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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  re: Reading Kunze Carefully (Boris de Mesones)
  RE: Mashing cool ("Kyle Jones")
  Has anyone tried this recipe for cock ale? (Brad Railsback)
  Dixie Cup XXII a call for judges ("rkolacny")
  2005 Oregon Brew Crew Fall Classic set for Novembeer 13th (jgram2)
  modeling ("Haborak, Kevin")
  New patent application for beer-like alcoholic beverage (Bill Velek)
  re:beer gun, + safale + efficiency (Nathaniel Lansing)


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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:10:46 +0900
From: Boris de Mesones <demesones at gmail.com>
Subject: re: Reading Kunze Carefully

The first week of October 1998 I was sitting on the benches of the
Brewing School VLB in Berlin, publishers of the book Brewing
Technology by Kunze, with an English version under my arm. One of the
first questions made by some German brewers was:

 - if we have a book like Kunze, why do we get so many photocopies
before any lecture? Can we not just follow the text of the book?-

Our teacher of Sudhaus (brewhouse) technology, and assistant of the
Professor at that time, told us:

 -because it has several errors, it is not very reliable and
information is not very complete, for example, look at the DMS
reference-.

Even though I used it as a reference for a few weeks, I decided
afterwards to buy the German version because the English translation
was not very good. Translations can be done in two ways, you translate
literally or you translate the meaning of the phrases, the second one
takes much more time to translate and it is much more expensive. In my
opinion the English version is a mainly literal translation, you have
to read it between the lines with German mentality.

Salud from Korea (150 brewpubs?pilot breweries built since 39 months ago)

Boris de Mesones

PS: as a curiosity, a Korean video of the presentation of the last one
(windows), copy the two lines together and paste:

http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/shellview3.htm?
linkid=3&newssetid=&articleid=2005072220050035675



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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:15:03 -0400
From: "Kyle Jones" <kjones1 at ufl.edu>
Subject: RE: Mashing cool

David Edge writes that he has been having trouble with his beer clearing

when he mashes at 63C/145F.  Dave, you're definitely below the starch 
gelatinization temp of 67C/152F, so you're not making a lot of the
starch
available to the amylase enzymes for "processing", and consequently
those large starch molecules are causing your finished beer to be
cloudy,
and can also cause a problem with infection on down the road, as many
of the nasties that infect beer love to latch on to starches.  You can
test
your wort for starch conversion with iodine, but simply bumping up your 
temperature to 150-152 for a single infusion mash should still leave you
with a moderately fermentable wort, and achieve almost complete
starch gelatinization.  Good luck.

Kyle




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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 04:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Railsback <rails2bier at yahoo.com>
Subject: Has anyone tried this recipe for cock ale?

I just ran across an old home-brew book titled
"Home-Brewed Beer and Cider" by Ben Turner. The recipe
I found interesting as is followed:

1 imperial gal.(4.5 litres) medium-hopped malt wort of
S.G. 1.044

Carcase bones, wing tips, tail, neck, and serving
scraps of a plainly roasted chicken

 .5 pint (.3 litre) of dry white wine

1. Crush the bones and place them with all the chicken
pieces in a bowl containing the wine. Cover and leave
in a cool larder or refrigerator for 24 hours.

2. Pitch an active yeast into the wort, cover it and
leave it in a warm place to start a vigorous
fermentation.

3. Next day strain the wine into the wort, place
chicken pieces and bones in a coarse nylon or muslin
bag and suspend this in the wort. Replace the cover
and continue the fermentation.  The presence of some
fat from the chicken will inhibit the formation of a
frothy head but will not stop the fermentation.

4. After three days, withdraw, drain and discard the
bag of chicken and continue the fermentation to the
finish. this will take two or three days longer than
usual.

5. Clear, bottle, prime, seal and mature for at least
one month.

   This is a well-tried adaptation of the old country
habit of killing, plucking, cleaning and flaying an
old cockerel and adding the broken bones and flesh to
a barrel of fermenting beer. The results are a very
fine beer, well worth brewing.

I take no responsibility for the above statements as I
copied them from; "Home-Brewed Beer and Cider" by Ben
Turner; published by EP Publishing, East Ardsley,
Wakefield, Yorkshire, England in 1981. Would the wine
be strong enough to sterilize the chicken parts or has
most of the oxygen been used by the time you add the
parts? Does anyone have any ideas why they used to add
chicken parts to fermenting beer?
Prosit,
Brad




		


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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:58:06 -0500
From: "rkolacny" <rkolacny at mail.ev1.net>
Subject: Dixie Cup XXII a call for judges

Beer Judges Needed!!! 

It is Dixie Cup time again! and we will start judging the Dixie 
Cup XXII entries This Sunday. Please, come be a part of Dixie Cup 
and help us judge. We need beer judges of all skill levels to come 
and help out. Don't worry if you are not BJCP ranked. We will 
either put you on a panel with experienced judges or use you as a 
steward. Everyone can be a beer judge!!! 

Here is the judging schedule: 

10/16 First round judging at Saint Arnold Brewing Company from 9 
AM to 4 PM. 

10/18 First round judging continues at Saint Arnold Brewing 
Company from 6 PM to 10 PM. (This judging session is contingent 
upon progress made on Sunday). 

10/21 First round judging continues Noon - 

10/22 Second round judging Noon - 

That's it! Please come out and give generously! 

Na zdravi (to your health or cheers!) 

Rob Kolacny 
Dixie Cup Coordinator 
http://www.crunchyfrog.net/dixiecup/ 
Secondary Fermenter 
Foam Rangers 
www.foamrangers.com 
rkolacny at ev1.net 
979 532 8056 wk 
979 532 1932 hm 
979 533 1173 cell 
 



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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:46:06 -0700
From: <jgram2 at spiritone.com>
Subject: 2005 Oregon Brew Crew Fall Classic set for Novembeer 13th

The Fifth Annual Oregon Brew Crew Fall Classic set for Novembeer 13th at the
Main Street Ale House in Gresham, just west of Portland, Oregon. Entries are
$6 each (send only two bottles) and are due by Nov 4. The Best of Show beer
will be brewed by the fine folks at the Main Street Ale house (assuming it
is scalable to their brewing system). Details can be found at
www.oregonbrewcrew.com. 


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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:57:27 -0400
From: "Haborak, Kevin" <kevin_haborak at golder.com>
Subject: modeling

Steve writes: 
"Not only do we have the extract gradient driving extract from grist to 
liquor,
but we also have the liquor gradient driving extract from bottom liquor 
to top
liquor.   And I suspect that the two diffusion constants involved differ
considerably."

I have tried to stay out of this topic, but I had to correct this
statement.  Advection-dispersion-sorption is going to be the dominant
mechanism of transport.  Diffusion will have a negligible effect,
especially from the top to the bottom of the column.

Both problems are cases of chemical transport through porous media.  So
perhaps you guys should look into soil mechanics/chemical transport for
the answer to the problem.  



Regards,


Kevin H.




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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:25:11 -0500
From: Bill Velek <billvelek at alltel.net>
Subject: New patent application for beer-like alcoholic beverage

Just thought my brewing friends would find this most interesting.

New Patent Application filed on 10/06/05 | #20050220935 for a
beer-like alcoholic beverage, and process for producing the same.

"A process for producing a beer-taste alcoholic beverage without the use 
of malt, barley, wheat, etc., including preparing a pre-fermentation 
liquid from raw materials of a syrup containing carbon sources, a 
material containing amino acids, hops, coloring matter, a foam 
formation/head retention enhancing substance and water; and fermenting 
the pre-fermentation liquid in the presence of yeast so as to form a 
sparkling alcoholic beverage. This process enables obtaining a 
beer-taste alcoholic beverage which has the same taste and appearance as 
those of beer and which is excellent in head retention."

Agent: Oblon, Spivak, Mcclelland, et al - Alexandria, VA, US
Inventor: Masao Oono
http://tinyurl.com/e2kl5

*****

I don't know what this would taste like, but the inventor is apparently 
Japanese, trying to avoid Japan's heavy tax on beer and Happoshu, and 
appears to be quite serious; a Japanese patent has apparently already 
been issued or is pending. Although you can reach these from the above 
link, for your convenience I'm providing the following links to:
 ... full-patent description = http://tinyurl.com/dfzlr ... and
 ... patent application claims = http://tinyurl.com/cbshq

In particular, see "fetal bovine serum albumen" in #10, below; that's 
really weird and brings all sorts of thoughts and questions to my mind, 
which I'll keep to myself -- at least for now.  :-)  Anyway, I've 
trimmed the claims page down a bit to its essentials, and have added 
some questions/comments in brackets, as follows:

1. ... obtained by producing a pre-fermentation liquid from a carbon 
source-containing syrup, a nitrogen source, hops, coloring matter, a 
foam formation and/or head retention substance ...

2. ... a flavor is added to the pre- ... or post-fermentation liquid.
[I wonder what sort of 'flavoring' is available for post-ferm, 
considering that they are already using hops]

3. ... the nitrogen source is an amino acid-containing material.

4. ... the syrup is obtained from ... corn, potatoes, and rice.

5. & 6 ... the syrup contains a portion of the nitrogen source ... 
obtained from ... corn, potatoes, peas, soybeans, and rice.

7. ... the amino acid-containing material has an amino acid composition 
sufficient to enable fermentation with beer yeast.

8. ... hops are ... powdery hops, a hop pellet, a hop extract, and 
hop-modified products comprising isomerized hop extracts, hexahydro-iso 
hop extracts, and terahydro-iso-hop extracts.

9. ... coloring matter is selected from ... [snipped a bunch of natural 
and artificial coloring agents]

10. ... the foam formation and/or head retention substance is ... plant 
extraction saponin ["s."] substances such as soy s., Yucca s., quillaja 
s., tea s., and ginseng s.; proteinic substances such as albumen peptide 
and fetal bovine serum albumen; thickening agents such as xanthan gum, 
pullulan, guar gum, locust bean gum, carrageenan, pectin, acacia gum, 
tamarind seed polysaccharides, agars, tara gum, and gellan gum; and 
alginic acid esters.  ["Thickening Agents"?  Do you reckon that might be 
for 'mouth feel'?]

11. ... is a flavor that provides beer-likeness. [I wonder how close 
beer-"likeness" is to the real thing.]

12. ... food fibers that provide functionality are used. [I wonder what 
"functionality" means, and how fibers provide it.]

13. ... a herb that provides a characteristic taste is used. [I wonder 
what herb provides which "characteristic taste.]

14. A beer-taste alcoholic beverage produced by the method as claimed in 
any of claims 1 through 11.
END OF CLAIMS.

For cryin' out loud, just bribe some politicians and get the damned 
taxes reduced. ;-)

Cheers,

Bill Velek




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Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:17:44 -0400
From: Nathaniel Lansing <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:beer gun, + safale + efficiency

ever tried the "beer gun", but it is not a CPF.
It does have the co2 purge but no counterpressure;
which I believe is the entire point of the exercise.
If you want to try it that way, just stick a bottle filling
wand on the end of your cobra head faucet and save
a bunch of money.
//////////
Safale US 56 (dry chico) is pretty nice. If you brew an
American pale ale you are never going to tell it is
dry yeast. Everyone that has reported to me loves it.
//////////
3.6 gallons of wort in the mash, 1gallon left behind...
27.7% of extract left behind. Do it again, 27.7% left behind.
do it again, 27.7%  left behind. We can never reach 100%
extraction with a batch sparge (not like we want to). 
With a continuous sparge the possibility is there to reach
100% extraction. It's done with a mash filter; but the grind has
some effect in that case.
 I've heard of making beer in an enema bag hung on a 
doorknob. I guess the question comes down to
"do you want to?"




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