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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  aluminum immersion chiller (Raj B Apte)
  Batch size vs fermentation time (Thomas Rohner)
  Subject: A true honeymoon ("Jodie")
  Just another Fridge question (Dave Perez)
  Figures, don't it. (Vincent Dongarra)
  Plate Chillers & Brewery Organization (Bob Hall)
  strange layer in primary fermenter (Matt)
  time to brew, indeed! (leavitdg)
  [Fwd: [Fwd: Fermentation Rate]] ("A.J deLange")
  cinnamon,...and haze? (leavitdg)
  RE: A true honeymoon [Sec: Unclassified] ("Williams, Rowan")
  Bad year for hops (4th send attempt, thangyouverymuch) (Francisco Jones)
  Chocolate DME and salt brine ice chiller ("eric")
  Small Cap Stox Can Sizzle ("Kerry I. Wilkerson")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:54:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Raj B Apte <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: aluminum immersion chiller

Hi all,

I'm in the process of putting together a new kettle. I
decided  on Aluminum because I need the thermal
conductivity (had scorching problems with stainless). The
health questions didn't convince me. And new, 6mm thick
stock pots are readily available for < $100. Then I started
wondering about my immersion chiller.

I have read that copper--if its not cleaned with acid
before use--does oxidize wort. So, it makes sense to make
an immersion chiller from Aluminum rather than copper. The
thermal properties are close, and I'll get less oxidation.
Because I use tubing and clamps, the lack of solderability
doesn't bother me at all.

Has anyone tried this? Am I missing something here?

raj




	
		


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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 11:20:34 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Batch size vs fermentation time

Hello all

In general i read that bigger vessels give a faster and more complete 
fermetation. Big fermentation tanks are cooled asymetrically to keep the 
wort in motion and the yeast suspension.
There is one problem with large fermenters. It is the pressure at the 
bottom. 10m height gives you 1bar or 14.5psi at the bottom. This can 
have a negative effect on the yeast performance. (as i know from a 
brewery near us. They had huge problems, when they switched to bigger 
tanks. They had to change from the "house-yeast" to a more pressure 
tolerant strain.)

Besides the movement in the fermenter, it should make no difference in 
the homebrew scale.(from 5 to 20 gal) Given the same yeast count and 
temperature.

Cheers  Thomas

don't know the rennerians
but you can find me as the only one in switzerland on frappr.com/hbd



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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 07:24:29 -0500
From: "Jodie" <jodiedavis at adelphia.net>
Subject: Subject: A true honeymoon

Hey Aaron,

Congrats! Before we were married my husband and I took a trip and while
he was at a meeting I bought fabric--what quilters do everywhere they
go. When he saw my purchases that evening he suggested that the next
time we travel we pack an extra suitcase to be sure we had room to bring
home my goodies. He's been the same way with beer equipment. Yeah for
supportive spouses!

www.MoreBeer.com has a wish list function. I've never used it but assume
it's something like that on Amazon, and could be just what you're
looking for.

Jodie


Jodie Davis
www.jodieandcompany.com
www.friendsinthebee.com
www.ccarhomebrewclub.com
www.rubberduckie.net
www.quiltersnewsnetwork.com






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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 09:38:43 -0500
From: Dave Perez <perez15 at cox.net>
Subject: Just another Fridge question

So I know we can control a regular refrigerator and a chest freezer to 
fermenting temps with an external controller ala Johnson. My question 
is, can I control a forced air, upright freezer to refridge temps? I 
will initially use the external Johnson controller but want to 
ultimately change the original freezer thermostat to a refrigerator 
thermostat.
Will it Work???

Dave Perez
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL

Home of the Hogtown Brewoff November 19th. Get your entries in now!!!
http://www.hogtownbrewers.org/BrewoffFrames.html


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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:46:05 -0500
From: Vincent Dongarra <vdongarra at gmail.com>
Subject: Figures, don't it.

Directly after work yesterday, I went home and found all activity to
have stopped on my Pale Ale.  Thanks everyone, for your help.  Any
suggestions on an ale yeast that can do a little better at cooler ale
temps?

Thanks
Vincent
- --
Montgomery Village, MD
Bonum vinum laetificat cor hominis



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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:05:11 -0500
From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at henry-net.com>
Subject: Plate Chillers & Brewery Organization

First of all, I too miss the volume on HBD. Topics and responses here seem 
to have a depth and quality that aren't matched at other sites. I'd guess 
that most of the traffic has swung over to the relatively new AHA list 
which has a built-in member base.

OK, a couple of things:

1) With Christmas coming it's time to get brew-toys on the list. There 
seems to be a variety of plate chillers on the market ... Therminator, 
Shirron, etc. What are your experiences and recommendations (or 
non-recommendations). Do improvements in chill-down time and water savings 
justify the cost? Can these chillers actually be used in a gravity flow 
system, or should I also plan on adding a pump to the list?

2) Speaking of toys, it seems that I keep adding items to the basement 
brewery, but the floor space just doesn't get any larger. Are there any 
organization or storage tips and tricks out there that have helped make 
your brewery a more efficient and/or pleasant place to work?

Thanks lots,
Bob Hall
Napoleon, OH
65.3, 189.7 Rennarian




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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 08:55:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: strange layer in primary fermenter

Several times in the past, and on my latest brew, I have noticed a
phenomenon in my (glass) fermenters, in which there is a strange layer
on top of the beer.  It is the same color as the beer itself and can be
anywhere from very thin to maybe 3/4" thick.  It distinguishes itself
from the rest of the beer by being completely transparent--while below
it the beer is still hazy from what I am pretty confident is just yeast
that hasn't settled.

When you jostle the fermenter, the layer doesn't immediately mix with
the rest of the beer.  Instead it swirls and diffuses down into it.  If
you shake the carboy hard the layer will disappear, but hours later it
returns.

Beers that have shown this in the past have had no obvious accompanying
signs of infection.  This latest is a pretty standard tripel, with
1.072 OG from pils malt and 15% sugar, pretty light hopping, rising
ferment temp from an initial 66 up to 76 degrees F.  WY3787 from an XL
smack pack stepped up with a 1.5L starter, was still fermenting well (4
seconds/bubble on a 3-piece airlock) on the 6th day when I left town. 
Came back on the 9th day and fermentation appears to be stopped and it
is clearing just a bit, and there is also this layer.

I have thought in the past that this phenomenon is just the visual
effect of yeast fully settling out of the top layer first (as you would
expect), but the layer *seems* too well-defined and distinct for that. 
If a yeast is flocculating poorly, might such a layer appear at the
top?

I have also wondered if it is due to some (probably aerobic) bacteria
that somehow coagulates protiens.  In the past I have associated this
layer with excessive headspace in the secondary--and I did have to
remove the airlock from this 4G batch (in a 6.5 G carboy!) on day 3
because it filled with yeast, and it spent two days under a tight
aluminum foil cap.  When the airlock was then replaced on day 5 the
krausen was still 6" high, at least, and I would expect the
still-violent ferment did push most of the oxygen out, but maybe not.

Any ideas?  Has anyone seen this before?

Matt




 






		


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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 13:30:33 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: time to brew, indeed!

Someone suggested it is too quiet, so here goes Darrell :

What has been brewed at the Cumberland Head Brewery since July:

7/14/05: Bastille Dry Ale
Brewed on Bastille Day,  first use of wlp007
8.25 pale
 .25 Biscuit
 .5 Caraamber
20.2 IBU (Yakima Goldings and Tet)
OG 1.05
FG 1.010
%abv 5.26

7/22/05: English Dry Ale, 2nd use of wlp007
9.5 pale
 .25 Biscuit
 .25 Cara Amber
OG 1.053
FG 1.010
%abv 4.5
ibu 32.5 (Amarillo, and Brewers Gold)

7/31/05: English Red Ale, 3rd use of 007
6.33 pale
 .5 Crystal
4.5 Pilsner
pinch of Biscuit
OG 1.06
FG 1.004
ibu 42.2 (Amarillo and Brewers Gold)
%abv 7.4

8/10/05: Sleepwalker Brown Ale, 4th use of 007
10.5 pale
1 crystal (dark 80 lov)
 .5 Brown (Fawcett's)
OG 1.058
FG 1.005
ibu 29.6 (tet, Brewers Gold, Yakima Goldings)
%abv 7

8/25/05: Hefe, first use wlp300
6lb pils
3 lb wheat
1 lb rye
8 cups rice hulls
og 1.053
fg 1.009
ibu 18.2 (tet)
%abv 5.9

9/2/05: Rye Hefe Wit, 2nd use wlp300
6 pils
3 wheaqt
2 rye
12 cups rice hulls
this one had an identity issue: started as a hefe, but used corriander like a
wit
og 1.056
fg 1.010
ibu 15 (tet)
%abv 6

9/9/05: Jake's Blonde Abbey, 1st use wlp530
5.5 pils
2 wheat
1 vienna
1.5 Flaked Brown rice
og 1.052
fg 1.007
ibu 26.3 (home grown goldings, and Hal)
%abv 5.9

9/16/05: Zapatista Lager, Saflager s-23: 2 pkgs , re-hydrated
9.5 pils
 .5 CaraAmber
1.0 Vienna
og 1.06
fg 1.01
ibu 35.4 (home goldings, and Saaz)
%abv 6.6

9/23/05: Passing Thru Abbey, 2nd use of wlp530
7.5 pils
3 wheat
1 vienna
og 1.06
fg 1.01
ibu 31.5 ( home Goldings, and Hal)
%abv 6.6

9/30/05: Gingered Pale Ale, Safale SO4, 2 pkg rehydrated
10 pils
 .5 wheat
 .5 caraamber
lots of fresh ginger root in the boil
og 1.059
fg 1.010
ibu 38.7 (home goldings and Yakima goldings)
%abv 6.5

10/10/05: Sleepy Hollow Ale, 2 Danstar Nottingham, re-hydrated
6 pale
1 wheat
3 pils
1 carapils
touch special B
baked 1/4 of a large pumpkin, chopped, 350 degrees in oven for 1 hour, with lots
of spices, added to mash.
added tons of fresh ginger root, nutmeg, cardomom, allspice, clove, etc to the
boil
og 1.06
fg 1.007
ibu 35.1 (home goldings, and Brewers gold)
%abv 7

10/20/05: Brown Abbey, 3rd use of slurry from wlp530
7 pils
 .5 brown
1.5 wheat
1 KilnAmber
og 1.047
fg unknown...still in primary...I'm slippin..

11/4/05: Rusty's Steam Beer, wlp810 Calif Lager: first use
9.5 pale
 .5 CaraAmber
 .5 Vienna
og 1.057
fg not determined yet
not a british pale ale, but I put in some Burton Salts, just for kicks and
noticed a pH drop

11/11/05: California Common, 2nd use of wlp810 this will happen this friday.
recipe like the above, but with a little more zip.

I am just geeting caught up!

Happy Brewing!
Darrell
    Plattsburgh,NY 44 41 58 N Latitude
                   73 27 12 W Longitude

 [544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian





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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:13:50 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Fermentation Rate]]



Francisco asked about fermentation rate as a function of batch size. 
Ceteris paribus (including pitching rate) there should be no 
differences. If, OTOH, pitching rates are lowered a longer fermentation 
time and less overall attenuation can be expected as the yeast must 
spend longer in the log phase and must go through more generations which 
generally results in weaker cells. Another very major factor is 
temperature. The difference of a single degree can make a large 
difference. As a general rule a 4C change in temperature doubles or 
halves the rate of a reaction and the reactions taking place in yeast 
cells are no exception. Another factor which may have an influence is 
fermenter geometry. One in which for example the cooling jacket(s) cause 
the generation of circulating currents will keep the yeast cells in 
suspension and speed the fermentation relative to a geometry in which 
the liquid does not get circulated. And as another respondent mentioned, 
in a larger volume the ratio of surface area to mass contained goes down 
so that heat generated by the fermentation may build up if no steps are 
taken to remove it. This would result in faster (even runaway) 
fermentation.

This very subject is of interest to me because I have relatively 
recently returned to brewing after a hiatus of 4 years. My new supplier 
(the old one went out of business) tends to stock White Labs rather than 
Wyeast so I have been using White Labs with which I had no previous 
experience. I find the White Labs lager strains to be much slower than I 
remember similar Wyeast strains. To get a half a degree Plato per day I 
must hold the temperature at 50F whereas my recall is that I used to get 
nearly a degree a day from the simiular Wyeast strains at 47F which was 
always my standard temperature for lagers. My first Pils fermented at 47 
was in the fermenter nearly 7 weeks. Indeed the White Labs website 
indicates that lager fermentations may take a month or more. While I 
certainly cannot complain about the results in the case of that Pils who 
wants his fermenters tied up for 7 weeks? So the question is: have 
others found the White Lab lager strains to be slow or is my memory 
faulty (WRT to the current topic - I know it's faulty WRT to most other 
subjects)? I'll note that I have been pitching a 10% starter at 
fermentation temperature and oxygenate to 15 mg/L. I'm also aware that 
the Whitelabs website advises pitching at 70F and dropping to 48 - 55F 
only after things are well under way. I'm too chicken to do this being 
nervous enough about the growth metabolites in a starter of such volume 
grown at 70F.


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Date: Tue,  8 Nov 2005 16:39:54 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: cinnamon,...and haze?

Hey;

 Has anyone here made a correlation between the use of sticks of cinnamon, in 
the boil, and haze in the final product?  I have done this twice recently, 
using different yeasts (wlp530, and Danstar Notingham) and have found that both 
batches are hazy.  I brew frequently, and, unless it is a Hefe, or a wit, etc, 
they are not regularly hazy.

 Any ideas as to a relationship between haze and cinnamon?

Happy Brewing!
Darrell




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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 09:55:37 +1100 
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: RE: A true honeymoon [Sec: Unclassified]

Hey Aaron,
Why bother with a register? You do have a best man, doncha?! ;-)

Cheers, 

Rowan Williams 
Canberra Brewers Club 
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)


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Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 16:55:16 -0600
From: Francisco Jones <frandog at earthlink.net>
Subject: Bad year for hops (4th send attempt, thangyouverymuch)

Rama, near San Fran, laments:

   |The 2005 year was a wash for the hop vines this year too. Some squirrels
   |took an interest in the younger rhizomes of one varietal, so only the Mt
   |Hood survived- but interestingly didn't produce a single cone (despite
   |being 3 years old, and producing the previous 2 years. Whats up with
   |that?)

I had very high hopes this year for my two newest vines, an Ultra and a 
Willamette, since this was their second summer.  They are in half barrels 
so as to not take over the yard, but they are my only hops to have proper 
ropes to grow on (0.25 in diameter jute, 25 ft high).  However, this year 
they produced nothing, nada, the big zilcho!  A few (and I mean like 
literally, three) hops formed early on, but they stayed small, browned 
early, and had no aroma when crushed.  There was nothing at all to 
harvest.  Those two vines produced more harvestable hops the first year I 
planted them.  I think I got about 8g of Willamette and 17g of Ultra last 
year (dry weight).

You can imagine my disappointment!  I am awash in Casacdes every year, 
despite their inadequate trellis, but those vines are over 10 years 
old.  But I'm sick of Casacdes - I've been itching for some variety, and 
some hops more appropriate to style(s).  And even those Cascades didn't 
produce as well as the previous two years.  My Fuggles NEVER do well, but 
the harvest was zero this year, compared to something like 20g (dry) last 
year.  We did have a very dry and hot summer in the Chicago area this 
year.  I'm hoping the bad harvest is as simple as that, and not something 
more sinister.  But San Fran is a long way from here.

So bad hop crop in Chicago and San Fran for 2005.  Anyone else have harvest 
reports?

Just as a point of reference, because I'm a data nerd, my hops have been 
consistently losing 80% of their fresh-picked weight during the drying 
process.  I have been keeping better track this year than in previous 
years, so I can better estimate the expected dry weight right when I come 
in from the field.  I have seen 75% listed in the lit. as the amount of 
weight they will lose.  So I was surprised that mine are getting drier.  I 
have a good oast with plenty of space, forced air, and gentle heat.  That, 
plus the laminated O2 barrier bags (polyethylene/polyester) and a vacuum 
sealer have revolutionized my hop production and storage process.  Now I 
just need to find something more effective at tamping them than my 
fist.  An ammonia/alcohol solution is very effective at dissolving the 
staining, persistent yellow hop resins off your hands, vacuum sealer, and 
kitchen counter, btw.
Francisco Jones
Kankakee, IL
[256 magnetic/196 nm] AR




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Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 18:35:07 -0700
From: "eric" <zeee1 at nebonet.com>
Subject: Chocolate DME and salt brine ice chiller

Hello all

 If you have read my post on ice temp vs chilling temp, delete it from your
memory. I mistakenly wrote that if the ice is right at 32 f (melting point)
then adding salt would not lower the water temp.  My bad!

Adding salt to ice water will lower the temp of the water from the latent
heat in the ice.


 I would like to know what to expect from chocolate DME, adding one pound to
4-5 pounds of light DME for a 5 gallon batch. Is 1 lb too much? Is this
similar to "chocolate" grains, as in Porter-like?
Or is this more chocolate milk like?

Thanks

Eric

Deweyville, UT



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Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:31:31 +0000
From: "Kerry I. Wilkerson" <kerry_wilkerson_ui at lineone.net>
Subject: Small Cap Stox Can Sizzle

Great Pick for Professional Services Industry!!


In this issue of the November St0ck-Pick
Newsletter, the featured Play of the
Month is AccountAbilities, Inc. (HTSC). 

+++++++++++Current Profile++++++++++++
                                       
AccountAbilities, Inc. (OTC: HTSC) 
Symb0l: HTSC . pk                         
                                       
Current_Price: $0.12                   
                 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Watch this one trade starting Wednseday Morning
and Especially the rest of this week. 

The volume and price of this stock has been
ticking upward over the past week. A huge
PR campaign just started now and the price is
expected to continue its surge. Big increases
appear possible!

* 4 mi||i0n d0||ars in revenue over the next
12 months!!

About the company:

Established in 2001, AccountAbilities is a 
publicly traded company, currently trading 
under the symbol "HTSC." The company is 
engaged in the professional staffing industry, 
marketing, and management services to professional 
services firms in the Accounting and Professional 
fields.

* Seize Opportunity *

AccountAbilities is a U.S. based-company providing 
"niche" recruitment and marketing services for high-end 
professional service companies. 

Companies are increasingly contracting for the services
provided by AccountAbilities, Inc. This is due to the
volatile turnover rates in theprofessional 
services industry,

On Friday, AccountAbilities, Inc. announced
2 new service contracts with top-tier CPA firms.

These contracts are expected to bring $4,000,000
in revenue over the next 12 months, significantly
increasing current revenues.


Does It Sound New and Exciting To You?
How High Will This Stock Rise?
Please Review Exactly What this Company Does.  


Why Consider American Petroleum Group, Inc.'s? 

AccountAbilities, Inc. (HTSC), has recently
been awarded a contract to provide their services 
to Carter, Belcourt and Atkinson, a CPA firm out 
of Tampa, Florida and Tedder, James and Worden, 
a CPA firm out of Orlando, Florida. 

It is anticipated that each location will 
generate $2,000,000 in yearly revenue. It also 
anticipated that AccountAbilities, Inc will 
begin providing services to several other key 
clients before the year's end. 

Allan Hartley, President of AccountAbilities, 
stated, "This is a significant step for our 
company. Since joining our network they are 
billing on both permanent placement and contract 
placements within the first month of operations. 
This is a great catalyst toward our goal of 
providing services for 50 major and mid-level 
accounting and other professional firms across 
the U.S." 


** Go to your favorite Financial website to read 
   All the recent Breaking News for:

* AccountAbilities, Inc. (HTSC)! *
  Symbol: HTSC . pk 



Conclusion:

The examples above show the Awesome, Earning 
potential of little known Companies 
that Explode onto Investors Radar Screens. 
This st0ck will not be a Secret for long. 
You May Feel the Desire to Act Right Now! 
And Please Watch This One Trade! 

GO HTSC!
_____________________________________________

d1sc|aimer:
Inf0rmation within this em4i| cont4ins "f0rward
_l00king _st4tements" within the meaning of Sect10n 
27A of the Secur1t1es Act of 1933 and Section 21B 
of the Secur1t1es Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements 
that express or involve discussions with respect to 
predictions, goals, expectations, beliefs, plans, 
projections, objectives, assumptions or future events 
or performance are not statements of historical 
fact and may be "f0rward_|00king_st4tements." F0rward
_l00king_st4tements are based on expectations, 
estimates and projections at the time the statements 
are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties 
which could cause actual results or events to differ 
materially from those presently anticipated. This 
profile is in no way affiliated with the featured company.
Fifteen th0us4nd d0||ars was paid by a third party for the 
dissemination of this report.F0rward_|00king_st4tements 
in this action may be identified through the use of words
such as: "projects", "foresee", "expects", "estimates," 
"believes,""understands" "will," "part of: " anticipates," 
or that bystatements indicating certain actions "may,"
"could," or "might" occur. All information provided
within this email pertaining to investing, st0c.ks, 
securities must be understood as information provided 
and n0t investment_adv1ce. We advise all readers and 
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securities representative before deciding to trade in st0c.ks 
featured within this email. None of the material within this 
report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice. 
Please have in mind that the interpretation of the writer of 
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release meant to say. Look at the news release by yourself 
and judge by yourself about the details in it. If you wish to 
stop future m4ilings, please m4il to: no neednewsletter (at) 
www.yahoo.com



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