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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Odd final gravity ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: Odd final gravity (Pete Limosani)
  HBD: Odd final gravity (Randy Ricchi)
  Low final gravity ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Lager darkened  in keg ("Doug Moyer")
  Split Rock Competition Results ("Houseman, David L")
  re: Hop Storage (Mark Beck)
  RE: Hop Storage (Dennis Lewis)
  Hop storage ("Peed, John")
  Oxidized lager ("Steve Park")


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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:28:52 +0100
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Odd final gravity

On Monday, 21 November 2005 at 11:52:05 -0900, Alex MacGillivray wrote:
> I don't want to call this a problem because it's really not. I'd just like
> a little feedback from the community.
> The last several batches of beer I've made, including an oatmeal stout,
> have fermented all the way down to 1.010. I've been sticking to Wyeast
> 2112 and 1056 mostly, although other yeasts have produced the same effect.
> Five years ago I did a Trappist with an OG of 1.084 and it also
> fermented out to 1.010.
>
> Anyone else have this experience?

I don't think that it makes sense to mention attenuation without some
idea of the grain (and cane) bill.  I'd guess that you're using a fair
amount of sugar, right?

Greg
- --
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers


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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:44:50 -0500
From: Pete Limosani <peteLimo at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Odd final gravity

Alex MacGillivray writes, "The last several batches of beer I've made, 
including
an oatmeal stout, have fermented all the way down to 1.010...Anyone else have
this experience?"

Alex, I've been having a similar experience--but worse by the numbers.

8/21-Brewed Brown Ale O.G. = 1.050, T.G = 1.009 Notes show no significant 
issues
during brew session. Used 1056. One week primary and one week secondary at 70*
in kitchen. Tastes good.

9/18 - Brewed Vienna O.G. = 1.055 T.G. = 1.006 (2 weeks later when racking 
and 2
months later at bottling) Got the mash to a steady 152.5 quickly, then let it
mash for 2 hours 20 minutes (family issue took me away). Used 2263 Oktoberfest
Yeast from 2L starter. Two weeks primary at 50*. 7 weeks secondary at 35*. I
just bottled this Sunday and it tastes good. Even my wife likes it. But a 
Vienna
should not be this low.

9/25 - Brewed American Pale Ale O.G. = 1.050 T.G. = 1.005 Used new mash tun 
from
Mini Brew. Holes in the false bottom are bigger than old Phil's false 
bottom and
some grain got through. Also holds more water under false bottom, so it took
some effort getting temp stable at about 152*. Performed something of a
decoction to raise temperature. Removed some. Heated it close to boil. 
Returned
it. Used 1056. One week primary and one week secondary at 70* in kitchen. This
beer had a slight apple taste to it that is dissipating with age, but otherwise
tastes good.

10/2 - Brewed Bohemian Pilsner  O.G. =1.048 T.G = 1.008. I make this recipe a
lot and usually get T.G. = 1.012. Used new mash tun again and ground grain
larger to accommodate larger holes. Had to do a little decoction routine again
to get temp stable at 152*. Used 2278 from 2L starter. Two weeks primary at 
50*.
5 weeks secondary at 35*. I just bottled this Sunday and it tastes good.

All four of these are 3-10 points lower than expected. Different yeasts and
fermentation temperatures. Same base malt for all of them and I've used that
base malt for two other Pilsners and a Pale Ale that all ended at 1.012.

The latter three brews had some mashing issues--mostly temperature control--
could this be the culprit?




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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:20:29 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: HBD: Odd final gravity

Alex,
Two reasons for low final gravities in beer (assuming no infection, and
since you mention there are no off-flavors we can probably rule that
out):
Low saccharification temperature, and yeast strain.

Wyeast 1056 tends to be quite attenuative. It will take a 1.050 to 1.055
gravity beer down to 1.010 or even as low as 1.008 every time, unless
you have a ton of crystal malts or other relatively unfermentable malts
in your grist.

Many Trappist ale yeasts are even more attenuative. This tendency to
ferment to low final gravity is compounded by the fact that in many high
gravity trappist styles a portion of the grist is sugar which is pretty
much 100% fermentable. I've had 1.075 gravity tripels ferment down to
1.010, and I recall an article in either Zymurgy or Brewing Techniques a
few years back where they compared several different belgian ale yeasts
by splitting a batch several ways and fermenting with each strain. Some
of the strains fermented out to very low f.g's, something like 1.003 or
1.004!

I can't comment on the Wyeast 2112 since I don't recall which strain
that is.



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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:37:25 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Low final gravity

Nobody has (yet) mentioned one obvious possibility:  Your hydrometer
calibration has shifted, and your FGs are not actually low.  Have you
verified the hydrometer with water?  Water at the calibration temp (usually
either 60F or 68F) should read 1.000.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor



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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:11:28 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lager darkened  in keg

My memory doesn't always serve me well, but it seems that the once prolific 
Dr. Pivo claimed that adding a small batch (10%?) of new beer in high 
krausen would "rescue" an oxidized beer. Wouldn't take much to try it 
out....



Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Shyzabrau Homebrewery: http://users.adelphia.net/~shyzaboy/homebrewery.html





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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:58:37 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: Split Rock Competition Results

The Great Brews of America Home Brew Competition sponsored by the Split
Rock Resort and to the benefit of the Make-A-Wish Foundation was held on
Saturday, November 19th.  We had 140 entries, so thanks to all that
entered.  The results are posted at:
http://www.splitrockresort.com/beerfest/homebrew-competition.php.
Embarrassingly I have to congratulate myself for BOS :-)).   To show how
well laagering works to improve beers, my entries were recovered by the
back of my beer fridge, forgotten after almost a year of unintentional
laagering.    I want to thank all the judges and stewards who showed up
to participate.  

David Houseman



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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:43:28 -0800
From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu>
Subject: re: Hop Storage

         Breweries store their hops in vacuum sealed bags, under 
refrigeration.  They typically have vacuum sealers that they use to reseal 
their hops after they've been opened.  Your unopened hops should keep just 
fine as you describe.

         The timing of this post is interesting.  A week ago a friend had a 
13 lb bale of hops that we split up, and stored in vacuum sealed bags.  I 
bagged mine in 4 oz increments, as that's a typical amount I'll use for a 
batch.  After a week I noticed that two of my bags didn't seal properly.

         To remedy this, just yesterday I went to the store and got a 2 1/2 
quart vacuum storage container--it cost about $12 new.  This container will 
hold about 8 oz of dry, flower hops.  It's essentially one of these:

http://www.bimart.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=600789

I took a piece of 1/4" tubing, sealed it into the end of my vacuum cleaner 
with a rag, and used it to evacuate the canister.  Works great!  Granted, 
I've only had this thing for a day, but it stayed sealed quite tightly 
overnight in my freezer.

Mark    Beck
Walla Walla, WA

__________________________________________________
Fred Johnson Writes:

Considering that hops are generally harvested only at one time of the
year--please correct me where I'm wrong--and considering that
commercial breweries use lots of hops, I assume these breweries,
especially the best ones that take care to obtain the best ingredients
and maintain consistency, have a standard method of storing their
year's supply of hops to maintain their freshness until the hops from
the next season come in.

Do they package their hops in small amounts? Do they purge the storage
container with an inert gas? Do they simply freeze them?

(I always find myself ordering at this time of year and often buy more
than I'l actually use until next season. I keep them in a -15-20 C
freezer in their original oxygen barrier bags, but it is really
impossible for me to keep air out of the bags after they've been
opened.)

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA





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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:29:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Dennis Lewis <admin at dblewis.com>
Subject: RE: Hop Storage

Fred Johnson asks about hop storage in a large brewing
facility.....

One anecdotal, but first hand data point was an
in-depth tour of the Anheuser-Busch brewery in Houston
in the early 90's. We got to walk through the hop
room, which was a large, semi-cooled room that was
wall-to-wall hop bales of about dozen different
varieties. What a great smell! There were lots of
varieties that most of our group had never heard of
before.

The bales were just broken open and they would weigh
out the whole flower hops in large plastic buckets,
like 30 gal trashcans, but food-grade. There were no
provisions for repackaging or storage of open bales
since, at 10 million barrels a year, they were going
through a lot of them, even at their meager hopping
rates. I suppose that truckloads of bales were stored
in refrigerated rooms, but we didn't see those.

As an aside, we guessed (having not asked at the time)
that they use that many varieties to mitigate seasonal
crop differences.

I took the Siebel Microbrewery Operations course way
back in 1995 (before kids, like brewers fantasy camp)
and worked at the (now defunct?) Chicago Brewing Co.
It was like a large homebrew op where they used
pellets exclusively and had to shovel out the 50 bbl
mashtun by hand (the motor that turned grain rakes was
broken). They kept these in the freezer, just like
you'd expect, but they only used several pounds a day.
I think the pellets came in 8 lb bags, but that seems
like an odd number now.

Reminiscing,

Dennis Lewis
Warren, OH




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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:51:38 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Hop storage


Fred asks about hop storage.  I suspect that a lot of micros order 11
lb. bricks from Hop Union, probably along the lines of just-in-time.  As
far as I know, Hop Union keeps the vacuum-packed or nitrogen-flushed
packs in a cold warehouse.

As far as I can tell, you can't beat a Seal-A-Meal or its equivalent,
the food vacuum packer, for storing hops once you get them.  It allows
nicely condensed packing, particularly with whole hops, and you can
re-vacuum and re-seal them any time you remove some.  I highly recommend
it.  Obviously, you want to store them in the freezer (not the fridge;
the colder the better).

The whole hop thing is irritatingly mysterious to me.  I'm convinced
that hop quality is crucial, particularly with American hops used in
large doses for aroma and flavor, but it's nearly impossible to find out
who has the best ones, where they come from, how old they are, how
they're stored, or anything.  Every source claims theirs are the best,
but most won't give any specifics to back that up.  I'm reluctant to say
on-line who I think has the best hops, because I have no justification
for saying so, other than my nose and taste buds.  Does anyone know how
to get real "inside information" on quality hops, or does anyone care to
venture their opinion on where to get them?

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN






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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:12:36 -0600
From: "Steve Park" <parkwebonly at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Oxidized lager

Sorry for the pseudonym on last post - didn't realize I hadn't set up my
name in my Outlook e-mail account.

Now that I know my lager was likely a victim of oxidation, I guess I need to
start eliminating potential future sources. I'm starting by switching from
siphon to CO2 for transferring from fermenter to fermenter to keg.

Any good setups/tips for moving beer around like this? Will carboy caps seal
well enough? If I use carboy caps, what's the best way to hook up the CO2 to
the cap? Any other good gadgets for doing this?

Steve Park




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