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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  carbonation with dry ice ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  Thermometers (Thomas Rohner)
  RE:  Dry Ice (Bill Tobler)
  RE:  Thermometers ("David Houseman")
  RE:  Thermometer ("Michael Hartsock")
  RE: Thermometers ("Mike Sharp")


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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:35:14 -0500
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: carbonation with dry ice

Using dry ice to carbonate. Good idea!

When I was a kid, I remember dropping dry ice into my Hawaii Punch to
make instant soda pop. Worked great. It would be nice to drop some dry
ice into a corny keg for instant carbonation of beer.

This led me to ask ...
* Is commercial dry ice "food grade"? It seems that (at least) some of
it is, since foods, drugs, and other consumables are routinely shipped
in dry ice packing.
* Is the CO2 in the tanks that I now use to carbonate my beer "food
grade"? I buy from a welding supply shop.

Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Beer data: http://hbd.org/ensmingr/




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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 08:19:58 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Thermometers

Hi all
i have read those thermometer postings. I am using a Greisinger GTH 
175/PT for years. It's a precision handheld unit and you can even have 
it certified. I did a test with 2 of these units and a fever thermometer 
in around 40 celsius waterbath. They were accurate to 0.1 celsius(all 
three showed exactly the same value!!!). It measuers from -199.9 to 
199.9 celsius with a resolution of 0.1 the accuracy is 0.1 or 1 digit 
over the whole range. I don't know if they produce a farenheit version, 
or if they sell it in the US. They are sold here by conrad and others 
for around 55$. It's not a cheepo throwaway item, rather a reference 
unit you can trust.

Cheers Thomas




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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:47:05 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <brewbetter at houston.rr.com>
Subject: RE:  Dry Ice

Doug asks about using dry ice to cool and carbonate your beer.  I did  
my "Fun with Dry Ice" experiments when I first started making beer.   
I had a free source at work so I first started playing around with 20  
ounce plastic Coke bottles and cold water.  After blowing up a few  
under controlled conditions, I started cutting back on the dry ice  
until the bottles stopped blowing up.  PLEASE, DO NOT PLAY AROUND  
WITH DRY ICE AND GLASS BOTTLES!  You will make glass bombs and hurt  
yourself.  I don't remember the exact amount of dry ice for a 20  
ounce plastic bottle, but it was around 3 to 3.5 grams with about a  
one inch headspace.  (This was using cold water)  The bottle gets  
rock hard, and I have to admit it was scary and I would not suggest  
holding the bottle.  We always put the bottle in the sink under a 5  
gallon bucket.  Add a little lemon to the water and it makes for a  
nice carbonated water drink.

I brought some dry ice home and adjusted the amount for a 1L plastic  
bottle with some uncarbonated beer, the bottle started getting way  
too hard so I put it in the sink under a bucket and a few minutes  
later it blew up, beer everywhere but mostly contained in the  
bucket.  That ended my "Fun with Dry Ice" days and now I just use it  
on Halloween night to make smoke.   As far as cooling and carbonating  
at the same time, I think you have to use way too much dry ice to  
cool the beer without over carbonating.


Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.2, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
Brewing Great Beer in South Texas



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:47:58 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE:  Thermometers

Dave,

The calibration procedures are well known and even recently published in BYO
or Zymurgy.   I've used these procedures a number of times.  The problem as
I've found it is that thermometers, particularly the bi-metal probe
thermometers, are not linear.   While the heat capacity of water may be
constant across the range, the linearity of the thermometers is not.  Get
them aligned at 32oF and they are off at boiling; get them aligned at
boiling and they are off at 32oF.    A known reference in the important
brewing range would be much more helpful.   Mixing 32oF and 212oF water is
some proportion is close but some heat is lost in the process.   So the
temperature is not really known.   Calibrated thermocouple probe
thermometers are likely the most accurate, so that's what I end up using as
my "standard."   Luckily brewing is very forgiving and exact temperatures
are not necessary, IMHO.   All we have to be is close enough.....

Dave Houseman



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:58:26 -0600
From: "Michael Hartsock" <mdhxtd at mizzou.edu>
Subject: RE:  Thermometer

First off, I recommend this item from cynmar, 096-01795.  It is a
waterproof, calibrateable, with a digital readout.  I have a similar item
and I'm very happy with it.

What everyone has said about the probe thermometers is on point.  I
think I solved the problem, though.  I took a long piece of electrical
wire shrink wrap and wrapped the wire from the back of the probe on up.
This keeps condensation and liquid out of the business end of the probe.
Of course, the shrink wrap is no food grade, but I couldn't immerse the
wire anyway, so no bother.

Otherwise, I bought some alcohol filled immersion glass thermometers
from www.cynmar.com  No affiliation, but they are an excellent supply for
all things scientific with reasonable prices and they sell small
quantites to individuals.  The rub is that it is not typically professional
lab grade stuff, rather, the equipment and supplies are designed for
school labs.  But hey, I'm not doing pharmacological testing, I'm making
beer!  School grade is fine by me.

Mike
Columbia, MO



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Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:06:32 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Thermometers

I wasn't going to reply to this thread, but I didn't see the response I was
expecting.  I purchased a fairly high accuracy glass/mercury lab
thermometer.  You can tell if it's a good one, if it has a line indicating
it's immersion depth.  Mine also has a ground glass taper, for certain sizes
of flasks. Anyway, it's pretty fragile, so I wouldn't dream of shoving it
into my mash.  

Instead, I calibrate my bimetal thermometers with it by filling my
hydrometer flask with water near my target temperature, and inserting both
thermometers into the bath, making sure the glass thermometer is inserted at
the correct depth.  I also make sure the bimetal thermometer is inserted
into my "calibration" bath to the same depth it will be in my mash tun (it
pokes through a hole in the lid).   

Of course, the hot water in the flask immediately starts cooling off, but
the point is that both should read the same amount.  My bimetal thermometers
have a small hex underneath the dial.  Hold the hex with a wrench, and
gently adjust the dial until it matches the temp on the lab thermometer.
One of the cheap bimetal dial thermometers I got from my LHBS (a real small
one, and only cost a few bucks) even came with a plastic wrench attached to
the plastic protective sleeve that you can use to calibrate it. The wrench
also helps hold the thermometer in my nerdy plastic pocket protector, which
gets a lot of comments at work.  ;^)

In any case, the point is not how accurate the thermometer is, but how
repeatable it is at my target temperature.  I don't care how accurate it is
at freezing or boiling--all I care about is it's accuracy at 150F.  I check
it, and adjust if necessary, during the brew session.  Since my thermometers
are all calibrated from the same mercury thermometer, and I watch the
immersion depth, and the ambient temperature is fairly consistent, I believe
this is quite repeatable.

I actually own a set of HyCal temperature calibration ovens, but this is so
much easier to set up, I'm thinking of selling the ovens on ebay...


Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, WA
[1891.3, 294deg] AR

 


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