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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Saflager Strains (Bob Tower)
  Re:Saflager Strains (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Starters (Fred L Johnson)
  B-glucans ("A.J deLange")
  RE:   Saflager Strains ("David Houseman")
  "The Perfect Pint" ("Bruce Chrustie")
  RE: Starters ("Anderson, Keith T")
  Starters ("Peed, John")


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Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 00:06:40 -0700
From: Bob Tower <bob at constructotower.com>
Subject: Re: Saflager Strains

Le Man (The brewer Formerly Known As Aleman ) Mashing In Blackpool,  
Lancashire, UK complains of conflicting pitching rates for S-23 yeast  
on the DCL website. Actually, I didn't find a whole lot of specific  
information on the DCL site apart from very general information. If  
you go to the Fermentis site (the actual manufacturer of the yeast)  
you will get much better info. Go to http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/ 
pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf to download the specifications about this yeast.  
Note that the spec sheet is the same for the home brewing area of the  
site as the one for the craft brewing area of the site. It states  
that 80-120 grams should be pitched for every hectoliter of wort when  
fermenting at 12-15 C. This translates to 15-23 grams per 5 gallons.  
Since the packets that are marketed to home brewers are 11.5 grams  
each, 2 packets per 5 gallon batch is the proper pitching rate (not  
4-5 times that). The sheet also outlines that at 100g/hl you will  
achieve 6 million viable yeast cells per milliliter. I regularly use  
S-23 for my California common beers (steam) and get great results. I  
pitch at the 2 packet per 5 gallon rate at 12 C. (54 F.) and have no  
problems with starting or finishing of fermentation. In fact just  
last week I started another batch at 1.051 and within 6 days the  
gravity was down to 1.011 with a fine flavor. I have never noticed  
any sulfur produced under my brewing conditions but sometimes it will  
produce a slight amount of diacetyl in which case a diacetyl rest at  
16 C. (61 F.) for 24-48 hours will remove it. But usually I don't get  
any diacetyl. I've tried S-23 on traditional lagers (Oktoberfest,  
schwarzbier) with great results. The only problem I've had was the  
one time I tried fermenting at 9 C. (48 F.) without increasing the  
pitching rate to 3-5 packets per 5 gallons as recommended. The  
fermentation would not start at all (I believe I gave it 2-3 days).  
Once I raised the temperature to 12 C. the fermentation started up  
and finished out normally.

Bob Tower / Los Angeles, CA


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:28:56 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: Re:Saflager Strains

Hello Matt

we use S23 for Munich Helles and Oktoberfests with excellent results. We 
ferment at the lower end of the temp range. (around 11 deg. Celsius)  
Pitching is done according to the guidelines on the packaging (on the 
500g brick the say around 100g/hl, more if fermented colder we use 
50-60g for 50 liters)
(Wonderful beers with Saaz hops)

Cheers Thomas



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 07:13:02 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Starters

Keith Anderson describes his successful three-step, 6L starter method 
with oxygenation. When he pitches this large, probably very healthy 
starter, he doesn't aerate the wort of the brew he pitches this starter 
into and gets nice fermentations.  Keith also says that he has been 
disappointed with fermentations when he has done a single-step, 3 L 
starter with only a single oxygenation.

I suspect that the single-step, 3L liter starter simply has 
insufficient cells because of the limited oxygen. The reason his 
multi-stepped starter is successful is probably not only that it is 
larger but, more importantly, that the yeast have had a repeated supply 
of oxygen to carry out the cell divisions. If Keith were to provide 
oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of more times--someone else 
can probably provide the ideal times for this-- or simply aerate the 
starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think he would have more 
cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation upon pitching this 
single-step starter. He could do the same thing with a 6 L starter 
(with additional oxygenations or aeration). The only reason "under 
pitching", as it is called, results in poor attenuation is not because 
there aren't enough yeast cells pitched, it's because there isn't 
enough oxygen present at the time of pitching for the relatively few 
yeast cells to grow sufficiently to consume the sugars. Theoretically, 
pitching a single yeast cell can result in complete fermentation of an 
ocean of wort if oxygen is around. Of course, all of this yeast growth 
and oxygen would make for some very bad beer.

In making starters, think oxygen!

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:25:02 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: B-glucans

RE: Clinical studies using barley beta-glucan have shown remarkable effects on
lowering total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol by as much as 20%.

Looks as if we're willing to live with slow runoff we may live longer.

A.J.



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 07:35:14 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE:   Saflager Strains

le Man says: " If I'm buying 4 or 5 sachets of Dry Yeast I
may as well go the whole hog and get a whitelabs phial and make a
starter, is as cheap."

So why not just make a starter from the package of saflager yeast?   I
always make starters, frequently from packages of dry yeast.

David Houseman



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 08:11:13 -0400
From: "Bruce Chrustie" <bruce at nortel.com>
Subject: "The Perfect Pint"

Anyone know if it is still possible to get a copy of this? Anyone have
it?

http://www.realalefestival.com/PP.html

Contact info for RayD?

Bruce,



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:42:41 -0400
From: "Anderson, Keith T" <ktanderson at cbs.com>
Subject: RE: Starters

Fred Wrote

"If Keith were to provide oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of
more times--someone else can probably provide the ideal times for this--
or simply aerate the starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think
he would have more cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation
upon pitching this  single-step starter.  He could do the same thing
with a 6 L starter (with additional oxygenations or aeration)."

Wow, thanks Fred!   Hadn't thought about it that way and maybe I can
save some work making my starter all at once.  I guess I always had the
impression that you have a smaller window of opportunity to aerate.  

At what point would you stop aerating your starter with O2?  At what
point would you stop aerating your brew with O2 (again, I don't if I
have a nice big starter).  I guess I always stuck with a 12hr rule of
thumb that I arbitrarily picked up through no specific source of info.  

I've been tempted to ditch the O2 canister and go with plain air for
practical reasons.  

Keith


- -----Original Message-----
From: Fred L Johnson [mailto:FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 7:13 AM
To: Homebrew Homebrew Digest; Anderson, Keith T
Subject: Re: Starters

Keith Anderson describes his successful three-step, 6L starter method 
with oxygenation. When he pitches this large, probably very healthy 
starter, he doesn't aerate the wort of the brew he pitches this starter 
into and gets nice fermentations.  Keith also says that he has been 
disappointed with fermentations when he has done a single-step, 3 L 
starter with only a single oxygenation.

I suspect that the single-step, 3L liter starter simply has 
insufficient cells because of the limited oxygen. The reason his 
multi-stepped starter is successful is probably not only that it is 
larger but, more importantly, that the yeast have had a repeated supply 
of oxygen to carry out the cell divisions. If Keith were to provide 
oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of more times--someone else 
can probably provide the ideal times for this-- or simply aerate the 
starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think he would have more 
cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation upon pitching this 
single-step starter. He could do the same thing with a 6 L starter 
(with additional oxygenations or aeration). The only reason "under 
pitching", as it is called, results in poor attenuation is not because 
there aren't enough yeast cells pitched, it's because there isn't 
enough oxygen present at the time of pitching for the relatively few 
yeast cells to grow sufficiently to consume the sugars. Theoretically, 
pitching a single yeast cell can result in complete fermentation of an 
ocean of wort if oxygen is around. Of course, all of this yeast growth 
and oxygen would make for some very bad beer.

In making starters, think oxygen!

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:13:54 -0700
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Starters


Eric asks about starters.  If you build the yeast up over a week or so
with several feedings, it will really give you a good amount of yeast
and a fast start.  I've been using a stir plate (which constantly
aerates and agitates) and it makes a lot more yeast a lot quicker.  You
don't need to chill the starter to get the yeast to fall out of
suspension, particularly when using a stir plate - just turn the stir
plate off and wait 12 to 24 hours and most yeast will flocculate almost
completely by that time (this is much more true after constant stirring,
but I don't know why).  You should always oxygenate the wort if
possible, in my opinion.  The simplest, most effective, cleanest starter
system I've ever used is a 3 liter flask on a stir plate with a Williams
foam stopper.  Mix the water and malt (I use 1.5 liters of water and a
cup of malt) in a pot, then pour it into the flask and insert the foam
stopper.  Bring to a very low boil.  In the meantime, iodophor-sanitize
the yeast package, scissors (if cutting a smack pack) and a stir bar.
You can put the stir bar in the flask with the wort if you want, but it
creates nucleation sites that tend to cause boil-overs.  After a 15
minute boil, immerse the flask in cold water until it's at pitching
temperature.  The foam stopper, sanitized by the escaping steam, will
allow air into the flask while filtering out anything bad.  Williams
says so, and it works.  Pitch the yeast, put it on a stir plate and let
'er rip for 24 to 48 hours, until there's very little foam left.  Turn
off, allow to settle, decant, pitch new wort and repeat a few times.  On
brew day, you can decant, pitch new wort, stir it a few hours, then
pitch the whole thing into oxygenated wort for a raging start.  By the
way, my buddy Dennis Collins has convinced me that the 1 1/2" stir bars
work best.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN
Peed's Wicket Alery




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