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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Sparkalloid & Carbonation (Randy Ricchi)
  RE: Better Bottles ("D SCHULTZ")
  Homebrewing in the Netherlands (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: homebrewing in the Netherlands ("Weymann, Tina")
  methanol poisoning (jbryant)
  Better Bottle (Rick) Theiner <rickdude@tds.net>
  Home Brewing in The Netherlands? ("Ant Hayes")
  Re: Brewing with HCl ("steve.alexander")
  Amsterdam Beer Sites (tombyrnes)


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:28:38 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Re: Sparkalloid & Carbonation

Fred Johnson used sparkalloid to clarify his beer, then added some of 
the lees to each bottle to insure carbonation.

My guess is you did not need to add any of the lees to your bottles to 
get adequate carbonation. Even though the beer was crystal clear there 
would still be some yeast cells in it to carbonate your bottles. I never 
used sparkolloid, but years ago I did experiment with using polyclar and 
bentonite and I got crystal clear beer which carbonated with no problems 
just by adding priming sugar at bottling.

If you have a designated fridge for your beer, a great way to get 
crystal clear beer is to just store it for a week or two at 29 or 30 
degrees F.
George Fix recommended this in one of his books as a way to get rid of 
chill haze, and he was right. Once you bring the beer back up to serving 
temps (for me, mid to upper 40's), the beer is clear as a bell.


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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 07:32:11 -0800
From: "D SCHULTZ" <pnwbrewer at msn.com>
Subject: RE: Better Bottles

Dave commented on the Better Bottle PET carboys.  While the PET plastic used 
in the BB carboys is slightly better than the polycarbonate (PC) plastic 
used in typical plastic carboys with respect to oxygen permeation, there 
isn't enough difference to justify the extra cost.

PC does not impart flavors or they wouldn't use it for water so there's no 
difference there. Both PET and PC carboys are relatively thin wall and I 
would not recommend either for long term storage of beer. Use for 
fermentation is quite okay since the yeast are active and will scavage any 
available O2.  Plus, some will get scrubbed out by the generation of CO2 
during fermentation.

The real question is how long is okay for storage of beer after 
fermentation. There's no exact answer here but most homebrewers report than 
up to 60 to 90 days works well for them and I tend to agree. I have always 
prefered the storage ease of a Corny so I've never gone beyond about 90 
days.

A better solution to either PC or PET carboys is the old standby: plastic 
buckets. HDPE has better O2 permeation than PC or PET and bucket walls are 
at least two to four times thicker. So if you think the BB carboys are a 
good buy at $25 (or whatever they cost), try a bucket and then enjoy the 
extra features like cleanability, durability and ease of use. The only 
negative I see with plastic buckets is that you can't watch the fermentation 
happen. I've seen that often enough that I don't miss that any more.

When you consider how cheap a Corny is, it's hard to justify using a bucket 
or carboy even if you don't have a CO2 system to push the beer in the Corny 
aorund.

I have a O2 permeation chart for pastics at 
http://www.oregonbrewcrew.com/schultz/o2perm.jpg.

 -Dan Schultz
pnwbrewer at msn.com




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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:02:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Homebrewing in the Netherlands

In the last HBD, Bob Tower asks about homebrewing in 
the Netherlands.  Bob, you can start at this site:

http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/

It's mostly in Dutch (better brush up!), but also has
links to homebrew clubs and lots of other homebrewing
info for that country, as well as a few good articles 
(if you can read Dutch).

Calvin Perilloux



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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:15:03 -0500
From: "Weymann, Tina" <TWeymann at hselaw.com>
Subject: Re: homebrewing in the Netherlands

Bob Tower will be spending 4 months in Holland and wants to tap into the
HB scene there.  You lucky guy!  The Dutch are indeed avid homebrewers,
and there are a number of clubs throughout the country, many of which
have a great web presence.  Check out http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl for a
list of clubs.  One site that I like to visit is
http://www.deltabrouwers.nl/ (includes a very nice recipe collection).
You may also want to post a note on the BBB's HB message board
(http://ww2.babblebelt.com).  Utrecht, BTW, is known as a great beer
festival city.  Goed geluk ("good luck")!!

Tina Weymann
Rochester, NY



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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:21:38 -0500
From: <jbryant at wrsystems.com>
Subject: methanol poisoning

I was listening to Graham Sanders' podcast from November 5th and he had
a 
story on a rash of deaths by methanol poisoning in Russia.  Something
like 
40,000 people have been poisoned in the last year!  But, the 
vodka wasn't contaminated by bad manufacturing processes; it was spiked
with 
industrial chemicals!  Apparently some nefarious characters are making a

quick ruble by cutting vodka with antifreeze.  Here is the link: 
radio.craftbrew.org.  Also, I just noticed that he has an update to the 
story on the latest podcast.  
 
Long pause.

I tried sending this yesterday to no avail.  But, in the meantime I had
a
chance to listen to the latest podcast and hear the update on the
poisonings in Russia.  Graham heard the statistic incorrectly, though.
It's
42,000 poisoning cases not 42,000 dead.  I think 300 have died.
The tragedy is that the government is going to try to do something by
increasing taxes on liquor and industrial chemicals.  They hope to  make
the
use of industrial chemicals uneconomical with the tax.  But  the tax on
liquor will only increase the demand for cheap booze and  exacerbate the
problem.  Reputable companies making safe liquor will  be hurt, while
the
shysters will stand to make more money.  The solution  is deregulation
coupled with education.  People need to know the risks  of drinking
no-name
booze and the good stuff shouldn't be priced  artificially higher with
taxes.



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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:34:48 -0600
From: Eric (Rick) Theiner <rickdude at tds.net>
Subject: Better Bottle

Although there's probably no need, I'm going to jump on the 
bandwagon in recommending the Better Bottle (as mentioned 
before, they're at http://www.better-bottle.com ).

I have broken 3 carboys since starting brewing in 1992. The 
first two times I lost nothing more than sanitizing 
solution (first time it slipped out of my hands while 
balanced on a sink, second time it slipped while I was 
transporting it), but the last time I lost 5 gallons of a 
very promising IPA and nearly lost a finger as well. The 
cut was significantly deep, but I was lucky to have 
received it in a place that did not house either major 
blood vessels or tendons.

It was that last time that made a believer out of me, not 
only because of the injury, but because I was HOLDING THE 
CARBOY PROPERLY-- supporting the bottom and using the neck 
to stabilize it. I'm still not sure what happened, but the 
glass separated about an inch above the shoulder of the 
carboy.

I cannot recall the name of the guy, but I spoke at length 
with one of the guys at Better Bottle and he was absolutely 
passionate about getting people to stop using glass. The 
Better Bottle's primary market is actually high purity 
water for laboratory applications and the stories that he 
told me about accidents in labs and warehouses with glass 
carboys are pretty harrowing. (The worst one-- although 
this is unlikely to occur in our area, a warehouse worker 
was essentially beheaded by a carboy stored on an overhead 
rack while he was trying to retrieve it.)

Anyway, I love my Better Bottles, especially the side port 
option that allows you to quickly hook a hose up to the 
bottle and drain it to keg, rack, or bottle. Even without 
the breakage issue, that option alone is worth the change 
IMHO. The only complaint is that as they are not rigid, 
there is a pressure change when moving them that can lead 
to sucking some airlock fluid into your fermenter. 

(Not associated in any way, blah blah blah.)

Rick Theiner




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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:42:43 -0000
From: "Ant Hayes" <anthayes at btinternet.com>
Subject: Home Brewing in The Netherlands?

Bob Tower wrote, "I was wondering if any of you know of any Dutch home
brewers groups or organizations"

Check out http://www.roerstok.nl/

Also worth considering is http://www.craftbrewing.org.uk/ (The distance from
Hoorn to London is less than half that from LA to Boulder!)

Cheers

Ant Hayes
Winchester, England



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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:58:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Brewing with HCl

I hope SteveD doesn't mind my posting a reply to his email, but I think
this is important for health/safety considerations.

> The HCl I have is ultra pure stuff used for EPA
> water analyses.

"Ultrapure" is a term used to describe reagents used in biological
experiment.  ACS or analytic grade is what is commonly used chemical
analysis.  I wouldn't use ACS reagents in any food or beverage.
I don't have the experience to know what might appear in ACS grade HCl,
but metals and esp heavy metals come to mind.  Perhaps the chemical mfgr's
documentation might assuage my concerns but .... not my field.


> I suspect that more folks don't use it for brewing
> because other alternatives like lactic acid are more readily available.

IMO lactic leaves a weird minor flavor .. not appreciated except in a
few styles.  Phosphoric seems 'cleaner' and plentiful (used in soda pop).
I think the reason HCl is not widely used in brewing is that it's simply
more difficult to find food grade HCl (and more dangerous in concentrated
form).  Aside from that, HCl is ideal for brewing.

> On another subject, how many Campden tablets would you recommend I add
> to the mash for a 20 pound grain bill?  Do you suppose most of the SO2
> is driven off during the boil?

I'd base the campden qty on final volume.   For a 20lb grist bill you might
be making 15gal of low gravity brew and for that I'd use 7 or 8
campdens.   If OTOH you are using 20lb to make 5gal of 1st-wort barleywine
then more like 2.5 campdens.  My concern is that 1/2 campden per gallon
produces roughly 33ppm (as SO2) and much of this is lost (see below)
before the wort-chill.  If you want to be more conservative, 25ppm (abt 2
campden's per  5gal of final beer) is undoubtedly safe and sane.  If you
added 8 campdens to the 20lb grist mash for 5gal of barleywine you're
starting with a potential over 100ppm of SO2, and you'll probably end
up with enough sulfite to cause a flavor problem.

Actually there is very little SO2 from campdens in wort. Just like
<carbonic, bi-carbonate, carbonate> in water or beer there are
three species of sulphoxides resulting from metabisulfite.  At very low
pH (pH<1.77) most is SO2 gas dissolved in the water/wort. From pH=1.77 to
pH=7.2, most is in the form of bisulfite ions (H.SO3-) and above pH=7.2
most is sulfite (SO3--).  So in the mash or even in finished beer most is
bisulfite with just a little SO2 and a little sulfite.  Each of the three
species has somewhat different role in the anti-oxidant story.

The SO2 (just another gas in solution), is lost to the atmosphere (and
mostly replaced by equilibrium shifts).  SO2 prevents certain enzymatic
oxidation of phenolics.  SO2 in combination with peroxides can reverse some
phenolic oxidation. Sulfite is a potent but slow acting anti-oxidant
capable of binding with free O2.  The bisulfate which represents ~98% of
all species in the wort binds weakly with aldehydes (including
aldose-sugars) and other carbonyls and has an effect of preventing
carbonyl formation (both staling compounds as well as some Maillard
products).

Some of these are lost to the atmosphere as SO2 but far more is oxidized
into sulfate ions (SO4--) [[same ion as the massive sulfate conc in
Burton ales]].

 -S




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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:02:32 -0600 (CST)
From: <tombyrnes at verizon.net>
Subject: Amsterdam Beer Sites

 Bob asked about brewing sites in Amsterdam,
 I am so jealous check out the http://www.thebda.com/, 
it is a beer site that reviews beer related issues 
in Amsterdam between the bars and the discussion board
 you should be able to get some information.
 Happy brewing Tom, Norfolk, VA



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