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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Cleaning a Counter Flow Wort Chiller ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  more water info ("Randy Scott")
  Cleaning counter-flow chillers ("Peed, John")
  Experience with Safale US-56? ("Thomas T. Veldhouse")
  Cleaning a Counter Flow Wort Chiller ("Alex Sheftel")
  hazy wort from maris otter? (Aaron Martin Linder)


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Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:10:27 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig at cottingham.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning a Counter Flow Wort Chiller

On Aug 1, 2005, at 13:50, "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at 
ag.gov.au> wrote:

> And finally - is it true that you connect the water in at the opposite 
> end
> of the wort in (is that the counterflow part)???

Yes, exactly. It will still work if you hook it up the other way, but 
not as well. If the water and the wort flow the same direction, then 
the temperatures of both will be about the same at the exit of the 
chiller -- which means that you won't be able to get the wort any 
cooler than about halfway between the temperatures of both at the 
entrance of the chiller [1]. On the other hand, if the water and the 
wort flow in opposite directions, the exit temperature of the wort will 
be close to the *entrance* temperature of the water.

[1] It's more complicated than that, depending on relative heat 
capacities and plenty of other variables I've forgotten since college. 
But it will do as a quick rule of thumb.

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
craig at cottingham.net
Olathe, KS (slightly southwest of Kansas City, MO)



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Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:57:35 -0500
From: "Randy Scott" <lists at rscott.us>
Subject: more water info

A while back I posted requesting some advice on working with my water 
chemistry.  Several of you pointed out that the reported content, which was:

Calcium 46.8 mg/L
Magnesium 11.5 mg/L
Bicarbonate 372  mg/L (Alkalinity 305  mg/L)
Sulfate 31.0 mg/L
Sodium 6.84 mg/L
Chloride 17.0 mg/L

was clearly in error, given the anion/cation mismatch.  I contacted the City 
again and asked for a clarification.  I got back an odd reply, saying that 
these numbers were "what the State reports' (no idea what the context of 
that statement is) and that the city's actual tests showed an alkalinity of 
196 mg/L and "hardness" of 206 mg/L (didn't specify what kind of hardness 
they were talking about).  But they don't test for the individual mineral 
content.

So at this point I have no confidence in any of these numbers, and I'm 
inclined to trust my cheap aquarium test kits more (which show an alkalinity 
of 160 mg/L and a general hardness of 230 mg/L).

My process to date has been to dilute the tap water with varying amounts of 
RO, depending on the color of the beer.  Stouts I mash with straight tap 
water; Koelschs I mash with 3 parts RO to one part tap; with intermediate 
colored beers I split the difference accordingly.

I also up the RO ratio as the sparge goes on, so that on one end of the 
color scale, I end up sparging the last runnings of a Koelsch with straight 
RO, and on the other end, for a Stout I end up with half tap and half RO, 
again with intermediate colors falling in the middle as appropriate.  The 
theory here is that since the pH rises during the sparge, using a greater 
percentage of RO in the later stages of the sparge might help avoid 
extracting tannins from the mash.

Does this sound like a reasonable procedure?  Any other advice given the 
above?  And can anybody make any sense out of the discrepancy between the 
various numbers the city is giving me? Assuming the Alkalinity was the only 
thing off on the first report, does the city's "hardness" measure of 206 
mg/L correspond to the calcium, magnesium, etc. reported the first time?

Thanks for everyone's help on this - very educational

ras







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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:10:31 -0700
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Cleaning counter-flow chillers


Rowan wants to know how to clean his counter-flow chiller.  I always
used Powdered Brewer's Wash, followed by Star San.  The Star San, being
a weak acid solution, stripped all the oxide off the copper and left
bright metal.  I've heard conflicting opinions on copper - some say you
should keep the oxide layer to prevent leaching copper into the beer,
while others say bright copper is preferable.  Anyone care to weigh in
on that?  

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN



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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:37:20 -0500
From: "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy at veldy.net>
Subject: Experience with Safale US-56?

I was wondering if anybody cared to share their experience with Safale 
US-56?  How closely do you think it compares with WYeast American 1056 
or WhiteLabs WLP001?  Was the attenuation as good as the original 
"chico" yeast?

I am experimenting with this yeast and using it for a Chinook IPA and I 
want to see if this yeast can really perform.


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 15:25:11 -0400
From: "Alex Sheftel" <asheft at po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Cleaning a Counter Flow Wort Chiller 

Hi Rowan,

I have been using a copper-in copper-counterflow chiller (CFC) that I made
and have not really been too rigorous with regards to cleaning it.  Before
my first use, I filled it with white vinegar (I think it's really just 5%
acetic acid), let it sit awhile and then flushed it with water and let it
dry.  To dry it, I just twirl it until no more water comes out.  Mine is 9
coils, so I go around 10 times.  What came out after the vinegar then was a
bit blue, but not rediculously so.  After that, I haven't formally cleaned
it.  I'm curious what others do to clean their CFC's.

When I brew, I run iodophor solution through it, let it sit in the iodophor
for a little while (~10-15 min), and then run the wort through it at
knockout, careful not to put the outlet in my fermentor until all the
iodophor has run out.  After transferring all my wort to my fermentor, I run
hot water through the chiller for a little while--this is easy for me since
my kettle has a male garden hose connector on it and so does my kitchen
faucet when I brew (I connect the chiller directly to the faucet), about
10-15 minutes.  Then I dry the chiller and leave it until the next brew.  My
beer never tastes metallic, though some might worry about how much copper I
might be getting into my beer, with the acidic wort and all.  Maybe using
peracetic acid to sanitize would be better at removing any copper "rust".
Someone once told me that iodophor is acidic, though.  Has anyone pH'd
iodophor solution?

I suppose there might be a considerable amount of beer stone in my tubing
and I would use a fairly concentrated solution of Atoms Solide (i.e., oxy
clean, I think), to remove that.  I probably should do that sometime soon...

The CFC will be most efficient if you run the cooling water in the opposite
direction of the wort flow.

Cheers,
Alex (not Enkerli)
Montreal 



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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:10:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Martin Linder <lindera at umich.edu>
Subject: hazy wort from maris otter?

Hello brewers!

I have a question about a couple of batches of wort I recently made.  One 
was approximately

10 lb Maris Otter malt
0.5 lb crystal 120L
a couple ounces cascades for 45 minutes
sparge water adjusted as usual to around pH 5.8 w/ phosphoric acid
sparge w/ <170 degree F water until temp. adjusted gravity is around 
1.008-1.010 SG
1 tsp of hydrated irish moss for 15
chilled with immersion chiller (took longer than in the winter due to 
warmer water in pipes)~20-30 minutes?

the second batch was

12.5 lb maris otter malt
0.5 lb 20L crystal
a couple ounces of perle and hallertau at 45 and 10 minutes
the other process specifics are similar to the first wort preparation.

this is the usual process i follow but the wort was very cloudy.  the wort 
was very clear and had a good amount of break material(like egg drop soup) 
when hot but when i chilled it down, it turned hazy.  usually when i let 
the wort settle after chilling before decanting off of the break 
material it clarifies nicely and looks like a filtered batch of beer!

i also made another wort on the same day that i made the first batch 
described that was

5 lb maris otter
5 lb wheat malt
1 oz hops for 45 minutes
chilling, etc. the same as usual

this wort was very clear.  however, the only difference was that i did a 
protein rest at around 130 degree F for around half an hour and then did 
the main rest at around 151 F just like the other two batches.

This is the first maris otter malt out of this bag that i have used, and i 
haven't paid enough attention to previous batches to know whether they 
were cloudly when using maris otter.  usually my worts break clear and are 
very clear when i pitch them with yeast though, such as when using 
american 2-row, my usual malt.

is it possible that the higher percentage of maris otter caused the cloudy 
wort?  maybe the protein rest got rid of the haze in the wort of the wheat 
beer wort?  the first cloudy wort after racking to secondary clarified 
nicely.  it's just strange that it was so hazy after chilling it, but the 
half wheat malt batch wasn't hazy!

Aaron Linder
Ann Arbor, MI






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