HOMEBREW Digest #4775 Mon 16 May 2005

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  Results -- Wyeast 3522 at High Temps (Matt)
  Re: dry yeast (re-using?) (Bob Tower)
  Theoretical efficiency calculation as related to sparging (Ricardo Cabeza)
  re: dry yeast (re-using?) (Glyn Crossno)
  RE: strange fermentation - HELP (Ricardo Cabeza)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:09:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com> Subject: Results -- Wyeast 3522 at High Temps A few weeks ago when I asked for information on fermenting Belgian yeasts at high temperatures, I got a lot of replies about Wyeast 3522 Ardennes doing well up to 90 degrees F. So we chose it for a tripel we were planning to ferment hot. I think I said I'd report the results, so here they are: That tripel (just Briess 2-row, corn sugar, and hops) was pitched into 85-degree wort at OG 1.073. A well-aerated 1.5 qt starter was used. The wort was poorly aerated by carboy-shaking. 84% (app) attenuation was reached in 5 days at 76-85 degrees. It was held at 70 for 3 weeks after bottling. A bottle tasted at 5 days was cidery and ethanol-y. A bottle tasted last night (3 weeks) was surprisingly rounded, with what I suspect are many of the lesser-known fruity esters. Not as "ethanol-hot" and with NO obvious cider, banana, bubblegum, or solvent flavors. Really pretty surprising for a 3-week-old tripel at 8% ABV. As of now we're very impressed with 3522 at these high temps. Now to avoid drinking it for a while... Thanks to various people for the suggestion, Matt reply to baumgart at myway dot com Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:25:35 -0700 From: Bob Tower <tower at cybermesa.com> Subject: Re: dry yeast (re-using?) In Digest #4774 Darrell writes: "Anyone re-use dry yeast? I have heard for years that this is generally not done, but wonder if this is still the case? Nottingham, and Manchester are the two in question." I regularly use Nottingham as I do large batches (15-20 gallons) and getting the pitching rates to where I want from a vial of White Labs or Wyeast is a PITA (though I do it when the yeast is a huge factor like in weizens or Belgians). I have had great success with it, varying my mashing temperatures and fermentation temperatures to sculpt the beer I want around Nottingham. I regularly reuse the yeast for a second batch (pour a new batch on top of the sediment from the previous) with neither better nor worse results. I have not gone beyond a single reuse. The general wisdom about dry yeast is that unlike laboratory made liquid yeast there is always a small amount of background contamination (bacteria) that is inherent in the dehydration process. Since bacteria reproduces so much faster than yeast with each generation the background contamination becomes exponentially larger. I don't have the number in front of me right now (can be obtained from the makers of Nottingham, Danstar) but the bacterial contamination is something like 0.001%. With liquid yeast cultures they may not perform as expected until the second or third generation, but I have not noted this in my experience with Nottingham. However, my experience may not be conclusive since I have never run the same recipe back to back with the second batch being on the yeast from the first and then compare the two beers. Whenever I reuse the yeast I am running a different recipe. That being said, I have not noticed any major flavor differences on the reuse. Is Manchester still available? Danstar does not list it on their site and I haven't seen it available from any suppliers for about 2-3 years. Is another company making it now? Bob Tower Los Angeles, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:16:15 -0400 From: Ricardo Cabeza <expunged at gmail.com> Subject: Theoretical efficiency calculation as related to sparging Hello everyone - I'm new to the digest. I'm wondering if anyone knows how to calculate the theoretical extract efficiency when sparging to a target volume. From what I understand, commercial breweries usually sparge until the runnings reach a target pH or SG. However, as a home brewer, it is obviously very inconvenient (translation: expensive!) for me to monitor the pH or specific gravity of my sparge in real time. Basically, the problem, as I see it, is this: The higher the OG of the beer, the more mash water I'll have in my tun, and therefore, the less sparge water I'll use to reach my target boil volume. Theoretically, the less sparge water I use, the lower the efficiency will be. Therefore, the crude efficiency that most suggest calculating, i.e. lbs. extract to fermenter / theo. max. lbs. extract for infinite sparge, will be different every time. I guess, I don't see how that would be useful. I really enjoy formulating new recipes, so I am very interested in being able to predict the theoretical efficiency over a wide range of OG's. I also have concerns related to scorching, etc. when over-sparging and then boiling down to 5 gal. Thanks in Advance! Ricardo Cabeza PS - I'm not afraid of some ugly math. I understand that this is a fluid mechanics & mass transfer issue, so I'm preparing in advance for some heavy duty math. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Glyn Crossno <graininfuser at yahoo.com> Subject: re: dry yeast (re-using?) I routinely re-use dry yeast. I expect every yeast liquid or dry to give me 3 to 4 batches at a minimum. I treat dry the same as I treat liquid. Glyn in middle TN Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:14:04 -0400 From: Ricardo Cabeza <expunged at gmail.com> Subject: RE: strange fermentation - HELP Quote: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have had a strange or unresponsive initial fermentation that I was looking for some insight on. I also switched from store bought "spring" water to well water run through a new whole house filter (in-line on the hose outside... its a rental house). Well the fermentation did a very little, no active blow off as before on day 2 or 3... After 5 days I again pitched more yeast (thinking I had killed or weakened somehow the initial batch) and after 12+ hours just a little bit more activity than before. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sean - I know I'm responding to this a bit late, but maybe I can help for your future brews. 1) The first question I would ask is did you aerate the wort? You said you brewed and then sealed the unpitched wort. I'm assuming you didn't aerate then. So did you remember to aerate when you pitched and then re-pitched the yeast? 2) I'm assuming that where ever you were keeping your carboy, it was warm enough for the yeast to ferment. If not, that could be your solution. 3) I'm a bit confused as to why you think you need to filter well water. I would not filter water coming from a well. Unless you have a system that automatically adds chlorine / chloramine / disinfectant. I assume that you used activated carbon/charcoal filter. Let me make few points regarding this type of filter. 1) It will not filter out any minerals / salts from your water supply. Only distillation, reverse osmosis, or ion exchange will do that. 2) Bacteria love to grow in those things - to prevent bacteria growth, the manufacturer almost always will have a microbial inhibitor in the filter charge. 3) Although I'm not familiar with your area, I'm guessing you use a filter because your water smells. This is probably because you have sulfur in it. Sulfur should not inhibit yeast growth unless it's present at very high levels. If you're using an RO filter, then ignore the above. Unless you're picking up something from your activated carbon / charcoal filter, as explained above, I highly doubt that you're water is the culprit. My guess is inproper aeration or fermentation temperature. Good luck in the future! Keep Brewing! Return to table of contents
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