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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Beer Tools Pro for Linux ("Ryan Flegel")
  Re: accelerating secondary ferment (Mail Box)
  aging, accelerating secondary, Safbrew T-58 (Matt)
  Re: Classic American Cereal Mash - Partial Mash possible? (Jeff Renner)
  aeration while chillin'? (leavitdg)
  Pumpkin Ale ("Brian Dougan")


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Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:20:11 -0600
From: "Ryan Flegel" <rflegel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Beer Tools Pro for Linux

> Eric Schoville <eric at schoville.com> wrote:
> Beertools.com has recently released Beer Tools Pro, which looks
> promising.  Unfortunately they only support Windows and Mac, but they
> would start a Linux beta if they can get 100 people to sign up.  I'm
> posting this in the hope that a couple of people in this forum might be
> interested enough to sign up for a beta.

Well, unfortunately I'm too cheap to buy something like Beer Tools
Pro, but have you ever tried Qbrew
(http://www.usermode.org/code.html)? I'm not sure how it compares, but
a friend and I use it and it works fairly well. And of course, it's
free (open source).

- --
Ryan


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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 04:04:29 -0400
From: Mail Box <mail-box at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: accelerating secondary ferment

Matt wrote [snipped]
> I recently observed a strange phenomenon.  A saison I brewed finished
> primary fermentation pretty fast; the airlock bubbling decreased
> dramatically over a period of a few hours on the second day of
> fermentation.  As expected, the secondary ferment got slower and slower
> over the next few days--but then instead of tapering off to nothing it
> increased noticably to a steady level of one bubble every few seconds,
> and stayed steady for 2 days.  This is where I'm at now.  There is
> quite a bit of settled yeast, but also a whole lot of yeast still in
> suspension.
> 
> I'm not really worried about the beer, but I'm curious as to what kinds
> of things can cause an accelerating secondary ferment?


Matt,

I'd suggest that airlock activity is not an accurate measure of speed of 
fermentation or change of fermentation rate.  The change in airlock 
activity you describe is very subjective, and while I'm not suggesting 
that you are imagining the rate change in airlock activity, one 
possibility you did not mention is a change in barometric pressure.  If 
the barometric pressure had become raised on your second day of 
fermentation and remained high for the next few days, and then dropped 
and remained down, that could cause the airlock rate change you 
observed, while having nothing at all to do with your rate of fermentation.
Use a hydrometer to measure the actual rate of fermentation.


Cheers,
Ken



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Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: aging, accelerating secondary, Safbrew T-58

Fredrik, thanks for that great post, which not only provides a lot more
reason to suspect that fusels do not (significantly) age out with time,
but takes a step toward answering the question of what are the nasty
things that do.

- ---

Alexandre points out that there are a lot of variables that could cause
an accelerating secondary ferment.  Most of these variables are absent,
though, in a ferment like mine that is conducted entirely in one
vessel, with no racking or removal of yeast, no rousing, and a constant
temperature after primary fermentation.  

Based on some recent playing with temperature, I now think this strain
(the Belgian-ish Safbrew T-58) just wants a higher temperature during
secondary fermentation.  This is similar to Dupont, and along the lines
of the comments made by commercial brewers using the
Westmalle/Westvleteren strain (don't try to cool it once it gets hot).

Why these strains tend to slow so much (or to put it another way,
require higher temperatures) at the end is a tough question.  There are
good reasons not to suspect sterol/UFA or nutrient issues.  I guess
it's reasonable to say that some yeasts just do some things slower than
others, and get through it with the traditional (for these yeasts) warm
secondary ferment.

- ---

By the way there is some great information on the dried Fermentis beer
yeasts available under "Publications" at the Fermentis web site:

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/03-Research/40-10_publications.asp?tip=3

Several papers, such as "Practical use of dried yeasts in the brewing
industry," provide detailed (maybe even objective) information about
specific strains that goes way beyond what is normally available. 
There are actual viable cell counts for various strains of dried yeast
(18 B cells/gm for T-58, only 8 B cells/gm for S-04, etc), a comparison
of ester and fusel formation for several strains, etc.  T-58 is listed
there as a poor attenuator--but the details of the test ferment are not
fully clear and I have had it do better than 80%.

Matt






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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:49:48 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Classic American Cereal Mash - Partial Mash possible?

William Menzl wrote from just up the road in Midland, Michigan:

> Our club is going to attempt our first cereal mash roughly  
> following the
> guidelines in Mr. Renners posts back on September 15th, 2001.

Nice to know that I was functioning well enough to post four days  
after 9/11.  I actually was brewing on 9/11, and kept running from  
the garage/brewery to the TV at the other end of the house.   
Amazingly, the beer turned out fine.

> We also
> want to make this a Partial Mash and that is where we have our
> question.  After we mash the polenta with some base malt at 153F  
> for 20
> minutes, and bring it to a boil for 45 to 60 minutes, can we lauter it
> then and continue as with an extract batch or does the whole cereal  
> mash
> have to be mashed with more base malt ("main mash") at that point?  My
> assumption is that the starch conversion is complete in the cereal  
> mash
> but I could be wrong or overlooking other points such as pH issues,
> tannin extraction, conversion, etc.

No, there isn't anywhere complete starch conversion in a cereal  
mash.  While using 30% as much malt as corn might manage to convert  
all the starch in the corn, the starch isn't available for conversion  
until the corn is boiled.  That's the reason for a cereal mash - to  
rupture the starch granules and gelatinize the starch, making it  
accessible to the malt enzymes when you add it to the main mash.   
There is a bit of free starch that gets converted, but it is incidental.

The malt you add to a cereal mash is to prevent the starch that is  
gelatinized from recrystalizing as it cools.  This is called  
retrogradation.  It is very evident if you boil grits or polenta  
without malt - it sets up as it cools.  This is fine when you want to  
slice polenta to fry it, but it makes it hard to incorporate the  
cereal into the main mash, and the retrograded starch is not as  
available to the main mash enzymes.

You could do a mini-mash by adding some cool water and more crushed  
malt.  North American six row and even two row malt is chock full of  
enzymes - I'd guess you'd need only about as much malt as the  
original cereal.  I'd suggest mashing at about 148-150F for good  
fermentablity.

Lately I have been doing my cereal boil in a pressure cooker.  I put  
it in a separate pot that fits into the pressure cooker so there is  
not chance of sticking and scorching.  That way I can do it without  
monitoring it.  It takes less time, too, although I usually just do  
it the same amount of time as normal and just get more of those neat  
maillard reaction products.

P.S. - I have not been nearly as active on HBD and other lists as  
usual due to eldercare responsibilities.  I hope that will soon  
change, but if anyone ever wants to make sure I read a post, please  
just cc me.

Cheers

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 17:05:55 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: aeration while chillin'?

Any of you guys aerate while chillin the brew?  I have an immersion chiller, and
when I get near to the end of the chill, I often move it up and down vigorously
so as to aerate.

I know that hot side aeration is a problem...but at what temperature is that not
an issue?

I usually try to aerate after it is under 100F.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Darrelll



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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 19:17:40 -0400
From: "Brian Dougan" <dougan.brian at gmail.com>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale

The program I run is having our annual Halloween event Saturday which
typically leaves me with pleanty of leftover pumpkins, leaving me to
ponder a pumpkin ale.  Anyone have an all-grain recipe (or an idea for
one) that would make use of some fresh pumpkin with the end result
being a tasty ale to have on tap for the Thanksgiving/ late fall
season?


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