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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  oysters & beer (Bob Devine)
  CO2 Safety ("Michael Maag")
  Kunze, Modeling, Process literature, deClerk (David Harsh)
  Post your location (Jeff Renner)
  Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day ("Gary Glass")
  Re: Comments re HBD 4866 (Scott Alfter)
  Any Wilmington, NC folks heading to the Lighthouse International Beer Festival? ("Chris Horner")
  Tinyurl (was: Comments re HBD 4866) ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")


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Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:48:25 -0600
From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: oysters & beer

Bill Velek wrote:
 > Brad:  I've read about real oysters being added to an
 > "Oyster Stout" (IIRC it was from Michael Jackson)

Never underestimate what adjuncts or flavorings
have been tried in brewing.  Somehow stout is one style
that has had variety of additions -- milk sugar, coffee,
oatmeal, licorice, maybe even Rocky Mountain oysters...

This might be the column you remember:
http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000740.html

A label proclaiming oysters
http://www.beers-of-the-world.com/brands/detail/oyster_stout.764.html

Other brewers have used ground shells from oysters
as fining agents.  Such shells are somewhat like
diatomaceous earth -- the particles are small, rough,
and good for capturing small particles.  Shells are
also somewhat alkaline.

Bob Devine, Riverton UT


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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:26:47 -0400
From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.virginia.gov>
Subject: CO2 Safety

I am posting this alert now that the cold weather
 is on the way, and the case has been closed.
A fatality occurred in SW Virginia last winter
 when a Pepsi employee was delivering a 20 lb
 CO2 tank to a customer.
He had placed the CO2 tank in the cab of the
 truck near the heater vent.
 The heater vent blew air at at 150F. 
The CO2 tank had been overfilled. 
 The increase in internal tank pressure due
 to the heat caused the frangible disk to 
rupture, and the entire tank contents filled
 the cab.  
The victim was unconcious before he could
 roll down the window, and died.
The vehicle was found stalled on the shoulder
 of the road. 

Brew Safely

Mike Maag, Va. OSHA




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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:03:15 -0400
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Kunze, Modeling, Process literature, deClerk

Greetings-
	I'll stop after this, I promise.

On Kunze-
	I don't own a copy of Kunze (but maybe I'll check the library), but 
the posted passaged seemed to me to be very poorly translated and 
perhaps it could be stated more clearly.  However, I think Steve A. 
correctly interpreted what was written.
- -----------------
To model the sparge-
	A proper sparge model has to account for both diffusion and convective 
issues.  Dave Burley and I discussed this several years ago and 
although he used different terminology, we described it as the same 
basic processes:
	1.  Diffusion in the liquid phase (I'm pretty sure we could neglect 
this)
	2.  Convective mass transfer from the liquid phase to the particles
	3.  Diffusion in the particle phase (the Fickian process)
Physical data needed:
	-Equilibrium data (sorption isotherm, partition coefficient, whatever 
you want to call it)
	-Bed characteristics (particle "size", porosity, sphericity, all that)
	-Diffusivities for the solute in the bulk and particle phases.
Hinds gives solutions of the  model for varying limited resistances and 
references a solution for combined resistances.  Although derived for a 
sorption process, it is easily applicable to a desorption process.  
Many other mass transfer references will probably present the same 
solutions if one is interested and can't find a copy of Hinds (Bennett 
and Myers; McCabe, Smith and Harriot, anything on that part of the 
library shelf!)  And this is for transfer of ONE solute.  Multiple 
solutes do not allow an analytical solution.
- ----------------
What does process literature say?
	I think Dave Burley and I have seen the same literature over the years 
and are almost perplexed that anyone would claim that batch processes 
have an advantage in efficiency over a continuous one.  The continuous 
process maintains a higher average driving force for mass transfer, and 
that is easily proven.  It is not often expressed explicity, but here's 
a quote from King, Separation Processes (McGraw-Hill1980, p. 173) 
talking about making coffee for freeze drying:
	"...Since the water in this extract is subsequently removed by 
evaporation or freeze-concentration, followed by spray-drying or 
freeze-drying, there is a large incentive to obtain as concentrated an 
extract as possible ... In order to obtain this high extract 
concentration, countercurrent contacting of roast and ground coffee and 
extract is used ....  In this way water always contacts the most 
depleted coffee grounds first and contacts the freshest grounds last... 
  the process can obviously be extended to any number of beds."
	So, in effect, I'm saying that Dave Burley is correct when states that 
Chemical Engineering literature claims higher efficiency for continuous 
over batch processes.  Although I'll point out that this does not state 
whether a better quality extract is obtained - and my opinion of 
instant coffee would doubt that, but that's a whole different argument!
- --------------------
I do own a copy of deClerk, and here's his take: (the 1994 reprinting 
by Seibel, page 288 in Volume I)
	"After the first wort has been run off, sparging is started.  Many 
years ago the spent grains were washed by steeping.  Liquor was 
introduced into the vessel by underletting, and after a a stand, was 
run off in the same way as the first wort.  The terminology used in the 
obsolete process was "first steep wort" for the first wort, and then 
second, third and fourth steep worts.  In other words, the spent grains 
were washed by dilution.  Today, the spent grains are washed by 
displacement.  Hot liquor is sprinkled over the bed of spent grain from 
above by means of the sparging machinery in the tub and the bed of 
spent grains is kept covered with liquor during the whole process.  
Sparging is a very much more efficient method of washing the spent 
grains since oxidation is prevented and less liquor is used, an 
important fact in the brewing of high-gravity beers.  "
	(no references are provided for this text)

So I'll close by saying, if anybody ever solves the model or bothers to 
collect enough data to really prove the point, I'd love to hear about 
it.  But in the mean time, I doubt any of us are going to change from 
our current methods we consider successful.

Dave Harsh				Cincinnati, OH
Bloatarian Brewing League



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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:26:16 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Post your location

Brewers

It's time for my semi-annual request that posters tell us their name  
and location.  It fosters community and might help answer questions  
you have.  Who knows, there might be a homebrewer in your hometown  
that you never knew about, or maybe someone with the same water  
problems that he's solved.

And for relative newcomers who wonder what this occasional "Rennerian  
Coordinates" stuff is, it was this request that led to Rennerian  
Coordinates about eight years ago.  See my "The Definitive History of  
Rennerian  Coordinates" at
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4235.html#4235-4.

Jeff
- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
Calculate your Rennerian Coordinates at
http://hbd.org/rennerian_table.shtml




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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:15:39 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at brewersassociation.org>
Subject: Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day

Calling All Homebrewers!

It's time to brew some beer for the greater good.  The American Homebrewers
Association's 7th annual Teach A Friend To Homebrew Day is coming up on
November 5th (always held on the first Saturday in November).  This is a day
of service.....well, and fun, if it's not fun you're not doing it
right.....where homebrewers around the globe gather their non-brewing
friends, neighbors, and family to teach them how to brew up some beer.  

Why?  Because more homebrewers = better world to live in!

Last year we had 1179 participants from 137 different sites.  Help us make
this year even bigger.  Sites registered before October 23 will be sent
copies of Zymurgy for Beginners, our 24-page guide for beginning homebrewers.

For details and to register your site see:
www.beertown.org/events/teach/index.html.

Cheers!

Gary Glass, Project Coordinator
Brewers Association
888-U-CAN-BREW
(303) 447-0816 x 121
gary at brewersassociation.org 
www.beertown.org 



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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:14:06 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Comments re HBD 4866

Bill Velek wrote:
> Boris:  One word -- "TinyURL"  :-)
> Instead of posting a long link and asking people to patch it together, 
> it would be better to change it, as I have now done for your link, into 
> this: http://tinyurl.com/96twz .

I won't attempt to speak for others, but I very much dislike the posting of
such abbreviated URLs.  They give no clue as to where they are actually going.
For all I can tell, your example link goes someplace offensive like goatse.cx
or democrats.org.

It would be nice if the HBD didn't pitch a fit on long lines, but reassembling
a long URL that's been split takes a minimal amount of time (copy it to a text
editor, remove the line breaks, and paste the result into your browser) and
leaves no questions about where you're going.

With some sites, you can get rid of extra crud in the URL and it'll still work.
 Consider this link to Charlie Papazian's latest at Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060531053/103-8568819-2801460?v=glance&n=
283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance

All you really need to post is the part up to the book's ISBN:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060531053/

eBay can also have its URLs shortened considerably.  Consider this
click-through from a search page (disclaimer: this isn't my auction and I don't
know the seller; it was just the first result returned in a search for
"Cornelius keg"):

http://cgi.ebay.com/FOUR-5-five-gallon-keg-homebrew-soda-tank-Cornelius_W0Q
QitemZ7552231420QQcategoryZ67137QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Plugging the item number into Firefox's search feature brings back an even
longer URL for the same item:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552231420&ru=http%3A%2F
%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fquery%3D7552231420%26MfcISA
PICommand%3DGetResult%26ht%3D1%26ebaytag1%3Debayreg%26srchdesc%3Dn%26maxRec
ordsReturned%3D300%26maxRecordsPerPage%3D50%26SortProperty%3DMetaEndSort%26
fvi%3D1

Only a very small part of this, though, will take you to the same page:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7552231420

Plug in a different item number at the end and you'll get a different item.

This is very much a site-specific method for shortening URLs, but it doesn't
take much experimentation with a given site to find a method that works (or to
find that you can't shorten it, in which case a decent site design means it's
not all that long to begin with).

  _/_  Scott Alfter
 / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://snafu.alfter.us/      Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?




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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:30:52 -0400
From: "Chris Horner" <chrishorner68 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Any Wilmington, NC folks heading to the Lighthouse International Beer Festival?

Greetings,

Finally getting settled in down here on the southern Carolina Coast, and 
making some free time on the weekends to socialize and meet new folks!  
Thinking about heading out to Hugh MacRae Park for this. 
http://www.lighthousebeerandwine.com/2005festival.pdf

For me, the 20 bucks is worth it just to catch Colonel Bruce Hampton & the 
Codetalkers - but I know that's steep if you're not really interested in the 
music.

My dad's in bachelor mode this weekend, so I figured I'd drag him down there 
 - we used to go to GABF behind Dominion Breweries all the time when we lived 
up north.

Anyone here been before?  What can I expect for 20 bucks?  A sample glass 
and a few tokens?

If any of you are going to be there - or have displays setup there, please 
let me know - it would be nice to meet some fellow homebrewers.

Chris Horner
http://db.etree.org/chorner




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Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:00:59 +0930
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Tinyurl (was: Comments re HBD 4866)

On Tuesday, 11 October 2005 at 14:19:05 -0500, Bill Velek wrote:
> Boris:  One word -- "TinyURL"  :-)
> Instead of posting a long link and asking people to patch it together,
> it would be better to change it, as I have now done for your link, into
> this: http://tinyurl.com/96twz .

Yes, but will it be there in two years' time when somebody reads the
archives?  Tinyurl is great for interactive use, but for something in
an archive, I'd like to see the original.

- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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