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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE:  Questions from a newbie ("Kyle Jones")
  Homebrew shops in Houston ("Kyle Jones")
  Cyser (K.M.)" <kmuell18@visteon.com>
  Re: Cyser ("Pat Babcock")
  Growing Hops -- is it worth the effort? (Wil Reed) (wilkreed)
  questions from a newbie ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  re: Growing Hops -- is it worth the effort? (Greg Brewer)
  hops, grapes, all grain (Glyn Crossno)
  Re: Lookin' for yeast advise for Imperial Stout... ("Alex Sheftel")
   ("Stock, Curtis")
  Re: questions from a newbie (Scott Alfter)
  Brewing hops and grapes on your hiatus ("Pat Babcock")


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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:31:47 -0500
From: "Kyle Jones" <kjones1 at ufl.edu>
Subject: RE:  Questions from a newbie

A good basic text on brewing, in my opinion, is, of course, The New
Complete Joy
of Homebrewing, by Papzian.  For something with some more meat, try New
Brewing
Lager Beer by Noonan.  I'm sure you'll get plenty of recommendations,
but those are
two of the six or so books I have, and I think they would suit you best.

Kyle




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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:36:34 -0500
From: "Kyle Jones" <kjones1 at ufl.edu>
Subject: Homebrew shops in Houston

I am moving to Houston in March to take a job at MDACC, and I am
in the process of identifying important things about Houston, the most 
important being the location of a good homebrew supply shop in the area.
I am buying a house in The Woodlands, so somewhere on the north side of 
of the city would be ideal.  Advice regarding places to drink/buy some
good beer would be appreciated as well.  I would also like to venture
out 
and join a homebrewing club, if anyone knows of any in the area.  Thanks
in advance for any and all information.

Kyle




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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:24:03 -0500
From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
Subject: Cyser

I posted on the AHA techtalk, and didn't get an answer.  I'm glad to fall
back into the fold and ask a question on the HBD!  I guess I know where I'll
ask first next time a question arises!

Back just before Halloween, I started a cyser.  5 gal cider, 1 gal honey,
some yeast nutrient/energizer, and D47 yeast and lots of O2 from shaking and
agitating.  After about a month I racked from plastic to a 6.5 gal glass
carboy.  Tasted great, still cloudy, awesome gold color.  A few weeks later
it was clearing with a color similar to StrongBow, but I thought it should
be brighter (flavor was good, but definitely had a tartness to it).  I added
a bit of pectic enzyme and racked into a 5 gal carboy, filling it to the
top.  Its now starting to (very) slowly clear (this is after about 3 weeks),
but it has darkened considerably.

In my readings, I've read about a malo-lactic fermentation.  Is it possible
that it has gone through a ML fermentation, and that's what darkened it, or
is it likely that I oxidized it, and that's what caused the darkening?  

Anyone want to explain an ML fermentation to me?  Any other ideas of why it
would have darkened?

Thanks!
Kevin
Canton, MI


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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:28:29 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: Cyser

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

On 24/Jan/2006 08:24 "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com> wrote:

> I posted on the AHA techtalk, and didn't get an answer.  I'm glad to fall
> back into the fold and ask a question on the HBD!  I guess I know where
> I'll
> ask first next time a question arises!

As always, glad to have you here!

> Back just before Halloween, I started a cyser....  
> ...Its now starting to (very) slowly clear (this is after about 3 weeks),
> but it has darkened considerably.
> 
> In my readings, I've read about a malo-lactic fermentation.  Is it possible
> that it has gone through a ML fermentation, and that's what darkened it,
> or
> is it likely that I oxidized it, and that's what caused the darkening?
> 
> Anyone want to explain an ML fermentation to me?  Any other ideas of why
> it
> would have darkened?

While I can't explain ML Fermentation to you (except for its effect on the 
flavor of your product), as with beer, as the cider (or cyser ,in your case 
:o) drops clear, it will appear to darken. This is because the yeast and 
particles of other flocculent matter reflect the light from within the 
liquid, while the bright liquid lets more of it pass. I wouldn't be concerned 
about any unwanted microbial activity unless indicated in the flavor.

In short, I'd sample it before being concerned over it. If ML fermentation has,
in fact, occurred, though I'm not sure what the impact to the color of your 
cyser would be, the "tartness" or sharpness of the cyser's acidity should be 
lessened - which, you may find, improves it!

- --
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE MI
janitor at hbd.org
[18, 91.8] Apparent Rennerian - Home of the HBD




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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:00:12 -0500
From: wilkreed at netscape.net
Subject: Growing Hops -- is it worth the effort? (Wil Reed)



Bill Velek asks about growing ones own hops.

I have grown hops for seven years now, and have enjoyed watching this 
fast growing plant develop each year.  On some summer days you can 
actually watch the vine grow!

Be very careful when putting it in your garden, as it spreads (not 
unlike kudzu)

If you want to contain it, get a big barrel with the bottom cut out and 
sink it 3-4 feet into the ground, fill with soil and plant the hop 
cutting in the barrel.  That seems to keep it contained to some degree.

As for practical use, it is hard to determine the amount to use, as the 
alpha acid levels will vary from year to year depending upon the 
weather.  I have found that I like to use most of my crop (3 hills) in 
an annual Fresh Hop IPA.  Nothing beats the aroma and flavor you get 
 from a brew using hops freshly pick from the vine.  And if you like 
high hop brews, the alpha acid calculations are not so vital.  
Unfortunately this method makes it hard to reporduce results.

I think it is worth the effort, but you will not be able to grow all 
your own hops, and you will still need to buy commercial hops for which 
the alpha acids are known for most of your brews.

Enjoy!

William Reed


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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:30:05 -0500
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: questions from a newbie

Hi Rob! Saw your post to the HBD, 
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/4935.html#4935-8 .

Regarding question #1, I suggest starting with a volume slightly more 
than 5 gal. Also, when boiling, you should leave your pot partly 
covered, so that less is lost to evaporation.

Regarding question #2, I suggest "How to Brew" by John Palmer. It's a 
book you can buy or you can read it free online here: 
http://www.howtobrew.com/ . Wish I had it when I started homebrewing.

Hope this helps!

Sincerely,
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Beer Data: http://hbd.org/ensmingr





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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:10:29 -0600
From: Greg Brewer <gbrewer1 at gmail.com>
Subject: re: Growing Hops -- is it worth the effort?

Bill Velek is considering planting and growing his own hops or grapes.
 I've been growing my own for the last eight years, and it is a
love/hate affair.  I love how fast and full they grow and their
bountiful production, and the shade they provide for my house.  I hate
having to haul out and climb a tall ladder to string them up and take
them down, and the constant need to prune them early on.  I have also
battled red spider mites for most of the years I've grown hops, with
varying degrees of successful control.  I still end up with more hops
than I can use each year.

Around late April the bines start sprouting and looking for something
to climb.  This puts the pressure on me to get my lines up, otherwise
they overgrow the garden fence, the A/C unit, anything at all they can
reach.  For each bine I drop four lines from the 24-foot roof line on
the sunny south side of my house and stake them in the center of each
plant.  Then I train two or three bines on each line clockwise, and
start cutting back all the others.  If it gets warm, daily pruning is
not too often, these things send out shoots above and below the ground
all over the place.  By the end of May they have reached my roof line
and start to fill in.  By the middle of summer they are a tall wall of
leaves supplying welcome shade - I found three cardinal nests in my
Cascades when I dropped them last fall.

Picking them is easy but time consuming.  I drop the bines to the
ground in late August or early September and start filling buckets. 
It takes a long time but I have so many I just pick until I tire of it
then dry them on old window screens in my garage for a week or two.  I
end up with a half pound or so of dried flowers from each bine, which
is all I need.  Sometimes I put the harvested bines back up for the
shade, or I just cut them down.

Not knowing the precise AA% has not been much of a problem.  I use
average values and usually get close enough.  This year's crop
suffered from a very dry summer and the AA% was lower than usual; my
first batch confirmed this and I adjusted subsequent batches
accordingly.  But if you need to be more precise then you have to buy
rated hops, which I still do on occasion.  I grow four varieties but
am seeing more and more new varieties out there that I am curious to
try.

My advice to Bill is to figure out a way to give them the vertical
space they need without having to use a ladder.  Maybe some kind of
pulley system, something I'm considering, or perhaps a trellis like
for grapes.  I am more space constrained so you may not need to prune
as much as I do, which makes it easier.  You might like to plant just
one and see how it goes before you decide to keep going.  I picked a
usable harvest by my second year, but remember, hops are relatively
cheap.  There have been many times when I'm up on the ladder or after
hours of picking when I question why I bother with them and swear I
will quit.  But so far I have changed my mind every spring when I spy
the first shoots twisting out of the ground...

Greg in Chicago



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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 07:50:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Glyn Crossno <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: hops, grapes, all grain

Grow the hops! Lots of fun. The main thing to 
remember is location, location, location. LOTS of sun,
good drainage,  lots of water, mulch, some thing to
climb.
  
Grow grapes, another very fun crop.  
  
For a 1 hour boil I plan on losing 1 gallon to
evaporation. So just take that into account when you
mash/sparge. 
  
All grain: Do you do full wort boils? Do you have a
way to chill the wort quickly? If the answer to those
are yes, then you are almost ready for all grain. I
got to all grain as cheaply as possible, and then
added on over the years. Most of us have a cooler
laying around, some copper pipe add slots, bang mash
tun. Check out www.howtobrew.com, or  buy it! 
  
I like software to track and help calculate  recipes,
so check out a few, suds, pro mash, ..... I did a
triple for  my first all grain, figuring that if
extraction was bad, I would still  have a decent beer.
It was not a bad day, timing is something you learn 
with practice. And the beer was great!
  
Glyn Crossno
  Southern Middle TN

I know I have not posted in forever, but thanks to all
that have. Thanks to Pat for keeping HBD alive. Lets
all try to keep the queue full in 2006. Questions:
Spices for a Grand Cru? Grains? Yeast?
Can I use a hand pump tap, and just redirect the air
line to my CO2 bottle when at home?



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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:28:25 -0500
From: "Alex Sheftel" <asheft at po-box.mcgill.ca>
Subject: Re: Lookin' for yeast advise for Imperial Stout...

Mike,

I'm just about to polish off a keg of Imperial Stout that I made last summer 
using "Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)."  I put that in quotations because of the 
yeast's history: it was grown from a single colony that was frozen at -80 C 
for a while and then I grew up to approximately a 1.5 litre starter in small 
steps over the course of about 5 days.  I pitched that starter into around 
23 litres of 1.083 SG wort which I had whisked for a couple minutes to 
oxygenate.  On around days 4 and 5 I put my (open) fermentor onto a stir 
plate and let the fermentation swirl for a few hours to rouse the yeast. 
After about a week, the SG was around 1.014.  It dropped about another point 
in secondary.  The beer is delicious.  Send me an email if you have any more 
questions.

Cheers,
Alex 



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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:31:33 -0600
From: "Stock, Curtis" <Curtis.Stock at state.mn.us>
Subject: 

MCAB Brewers,

All notifications to MCAB VIII Qualifying Brewers have been made.  I
could not find contact information for two brewers:

Kelly Harris - no club - qualified in the Bluebonnet with a Cat. 1 entry
Harlan Plagmann - CFHB - qualified in the Sunshine Challenge with a Cat.
1 entry

The brewers or anyone with contact information may respond to me at
mailto:curt at sphbc.org

There are 161 MCAB VIII qualifying brewers.  135 were contacted by
email, 25 by snail mail and 2 unaccounted for.

103 brewers responded that they have been contacted.  Anyone receiving
this who has not been contacted but think they may have qualified for
MCAB VIII, may check the website ( http://hbd.org/mcab/qualifiers8.html
)to look up their name.  If you are listed as a qualifying brewer and
have not contacted me please do so.

All entry information is on the MCAB site.
http://hbd.org/mcab/index.html

Event information and call for judges will be made very soon.

Medals will be given to the top three brewers in each category with the
top finisher from each category going on to Best of Show.  Prizes will
be given for the BOS winner and the two runner ups.

Curt Stock
MCAB Organizer



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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:46:46 -0800
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie

"Moose Joose" <brewinmoosejoose at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 1. When I'm doing my hour boil, I seem to lose an awful lot of water to 
> steam (1/2 gallon or more).  Should I plan for that by starting with 5.5 or 
> 6 gallons in the pot or do something else to address the issue?  Turn the 
> heat down?  Add water to 5 gal. during the last 15 minutes?  I'm jealous of 
> every ounce in the bottle so I'd like to make sure I get a full batch.

You're only losing a half-gallon?  I usually boil away twice as much.

You want to start with a larger volume so that you end at 5 gallons.  If you're
losing a half-gallon per hour to evaporation, start with 5.5 gallons if you're
going to boil for 60 minutes, or 5.75 gallons if you're going to boil for 90
minutes.  The wort will start out a bit weak, but another word for
"evaporation" is "concentration."  If you're somewhere near 5 gallons at the
end of the boil, the starting gravity for your beer should be close to what the
recipe says it should be.

> 2. Can anyone recommend a good, relatively easy to understand guide to 
> beginning all-grain brewing?

John Palmer has a pretty good overview of the process and equipment on his
website:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/index.html

  _/_  Scott Alfter
 / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://snafu.alfter.us/      Top-posting!
 \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?




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Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:48:01 -0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Brewing hops and grapes on your hiatus

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

On brewing texts...

> Regarding question #2, I suggest "How to Brew" by John Palmer. It's a 
> book you can buy or you can read it free online here: 
> http://www.howtobrew.com/ . Wish I had it when I started homebrewing.

What he said! (But, then, I started brewing with books that are 
historical relics now...) Plus, I like Dave Miller's books. TCJOHB 
is a good beginner's book, but don't take what's written there as 
gospel. Some good recipes to try. Byron Burch's old tome deserves a look, as 
does Noonan's books. Randy Mosher's book is fun and has some good starts
for data collection on your beers (data collection affords replication, 
it do). My favorite is a book called, I think, The Brewmaster's Bible or 
Handbook or some such thing (they say the memory's the second thing to 
go...). I'll have to go down into the dungeon and see if I can find it and 
who wrote it...

Best advice, though, is to go out, by a "can" kit (or a pouch kit, or a 
DME kit...) and "git 'er done!" The Number One thing most brewers can 
cite as the thing that turned them from "I think I wanna" brewers into 
home brewers was getting that first batch brewed, fermented, bottled and 
tasted. To this end, there are several respectable kits out there to get 
you over that particular hump. Oh! You've already done that. Harumph. 
Certainly... But for all you others lurking out there, thinking about 
diving in - it's the best advice I can give you :o)


=================
On hops or grapes... 

I say: grow 'em both! I have both growing in my yard. 

Heed well the advice regarding containment of the hops - the area behind 
my shed is like a briar patch with 'em, and it would take a small thermo-
nuclear incident to disuade their continued existence there. Notable in 
this Knowledge McNugget[tm] is that I never PLANTED any behind the shed. 
I planted then further down the fence...

My grapes have afforded us many jars of jam over the years (I'm not a wine 
guy). If your neighbor has huskies, be advised that grape canes seem to be 
their "chaw of choice". Of course, I haven't had to cane the vines back 
since they moved in...

=================
On brewing hiatuseroceroses...

> you have a carboy of mead on the counter you made the year your 5 year 
> old was born which has been clear and waiting to be bottled for the last 
> 18 months........

Ha! Piker! My youngest boy is 7-1/2, and the mead AND cider I brewed at his 
birth both languish in their carboys. They've been clear for years. (I think 
I'll be bottling them to commemorate his graduation from high school.)

It's been a hiatus of biblical proportions...

 - --
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE MI
janitor at hbd.org
[18, 91.8] Apparent Rennerian - Home of the HBD


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