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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Subject: Re: Yeast Bank Vials ("Randy Scott")
  RE: Steeping Carapils ("Williams, Rowan")
  Spruce Ale (leavitdg)
  Re: Yeast Bank Vials (Dylan Tack)
  Re: Yeast Bank Vials ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  RE: Steeped Carapils?? ("Williams, Rowan")


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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:16:04 -0500
From: "Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us>
Subject: Subject: Re: Yeast Bank Vials

"Stovall, Chris" <stovall.c at thomas-hutton.com> wrote:

> Our homebrew club is looking at starting a yeast bank.  Anybody have a
> good location for buying vials (a la White Labs) in quantity (say
> 100-200)?  Or another idea for keeping?  In the past I've just kept a
> strain or two going in a beer bottle but looking for something easier
> (smaller) to maintain in large quantity.

How about asking your LHBS if you can set a 5-gal. bucket in the corner with 
a sign that says "recycle your used White Labs vials here" ?

My LHBS does this and they're getting hundreds.  I have no idea what they're 
doing with them - next time I'm in, I'll ask.  They might send you a boxful 
for the price of shipping.

ras





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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:22:30 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Steeping Carapils

Many thanks to everyone for the PM's and responses to my steeping carapils
query.

There is still some conjecture on whether or not Weyermann Carapils can be
steeped but at this time, the "yea's" outnumber the "nay's" but to be
statistically fair, the response population is pretty small!!  I'll steep
some for my Czech Pils this weekend and report back the results - especially
if there is any starch haze present, as some respondents suggested...

Cheers,
Rowan Williams 
Canberra Brewers Club 
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)

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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:27:05 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Spruce Ale

I am planning a Spruce Ale, and intend to do the following:
7.75 lb Pils
2 lb Wheat
 .25 lb Biscuit

2 stage infusion

 .5 Brewers gold  at  FWH (120 hr boil)
 .25 same  at  60
 .25 Amarillo  at  30
3 oz fresh Spruce Tips  at  15
same  at  5

Anyone tried this? I used the Spruce Essence a few years back and became a very 
UN-popular person.

Darrell
Happy Brewing!




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:06:54 -0500
From: Dylan Tack <dylan at io.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Bank Vials

> Our homebrew club is looking at starting a yeast bank.  Anybody have a
> good location for buying vials (a la White Labs) in quantity (say
> 100-200)?

I recently started a similar project.  I use 16 x 125mm glass culture 
tubes with screw caps.  I bought a case of 250 for $36 (about $0.15 
apiece) at my university's Biochem Stores.  They are also available 
directly from Fisher Scientific:

https://www1.fishersci.com/Coupon?gid=196656&cid=1328


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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:52:28 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net>
Subject: Re: Yeast Bank Vials

On Jun 9, 2005, at 10:04, Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu> wrote:

> My understanding is that the WhiteLabs vials are nothing more than
> unblown two-liter soda bottle blanks.  So I suppose that a local soda
> bottling company might have them.  I don't know how YOU'D get them,
> though.

By amazing coincidence, we're talking about the same thing on a  
completely different, non-beer-related forum:

<https://www.teachersource.com/catalog/page/Physical_Science_Chemistry/ 
Preforms_Soda_Bottles/?id=c9270064ba6356f5af62ceace62cbcf2#SM-100A>

or, equivalently,

<http://tinyurl.com/c4csc>

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
craig at cottingham.net
OpenPGP key available from:
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C



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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:24:38 +1000
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: RE: Steeped Carapils??

Paul,
Thanks for the email! Wow, what an informative reply!
Firstly, something of a disclaimer / point of clarification - we don't
normally have access to any Briess malts down here in Australia, unless
somebody does a bulk purchase for the club.  That said, it's not impossible
to get the stuff, but its pretty rare around these here parts...

Cheers,
Rowan Williams
Canberra Brewers Club
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)

- -----Original Message-----
Rowan Williams stated in his post that he understood that Weyermann
Carapils/Carafoam, UNLIKE THE BRIESS VARIETY, can be steeped or mashed.
Rowan, from this I take that you believe that the Briess Carapils cannot be
steeped.

I too heard and read on some brewing web sites that Briess Carapils could
not be steeped and had to be mashed so I dug further and contacted Briess on
this question.  I sent Briess a copy of a statement I found on the web that
Briess could not be steeped and had to be mashed.  Below is the reply I
received, this year, from Bob Widmair of Briess.  I take this as being
accurate and it should put to rest the thoughts that Briess Carapils cannot
be steeped.  Here is Bob's reply to my question to him on this:
- -------------------------------

Hi Paul.

During 2004, one of the projects I was involved in was looking at various
"Dextrin Malts" and their properties. So it is timely that you have
contacted me at this time.

To begin, our Briess CaraPils are a specialty malt that is a "dextrin- style
malt that adds body, foam retention and beer stability without influencing
color or flavor." CaraPils are made to provide components (dextrins and
other components) to the beer that are specifically NOT broken down in
mashing via enzymes to thicken (add body) the beer and to increase foam
stability, also a function of thickness. Commercial brewers like it for that
reason and the fact it can be used in any beer recipe for these properties
and it will not affect their beer color or flavor. It is used in recipes up
to about 5% of the malt bill. CaraPils, like caramel malts, black malts and
chocolate malts, have no enzymatic activity themselves, but the functional
components in CaraPils like those in caramel malts are soluble without
mashing. So even if you do mash them, the process of making CaraPils
produces enzyme resistant water soluble starch pieces (dextrins) that are
retained in the beer and produce the desired thickening. So, the same stuff
comes from CaraPils whether they are mashed or steeped.

Now let us move onto the comment about "Briess CaraPils" not being "a true
crystal malt." In reference to crystallinity in malts, "name withheld" is
referring to the endosperm texture and appearance in the finished malt.
Maltsters refer to this as "glassy" if crystalline or "mealy" if not
crystalline. Caramel malts that are made via roasting are glassy or
crystalline and base malts and Munich malts that are made on a kiln are
mealy. Well, unfortunately, "name withheld" is wrong about the crystallinity
of Briess CaraPils and in comparison to Weyermann's Carafoam, this actually
reversed. If you have samples of each you can easily determine this
yourself. You can cut a few kernels of each lengthwise with a sharp knife or
razor blade and look at them. Mealy kernels have a white powdery appearance
and glassy kernels are hard and shiny like glass. Although I do not
recommend it and will not be responsible for dental work, you can chew them
CAREFULLY! The mealy Carafoam malt will be relatively soft and easy to chew
while the CaraPils will be hard and crunchy. I am not sure what "name
withheld" point is determining whether CaraPils is crystal or not but is
wrong on the lack of crystal structure in CaraPils.

Finally, a little comparison between Briess CaraPils and Weyermann Carafoam
maybe useful here. If you recall, brewers use dextrin malts to increase body
and foam stability without affecting color or flavor. In looking at these
two products, Briess CaraPils have a color of 1 - 1.5L while Carafoam is 1.5
 - 2.0. In terms of thickness or viscosity, Briess CaraPils has an all malt
viscosity of 3.7 cP (centpoise) versus 1.7 cP for Carafoam. Basically, our
testing showed Carafoam to be a slightly under modified base malt which has
a high starch content that requires enzymatic breakdown or else haze can be
a problem in the finished beer. In addition, when we ran a qualitative
analysis of dextrin content on these malts, the Carafoam had the lowest
dextrin content with CaraPils being moderate to high. Pleas note I am not
saying that Carafoam is a "bad" malt. I am just saying it does not show the
characteristics of dextrin malt that provides body and foam stability
without adding color or flavor.

So, obviously you can carry what you want in your homebrew supply business,
but we feel Briess CaraPils is an excellent malt well designed for it use
and it does not need to be mashed to get the functional characteristics from
the malt, similar to caramel malts. If you have further questions, please
contact me and I promise I will be more timely in my response.

Thank you.

Bob Widmaier
- ---------------------

I then dug further and found out that this original misconception was
brought about by information in John Palmer's book "How To Brew";  See
Section II, Chapter 12, Page 146.

I sent this info on to Bob Widmaier of Briess and received his reply
below:

- ----------------------
Hi Paul,

Thanks. That's interesting in that John spent a week or so in our facilities
early last year and spent time with our technical people. We will contact
him, thank you.

Bob Widmaier
- ----------------------

I was satisfied with the answers I received from Briess and have not pursued
this any further.  If anyone out there has info that disputes what Bob
Widmaier of Briess has stated then I would like to hear it.

Paul R.
Wine, Barley & Hops Homebrew Supply
Feasterville, PA  19053-7820
web: http://www.winebarleyandhops.com

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