
Stevenson, WA



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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:07:19 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: re: Fermentation, Esters, Fusels 1 of 2 ("-S")

Steve,

Great post on this subject.  And while I enjoyed the technical aspects of
this, I must admit that I won't remember all the details.  I'm sure others
would join me in asking that someone create a simple table that could be
easily read to determine how various factors (Fermentation Temperature,
Pitching Rate, Aeration, Fermenter geometry, osmotic pressure, re-pitching,
OG, etc.) affect the creation of beer characteristics (Esters, diacetyl,
fusel alcohol, etc.).   Not the why and how, but a simple table that
indicates increase or decrease of each factor leads to an increase or
decrease of each beer characteristic.

Dave Houseman



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