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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  sulfur character of lager ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  Continuous aeration of starters ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: Immersion chiller and trub mixing (Fred Johnson)
  Sulfur and Lager ("A.J deLange")
  Re: Google map for HBD readers? ("J. Ben Schafer")
  Immersion chiller stirring and trub mixing? (Randy Sanders)
  A different kind of efficiency (Matt)
  Re: Sulfur smell (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Google map for HBD readers? (Jeff Renner)
  Sulphur and Saflager (le Man)
  Networking, Friendship (Why I love this hobby) (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Split Rock 2005 HB Competition - Great Brews of American ("David Houseman")
  Palmetto State Brewers Open 7 (fatcat)


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:59:11 -0500
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: sulfur character of lager

Lager yeasts typically produce more sulfur compounds than ale yeasts. In
my experience, many lager yeasts produce abundant H2S (rotten egg) early
in fermentation, but this dissipates during conditioning.

There are other sulfur characters that might be present in lagers.
According to Morton Meilgaard's "beer flavor wheel", see:
http://www.brew-monkey.com/brewschool/beerwheel.php , there are five
main sulfur flavors that may be present in beer:
1) yeasty
2) cooked vegetable
3) sulfidic
4) sulfitic
5) sulfury

Many European lagers have a sulfitic character, which resembles a
"struck match". I find this very pleasant in a lager (eg: Pilsner
Urquell, Victory Pils), as long as the concentration is not too high.
See AJ's post earlier this year on this topic:
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4696.html#4696-4

Sincerely,
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY





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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:49:20 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: Continuous aeration of starters


Recent posts on yeast have gotten me to wonder about continuous aeration of
a starter.  I use an Ehrlenmeyer flask on a mag stirrer, and I've been
thinking about using an aquarium pump with a sterile filter to continuously
aerate while I stir. However, if I understand things correctly (which would
be unusual in this subject area), this might not do me any good unless I
also continuously feed the yeast.  Is that correct?  If so, and since I
don't have a metering pump, could I approximate continuous feeding by giving
the yeast little wort snacks periodically?  

Regards,
Mike

Kent, WA
(1891, 294) AR, Statute


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:10:36 -0500
From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: Re: Immersion chiller and trub mixing

Eric discovered that moving the immersion chiller in the wort greatly 
accelerates cooling, but he is concerned that this mixes up the trub. 
He usually pours the cooled wort into the fermentor using a strainer to 
catch the hops.

The issue of getting trub in the fermentor isn't much of a problem, but 
I would discourage this type of transfer. In my earlier days of 
brewing--and this probably is true of most all of us who grew up 
reading Papazian--I, too, would pour the cooled wort into the fermentor 
using a funnel and some cheese cloth or specially designed cloth filter 
that fit on the funnel to catch the hops, etc. These are not easy items 
to sanitize, and the process is prone to inviting contamination. I am 
certain that this was the source of a couple of infections in my 
earlier days of brewing.

I highly recommend to Eric to siphon the wort from his boiling vessel 
using a sanitized siphon. Allow the hops and trub to settle to the 
bottom for several minutes after cooling before starting the transfer. 
Even better and easier than a clumsy siphon would be to purchase/make a 
boiling kettle with a drain and either a false bottom or some type of 
filter (stainless steel scrubbing pad) on the end of the drain tube.

Such is the natural history of this addiction. We all start off with 
whatever equipment we can scrounge together, but before long we then 
start replacing equipment and processes with more sophisticated and 
more expensive paraphernalia to feed our habit.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:31:31 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Sulfur and Lager

Sulfur and lager go together like Mutt & Jeff.  A member of my club once 
commented that his basement smelled like a paper mill when he had a 
lager in process. The old Bavarian brewmasters seem to have selected for 
sulfur producing strains probably because sulfite is helpful in getting 
the beer through long lagering periods without staling (it's a good 
reducing agent). Indeed continental lagers should all have a faint 
sulfur note but the key word here is "faint". If it's overwhelming the 
beer has not lagered long enough (sulfur smells are part of Jungbuket - 
the smell of green beer). You can accelerate the removal of sulfur to 
some extent by sparging with CO2 (over pressurize the keg and bleed once 
a day for a few days) but the best way to handle sulfur is time. 
Choosing a yeast strain that produces less will also solve the "problem" 
but may effect long term beer stability.


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:32:38 -0600 (CST)
From: "J. Ben Schafer" <schafer at cs.uni.edu>
Subject: Re: Google map for HBD readers?

> From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net>
>
> Suggestion: How about having a HBD reader page with a
> Google map on hbd.org?  Did you ever want to quickly
> find people near you?  Or see which club are close by?

The beginnings of such a map does exist.  I have used the following map
several times:

http://www.nhbrewers.com/mapbeer.html

Ben

_________________________________________________
J. Ben Schafer
Assistant Professor
Department of Computer Science
University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls, IA, 50614
(319)-273-2187
_________________________________________________
"Always behave like a duck --
   keep calm and unruffled on the surface
   but paddle like the devil underneath."
      -J. Braude


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:35:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Randy Sanders <renas_man at yahoo.com>
Subject: Immersion chiller stirring and trub mixing?

Hello.  Longtime lurker, first time poster.

Eric posted a question about using an immersion chiller and moving it
around while in the wort.  His concern was mixing the trub back into
suspension in the wort, and this can be a concern when agitating the
wort.  Eric is using DME and hops or hop pellets, and he strains as
he pours into the fermenter.

Eric, hop bags take quite a bit of concern out of the picture.  You
simply pull the hops out at the end of the boil.  The "stuff on the
bottom" is indeed too small to filter with standard strainers.  I may
get some arguments on these two points, but they work extremely well
for me.

I'm going on an assumption that you are cooling in the boil kettle
itself.  Have you considered transferring the hot wort to a different
kettle for cooling?  Is the exterior of your cooling kettle sitting
in an ice bath as well?

My second suggestion is to use the immersion chiller in a different
way and pump the wort through the chiller itself.  Place the chiller
in a bucket of ice water.  A buddy and I are currently researching
the effect of adding an old electric ice cream maker motor and paddle
to continuously stir the ice as the wort passes through the coils.

Our observations so far show that adding rock salt to the ice water
(chemistry - Freezing Point Depression) and simply stirring the ice
water while the wort is flowing in the coils (Engineering -
turbulence in the water) drops the output temperature considerably. 
Either one helps quite a bit, but in combination the temperature has
dropped in the range of an extra 20-30 degrees F.

More experiments to follow as we run out of beer (grin).  

I hope this helps.

Randy Sanders
St. Louis/St. Charles County


Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:11:12 -0600
From: "eric" <zeee1 at nebonet.com>
Subject: Immersion chiller stirring and trub mixing?

Hello all

Last batch I paid attention to moving the immersion chiller around as

it
cooled the wort, compared to just putting it in the pot and leaving
it
there. Noticeable difference in water temp outlet by gently moving
the
chiller through the wort, compared to a minute or 2 after just
sitting
there. But my question is, how will this affect trub removal? Will 
gently
agitating the chiller noticeably mix the trub? Or should I care that 
much,
using DME? All I usually do is pour the cooled wort into a carboy 
through a
strainer for hop removal, and stop when "the stuff on the bottom" is 
showing
signs of heading for the funnel.

Eric

Deweyville, UT


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:28:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: A different kind of efficiency

I have an efficiency question that has a different twist from what's
been recently discussed here.

Because I brew in a small apartment and boil in a 5 gallon kettle on
the stove, I cannot take 6 gallons of runnings and boil them down for a
5-gallon batch.  Obviously, taking only 4 gallons hurts my efficiency,
but that's okay.  It does, however, make it hard to figure out how
"efficient" my process is, since the theoretical yield of a pound of
grain is no longer such a simple thing.  

On the other hand, the initial gravity of the runnings is something I
can easily compare to anyone else's numbers, regardless of any limits
on my sparging.  I can then at least figure out if I am getting full
conversion, suffering from a bad crush, etc.  Is there some definitive
"theoretical max for first runnings at 1.25 qt/lb"?  I would appreciate
hearing from those of you who know, what is the gravity of your first
runnings (and at what water:grain ratio.

This might be valuable for anyone who wants to investigate their
"saccharification efficiency" as opposed to their "lautering
efficiency."

Thanks,

Matt

PS: If a pound of grain has 33 potential points, and it's fully
converted at 1 qt/lb, and IF things "mix perfectly" then we have 33 pts
per qt of first runnings for a stunning gravity of 1.132.  Maybe this
is doable with a congress mash or something.  I am looking more for the
maximum gravity of first runnings for practical brewers.


		


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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:37:04 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Sulfur smell

"Joe Aistrup" <joe_aistrup at msn.com> wrote from Manhattan, KS  
(remembering to include his location!):

> I'm normally an ale maker, but I inherited a fridge, and so I  
> decided to try
> a lager.  It is a simple lager, lightly hopped, with a moderate OG  
> of 1.056.
>   I used saflager dry, which I have read good things about.  I  
> fermented the
> beer at 52 degrees for three weeks. My finishing gravity is 1.011.   
> I kegged
> the beer.
>
> The beer tastes great, but it has a strong sulfur nose. Is this a  
> function
> of the dry yeast? Is there a way to prevent it?  Is there a get rid  
> of the
> sulfur with this batch?

I'm not familiar with this particular lager yeast, but a sulfur smell  
is typical of many lager yeasts.  usually it disappears by the end of  
fermentation, but with some yeasts it persists, even through a full  
lager period.  Our local German lager microbrewery, Leopold Brothers,  
uses a yeast like this.  The German trained brewer likes it.  I  
myself prefer his beers after they have fully lagered and the sulfur  
is quite diminished.

This sulfite is actually a natural preservative, BTW.

Have you fully lagered your beer?  The rule of thumb is a day per  
point of gravity or so, so this would suggest seven weeks, at about  
freezing if you can get it that cold.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
***Please note new address***




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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:54:23 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Google map for HBD readers?

Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> wrote from Riverton, UT:

> Suggestion: How about having a HBD reader page with a
> Google map on hbd.org?  Did you ever want to quickly
> find people near you?  Or see which club are close by?

I don't know nothin' about how to do this kind of stuff, but I love  
the idea (no surprise here).

I hope someone will take a stab.

Great idea.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
***Please note new address***




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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:06:44 +0000
From: le Man <hbd at thebarnsleys.co.uk>
Subject: Sulphur and Saflager

Joe Asked

> The beer tastes great, but it has a strong sulfur nose. Is this a function 
> of the dry yeast? Is there a way to prevent it?  Is there a get rid of the 
> sulfur with this batch?

Hi Joe,

That is one of the features of Saflager 23, in fact a lot of lager
yeasts exhibit a prominent sulphur nose. The good thing is that it does
diminish with time. I'm currently in the third week of a similar lager
to yours and the nose during the two week primary was very pronounced.
After a week of lagering at 1C, its not that bad, and I suspect that
given another couple of weeks it should be undetectable.

- -- 
le Man ( The Brewer Formerly Known As Aleman )
Mashing In Blackpool, Lancashire, UK



- -- 
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.6/151 - Release Date: 28/10/2005



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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:46:25 -0500
From: Alexandre Enkerli <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Networking, Friendship (Why I love this hobby)

Friends,

Ben recounted his experience in being invited to events through a 
fellow HBDer:
> Only in homebrewing would the sentence "I'm going to have drinks with 
> a guy I met on the Internet" not seem creepy.
Well, it *could* still be creepy, depending on who the guy is! ;-)
It does exemplify the power of both the hobby and the list. What's 
great about HBing and the HBD is that we build links that overcome 
different sorts of barriers. Of course, we do tend to have more in 
common than our passion for homebrewing (for one thing, most of us are 
men). But a HBer is readily welcomed among other HBers.
Case in point, went to Rennerian [0,0] in early May. Sent a message 
from there, included in HBD #4768. Jeff is an excellent example of this 
principle as he really made me feel at home. The same thing happened in 
other cases with people met through the HBD or other HBing forums. 
People coming from different walks of life and different regions get 
together as equals no matter their age, creed, or allegiance.
In fact, beer events tend to bring people together. Had a lot of fun at 
the New England Beer Fest on Saturday, partly because people were very 
friendly. Of course, beer helps friendship.

Sincerely your,

Alexandre
http://dispar.blogspot.com/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/enkerli/
http://blog.criticalworld.net/



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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 18:14:25 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: Split Rock 2005 HB Competition - Great Brews of American

This is the last announcement for the homebrew competition on Saturday,
November
19th, at the Split Rock Resort in the Pocono's of Pennsylvania in
conjunction with their annual Micro Brew Festival.  Entry fees, $5, will
go to the Make-A-Wish Foundation.  This is a sanctioned competition
judging all beer, mead and cider styles.  Entries should be shipped to
The Resort at Split Rock, One Lake Drive, Lake Harmony, PA 18624,
Attention: Shelly Kalins Lutz, for receipt from November 6 to November
17.  Two (2) brown or green bottles with no markings are required.  Any
standard entry forms identifying the brewer and the appropriate entry
category/subcategory are acceptable.  Any standard homebrew competition
entry and bottle identification forms are acceptable.  The 2004 BJCP
Style Guidelines will be used for this competition.  Get this from the
BJCP web site at www.bjcp.org.

Judges are needed and they should contact me to secure a position.
We currently have sufficient stewards signed up.  Judges
and Stewards can hand carry their entries if they pre-register with
payment.  All judges and stewards are required to be present by 8:30 so
we can get started promptly at 9am.  Checks should be made out to The
Resort At Split Rock.  Judges will receive an entry to the beer festival
or entry to the beer dinner for their efforts and need to indicate which
they wish when they commit to participate.  The BOS winner will receive
a complementary weekend for two at next year's Split Rock Beer Fest as
well.  But just entering makes you a winner for helping a good cause.
More information will be available at the Split Rock web site:
http://www.splitrockresort.com/beerfest/.   Or contact them at:
spevents at splitrockresort.com.

David Houseman
Competition Organizer
david.houseman at verizon.net



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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:29:37 -0500
From: fatcat <fatcat at sagecat.com>
Subject: Palmetto State Brewers Open 7

The Palmetto State Brewers, Inc. is pleased to announce that entries 
are being accepted for PSBO7 to be held December 3, 2005.  This 
competition is the final leg of the Carolinas Brewer of the Year circuit.

http://www.sagecat.com/psb/psbo7.htm



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