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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Renewed Fermentation ("MICHAEL HOBART")
  RE: Beer engine and cask conditioned ale ("Benjy Edwards")
  Re: Duvel Clone incremented feeding (Paul Waters)
  pedantic or didactic ("steve.alexander")
  ph meters (zukoskyrobert)
  Merry Christmas!!! ("Pat Babcock")
  brewing software (Ken Pendergrass)
  yeast starter problem ("John Bryce")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:06:38 -0800
From: "MICHAEL HOBART" <M-HOBART at msn.com>
Subject: Renewed Fermentation

Good Day Beer Lovers,

I have a Russian Imperial Stout that I have been bulk aging for
13 months. 3 days prior to my planned bottling date I added White
Labs Champagne yeast (which I have done with a previous Barley
Wine and 2 stong Belgian ales with good success) only to find after
2 days I had a thin foam layer on top of the beer and bubbles in 
the airlock every 8 seconds. My O.G. was 1.099 and had settled at 1.012
(lower than the projected 1.020) then after 2 days was down to 1.010.
Not wanting it to dry out anymore and fear of bottle bombs I racked it
into a corny keg and placed it in an outdoor shed where the temp was 
ranging between 27-33 degrees to deactivate the yeast. After 5 days of 
freezing weather the temp is starting to rise and so are my fears of 
the fermentation starting again. Was 5 days of freezing temps enough 
to permantly stop the yeast or as temp goes up will they just take up 
where they left off?
Is there anything else I can do that won't adversely affect the beer?

Thank You in advance for any advice given.

Mike Hobart
Portland,OR


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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:56:11 -0500
From: "Benjy Edwards" <rdbedwards at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Beer engine and cask conditioned ale

To Bill:

Some good books are Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home, by Roger Protz and 
Graham Wheeler, and the CAMRA Guide to Home Brewing, by Graham Wheeler.  
There's also a booklet called The PErfect Pint, by Ray Daniels, that's 
available for order.  Check out http://www.realalefestival.com/PP.html

For info on finding sources for casks, etc. visit my website:

http://www.boathousebrewery.com/

Specifically, check out the links and the "About Real Ale" pages.

Benjy Edwards.

>From: "Bill Kunka" <wkunka at vianet.ca>
>Subject: Beer engine and cask conditioned ale
>
>Hello all,
>
>I was hoping some of you could tell me a good book or website that would
>help me craft a cask conditioned ale. Also anyone have a site that has 
>plans
>to build a beer engine? Or know of a source to get casks (or how to make
>one) to condition the ale in?
>
>Thanks
>Bill Kunka




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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:58:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Waters <pwaters3 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Duvel Clone incremented feeding

Kevin
I to am planning on brewing a Belgian Golden ale.

My planned grain bill
9lbs 	Pilsner Malt
2lbs 	Carapils Malt
 .5lbs 	Aromatic Malt
1lbs 	Belgian Candi Sugar Clear (may up another 1/2
pound)
1	Belgian Strong Ale Yeast 1388-XL Activator

With Styrian Golding Hops
with a double decoction mash

After reading your post I googled Duvel and got this
link

Http://www.duvelusa.com/beer.php?cat=brewing

Interesting reading!
The mashing is a 4hr process, which is what it usually
takes me to do a double decoction. I don't see that
much of increase in darkening/caramelizing by
decoction mashing. Though my grain bill will make it
slightly darker, less then 1 SRM point.

The interesting part on the website is Duvel started
with a Scottish yeast and they ferment 62'F - 82'F.
This is the part that really makes me ponder on the
technique.

The banana character, at least to my understanding
with wheat beers can be increased by under pitching
and having long lag times. I also wonder if its a
fixed temp ferment or do they start high then droop or
start cool and go up. Which method would increase the
ester production? 

Hopefully we can get some feedback on the fermentation
to help reach the banana and ester products without
over doing it or under doing it.


Paul W
Mad Cow Brewing

And to all have a Merry Christmas and a homebrew


		


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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:12:03 -0500
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: pedantic or didactic 

John Peed wrote ...,

>And I think the problem that some people have with the more esoteric
>posts is that they come off as pedantic.

Really ?  I intend to be didactic - to explain things in enough detail
so someone without specialized knowledge can follow along. I suspect
it seems pedantic if you lack curiosity about the topic, but that's
more a reflection on the reader than the poster.

>The HBD Discussion forum would seem to be a much better place for
>esoteric discussions [...] In other words, people who actually find
>it interesting.

Any topic will only engage a fraction of the audience. If measuring
the course of fermentation isn't of general interest on HBD then it's
unlikely anything will be.  To get beyond current practice in
measurement we must discuss minutiae - but how exactly does this harm
anyone ?  I understand that not everyone is personally interested in
pushing the limits of HB instrumentation, but certainly it should be
met with curiosity and interest rather than banished to some other
forum.

Common HBD discussions of wort cooling, oxygenation, yeast selection
and basic sanitation would seem pointless and esoteric to most 18th
century brewers since they couldn't understand the practical importance
of these things.  The line between "esoteric" and "useful"
discussions is determined by the readers understanding and curiosity
as well at the topic material.  Lack of understanding is often
correctable, lack of curiosity is not.

- --

On DarrellL's Einstein quote .... No offense taken or intended Darrell,
but I don't understand the relevance.   I'd contend that to a brewer
fermentation progress 'can be counted' and does 'count'.  I'm just
looking for a better 'count'.

And to all ... happy holidays, Christmas, Hanukkah, Yule, Shabe-Yalda,
Saturnalia, Lenaea, Alban Arthuan, Inti Raymi, Soyal, (too late for
Rohatsu?), Kwanzaa, Festivus, and belated Winter Solstice (Summer
Solstice for you upside-down types).  {now that's pedantic !}

 -S




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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:23:15 -0500
From: <zukoskyrobert at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: ph meters

What is the skinny on ph meters? Hanna or Extech or any other suggestions. 
$100 range
 -bobz 



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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:57:08 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Merry Christmas!!!

Greetings, Beerlings! Club me with your yule log...

Folks, I want to wish you the Merriest of Christmases! Please, when out
enjoying what this holiday has to offer - good friends, food, and great
beers - please handle yourself responsibly so that we are all back here
next week to wish each other a Hoppy New Year!

All the best!

Pat Babcock
Chief Of Janitorial Services 
janitor at hbd.org



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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 19:00:16 -0500
From: Ken Pendergrass <kenp794 at comcast.net>
Subject: brewing software

Merry Christmas,
Is there a brewing software program, preferably for OS X, which will 
allow one to enter the amounts of grain and adjuncts for a mash in % and 
will calculate the actual amount required of each ingredient to make a 
specified quantity of wort? While were at it perhaps it could calculate 
for color, utilization, carbonization, the whole nine yards,  and 
recalculate each as I adjust quantities of one or more ingredient.  And 
if not for Mac then how about, shudder, for Windows?
Thanks,
Ken

         



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Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:27:43 -0500
From: "John Bryce" <jbryce at vt.edu>
Subject: yeast starter problem

I recently made 2 liters of wort from extra light DME to be used as
starters.  I had only done this once before, years ago.  I heated up my
water to maybe 150 F and then started adding and mixing in the DME.  I
predicted that I would need something like 6 ounces to get to 10-11 P
(1.040-1.044 SG).  I took a gravity reading after I mixed in the 6 ounces
thoroughly and it was low, so I added more DME and re-sampled a few times
until I got to about 10.5 P.  I boiled it for about 6 minutes, cooled it to
50 F rapidly, and then poured equal parts into 2 separate growlers.  This
gave me 2 half gallon growlers that were each half full (1 liter).  I
pitched a white labs vial of lager yeast into one and some lager yeast that
I had recently harvested into the other.  I shook both of them up to aerate
and put them in ambient temp of ~54 F.

I saw no visible activity in the harvested yeast starter.  I started taking
gravity readings after 2 days to see what the hell was going on and I got
7.4 P.  The yeast sedimented out and the wort was bright and flat.  I moved
everything to ambient temperature of mid 60's.  Same thing days later.

I saw very slight activity (a few large bubbles on the surface) in the
starter from the vial on day 2.  Gravity was 7.6 P then and now.  There was
some carbonation present and there was some yeast in suspension.  The
carbonation dissipated and the yeast dropped out around day 4.

Currently I have only one theory as to what happened:  There is a reasonable
chance that the yeast (both strains had been stored in the same fridge)
froze.  It was not frozen when I pitched it, however I had never seen it
stick to the vial's walls/bottom that much before.  The fridge had been set
colder than it should have.  The cheap thermometer that I have in there read
30 F when I pulled out the yeast.

I guess there is also a remote chance that I screwed up the wort and it
ended up being really high gravity, but I think that is a long shot since I
took multiple readings with a commercial brewery hydrometer that I know is
good and only boiled it for ~6 minutes after my last reading.

Any other theories or tips?  I'm going to try again with new yeast next
week. I hit my local homebrew listserv before this one, and one guy had this
to say:

"I have had two extract beers finish extra high: 1.076 to 1.040 and 1.079 to
1.043.  I was using extra light DME from the same supplier.  I added two
tablets of Beano to each carboy.  Both of these beers continued to drop pass
1.025.  This implies that the malt extract had a large amount of
unfermentables in it. (Before I added Beano to one of the beers, I created a
new starter and added
it - no fermentation.  With Beano, fermentation occurred.)"

Thanks for any info. -jb



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