HOMEBREW Digest #5000 Mon 24 April 2006

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  Re: What do you think of this? ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  RE: Flour beer? ("Llew J van Rensburg")
  re: Cereal Mash temp question... ("steve.alexander")
  re: Amylase continues working? (Petr Otahal)
  Happy 5000th digest (bob.devine)
  reverse recirculation RIM ("Mike Sharp")
  Fermenator in KC? (phase)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:41:52 +0930 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: What do you think of this? On Sunday, 23 April 2006 at 8:54:27 -0700, Jeremy Bergsman wrote: > http://www.warenhaus-geissler.de/index.php?r=module/info.php&sel=25248 > > Reactions? *very* interesting. I'd buy one of these in a flash if: - it were bigger (only 25 litres) - it were cheaper (<insert Euro symbol here> 1148 is quite a price). Greg - -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:18:02 +0200 From: "Llew J van Rensburg" <llew at luco.co.za> Subject: RE: Flour beer? On Tuesday, 18 April 2006 at 23:59:19 -0500, Gary Smith wrote: > While waltzin' through Costco I passed by their huge > bags of flour & I couldn't help but wonder if anyone's > ever tried (with success) making beer from flour. > > Seems like the addition of some 6 row for enzymes > might do the conversion but how to deal with the > inevitable sludge? Husks? I sure wouldn't run it in my > rims, that would be a nasty mess to clean afterwards. > > I'm not thinking high quality brew but just wondering > what might be possible. Graham Sanders makes his Famed Tropical Flower Wit using about 45% ordinary flour. See his recipe under Recipes on http://new.craftbrewer.org/ Llew Johannesburg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 03:06:50 -0400 From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Cereal Mash temp question... Michael Eyre asks, >If this is so, why do the distilleries (yeah, distilleries, not >breweries... after all, they're the ones using the most corn I can think >of in a mash) do a rolling boil on their corn and grains? If all that's >required is 62-74 degrees, what's up with the boil? Let's not overgeneralize. People distill a lot of fermentable things, and ferment & distill grain products in several distinct ways. Some of the decisions made are clearly tradition, while others are economic. Single malt scotch uses only malted barley - so no cereal issue there. Blended Scotch uses neutral grain alcohol which .... The neutral grain alcohol is made from (mostly) raw grain and large plants use a continuous process which is most efficient. The continuous cereal cooking process (something like pressure cooking) is energetically expensive *but* you can recapture the excess heat and use it elsewhere in the mash & distill steps. You have no such re-use potential for batch processing. [[Neutral grain alcohol is vodka minus the pretentious bottles & huge markup]]. Small grain alc & vodka operations use batch methods. Many Scotch distillers also operate grain distilleries. for blending purposes. The high-end US whiskies (bourbon, tennesee, rye) typically use large fractions of raw cereal (corn and some wheat) and many (most ? all ?) are batch processes. The exact methods used are often trade secret and not covered in much detail in the published literature. Where it is covered the details are somewhat hazy. Regan's 'Book of Bourbon' pp 214... details processing steps where the finely ground corn is boiled for 25 minutes cooled to 156F then wheat & rye added, then cooled to 148F where the malt is added. I suspect that is common for US whiskies, but I also expect there is considerable variation. Glen Raudins (raudins.com) reprints some very old brewing and distilling books. The 1809 'Practical Distiller' discussed many vague procedures most with a corn boil, while the 1875 'The Complete Distiller' discusses the use of corn without boiling. Piggott's, 'Science and Technology of Whiskies' describes 4 cereal mash procedures: continuous cook - sort of a continuous pressure cook system. batch cook - batch processing to 100C or beyond cold cook - reducing the starch to flour and adding to a normal mash. [mostly of academic interest] no-cook - grits and a small amt of malt are stepped to the cereal gelat temp. As discussed a pre-mash degradation of the cereal. As to energy .... the no-cook process saves ~70% in heat energy compared with the batch (boiled) cook processes, but requires a greater expenditure of time, space and energy for grain milling. This no-cook process is used by by some commercial batch distillers. By comparison the continuous hi-pressure cook with heat recapture uses about 50% as much energy as the batch-cook process. Pretty efficient, but there are many other advantages to continuous distilling. The Bourbon batch-cook boil is not energy efficient, but the point is quality and tradition. I imagine that some of the larger operations re-use the boil-heat somehow. There could be a sanitation aspect here too - I have no idea what the "bug demographics" are on corn vs rye & barley. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:21:07 +1000 From: Petr Otahal <petr.otahal at aardvark.net.au> Subject: re: Amylase continues working? steve.alexander wrote: >The short answer is yes ! Some alpha-amylase survives the mash >(even a mashout) and will continue to degrade dextrins slowly, >but more thoroughly than you might expect. > >Piggott et al, in "Whisky Technology" state that all malt wort >will have FG of 0.997 to 0.998. They suggest other final >gravity figures (all less than 1.000) for other grain adjunct >additions. They claim that high FG figures (around 1.0035, or >3.5 degrees) indicate that the raw grain adjunct was insufficiently >cooked (sic cereal mash) Steve, thanks for the reply, looks like I am a little high with my FGs but within the ballpark. I did think that it was the degradation by alpha amylase that was resulting in the lower FGs (lower than beer FGs anyway), glad to hear it confirmed. >BTW, some limited lactobacteria activity in the whisky fermentation >is said to be desirable as this has a positive impact on the final >whisky flavor. It's almost unavoidable anyway. I have heard this and yes it is unavoidable, I have also heard that some whiskey makers allow their fermentations to get over 30C (86F). I'm sure this would encourage high levels of lactic bacteria, and consequently lactic acid and associated esters. Cheers Petr Otahal - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.4.3/316 - Release Date: 17/04/06 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:16:04 +0000 From: bob.devine at att.net Subject: Happy 5000th digest Thanks to our esteeemed janitors, the HBD hits #5000. Bob Devine still in Riverton, UT (soon to be in Tri-Cities, WA area) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:39:21 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: reverse recirculation RIM Jeremy wants reactions on an upwards reverse recirculation RIMS It's an interesting device. I've played with a similar idea, though not nearly as nicely done. I actually got the idea because a 15 gallon kettle I bought came with a huge strainer that fit completely inside with the lid on...so I thought, why not mash in that, then hoist the strainer, spent grains and all, right out. But a fifteen gallon strainer filled with spent grains weighs a lot. It does works great when cooking a ton of spaghetti, though! My thoughts: 1. No vorlauf, but frankly I don't know whether that's a bad thing or not. 2. There doesn't appear to be any sparging going on, but maybe that's a good thing. 3. The water to grist ratio seems really high. But then, there doesn't appear to be any sparging going on, so maybe that's why. I wonder if mash pH needs to be carefully watched. 4. I wonder what the upper limit for the amount of grain is, and how "big" of a beer you can make without cutting down on volume. Seems fairly reasonably priced, considering how nicely executed the design is. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:46:12 -0600 (MDT) From: phase at booyaka.com Subject: Fermenator in KC? Is there anyone in the Kansas City metro area that owns a Fermenator? If so, would you be willing to show it to me? Thanks, Matt Return to table of contents
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