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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  re: saving yeast ("steve.alexander")
  5%abv that did not carbonate.... (leavitdg)
  pH and temp ("Peed, John")
  What I'd been doing was to burn them to a VideoCD or, more recently, to DVD. ("Camp")
  Test ("Donald Coleman")
  RE: Mash PH at room temp or mash Temp ("Brian Lundeen")


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Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:11:53 -0500
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: saving yeast

Paul Waters asks about saving yeast but drops
the other shoe late in the post ...

<<
The way I envision the use of the yeast cake is I
would take a sanitized spoonful and make a starter
culture from that for the next batch.
/>>

No ! Not a good idea at all !  Don't do that.

There are two divergent goals here.  One is to save
a yeast cake so that you can reuse a significant
yeast population on the very next brew.  The other is
to save a culture for longer term storage - months or
years.

For cake re-use we can can use the methods of pulling
the cake, adding a bit of sterile wort and storing,
slow fermenting in a fridge to hold for a few weeks
to perhaps a couple months.

For longer term storage, even 4 months, the scale
of infection control measures increases.  I would
advise strongly against using a yeast cake unless you
will plate-out the culture.

If you are seeking really long term storage, then there
is a nice little pamphlet by ??Leinstad?? which covers
plating out and slant creation.   Slants should be
created from a clean source (a plate or a wyeast pack
or a whitelab tube) and never from a used yeast cake.
Slants should be recultured at ~6 month intervals, BUT
I've brought back slants of lager yeast at 5 years of 
age with no problem (not always the case).

For intermediate term use 6-8 months max , I'd advise
a different method.  When you make the first starter 
from a wyeast pack or a Whitelabs tube (you SHOULD
make a starter for a lager from a WL tube), then when
the starter reaches abt 1L and is rapidly fermenting 
you can mix & pour some of the starter into small
sterile sealable vessel (sterilized WL tubes are great)
and place these in a fridge (within a ziplock). As
these slowly ferment you will need to relieve CO2 
pressure.

The WL-type vessels will hold for at least 6 months
(I've used several at over 1yr) and seem to provide
at least as good a start as a std Wyeast pack, and 
as much as an XL pack.
- --

FWIW, I used to keep ~30 cultures on slants and
now I have this down to only 4 impossible to find
ones.  Keeping slants and reculturing regularly is a
fair bit of work and if Wyeast and WhiteLabs with my
local HB shop are willing to bear that burden for $5
a pack then I am willing to let them do this hard work.

OTOH If I plan to use WY1968 for 3 or 4 ales between
Spring & Fall then the WL-tube storage method works
very well.
- --

A few points on reusing full yeast cakes.  Yes you must
sanitize the vessels & funnels & such and also the
carboy neck & lip.   Vodka is probably fine, but so is
iodophor based sanitizers at proper concentration.
Shake, swirl pour - like a 5gal bottle of hefe'.

Don't worry abt dry gunk inside the fermenter. If you
want a clean yeast cake your biggest advantage is if
you decant/drop the beer between fermenters at 24-72
hrs after pitching - during active fermentation. This 
removes trub and dead yeast and the resulting cake is
remarkably clean.
 
Dormant anaerobic yeast will rapidly use their storage
carbs and squalene to make sterol as soon as they are
exposed to any air/oxygen. Once this has happened their
storage life is compromised. I don't know of any way
to transfer a yeast cake w/o introducing air, so expect
your saved yeast to have compromised storage life. Once
compromised I think 1 week in very cold conditions
(fridge to +2C) is pretty safe and 2 weeks is getting
dicey.

If you want to re-establish better health for your
dormant yeast cake after O2 exposure you can add
some  fermentable carbos, and store this cold, but
limit this addition to ~2P, and you MUST relieve any
carbonation CO2 pressure.

 -S






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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:17:32 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: 5%abv that did not carbonate....

jbryant at wrsystems.com:

 you say that you were very careful so as to not siphon any of the trub..well, I
believe that you may have carbonated your brew had you siponed up just a small
bit of it.  Jeff Renner, years ago, suggested this on the HbD, and when I
transfer, I usually make sure to get just a bit of the bottom of the fermenter,
in that it has some yeast as well.  I bet if you do this to your next one it
will carbonate, and save you the trouble of re-opening and such.

Happy Brewing!
Darrell

    Plattsburgh,NY 44 41 58 N Latitude
                   73 27 12 W Longitude

 [544.9 miles, 68.9]Apparent Rennerian




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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:41:29 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: pH and temp


Re pH, John Palmer flatly states in his book How to Brew that mash pH at
room temperature should be between 5.4 and 5.8

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN



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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:11:36 -0500
From: "Camp" <pzfxy at northwest-alarm.com>
Subject: What I'd been doing was to burn them to a VideoCD or, more recently, to DVD.

But the accusation of British perfectionism does bother me.
"But there was very thick smoke, and people got poisoned by smoke in
their sleep.
What are your presidential qualities?

RR

Trade Date : 12 Dec 2006
Name : Chef Selections
Ticker : CFSC.PK
Current Price : $0.1
5 Day Target : $1
Expectations : 100-300%

RR

MoreWeekend Project: Make Podcast: Woodblock Prints, Aluminum Reliefs,
and Write with Light The time to send out cards for the holidays is
here.
Why have Nintendo done this? FeedDemon can usually handle feeds that
have errors in them, but in some cases errors in the feed may cause it
to be incorrectly displayed by FeedDemon.
Yes, it is possible to use Mozilla inside FeedDemon, although this is an
unsupported feature.
Well what is unique about these grammars is that they are designed from
the start to be very robust in terms of dealing with code that is
currently under development. Occasionally there are complaints of, "You
wouldn't say things like that about your own country," which is odd, as
British domestic journalism is pretty ruthless in exposing flaws and
faults.
If you re-install FeedDemon many times, or install it on several
different systems, you may reach your activation limit.
clearance to diabetics, people with weakened hearts or kidneys, and
those with plaque blockages in three or more coronary arteries who hope
the stenting will allow them to avoid bypass surgery.
Since Danny is due to be back in the office tomorrow, I'm anxious to
hear if he's been able to poke any more holes in the idea. I'm sure
you'll be able to read about it from either one or both of us within the
next couple of weeks. Why have Nintendo done this? STMs are the
nanoscientist's premiere tool for "seeing" individual atoms.
A tie-up between Gaz de France and Suez was first proposed at the start
of this year.
The Oracle at Delphi: One namespace to rule them all. I'd rather not
burn a DVD just to be able to watch the show.
Doyle, a frequent consultant with the F. Meanwhile, third place went to
Brazilian collective Sweet Cherry Fury for their song Cold Blonde Body.
Men carrying trays of sticky peanut sweets move lithely among the crowd
packing the closed-off Istanbul dual carriageway. All of this is hosted
as an Internet Explorer add-on. The feed validator will then report any
problems in the RSS feed.
The four-day visit was seen as an attempt to repair the damage his
comments on Islam in September caused across the Muslim world.
Evidently, barometers have been saved from this ruling, as have
museum-piece thermometers. Its primary purpose is to allow multiple
hosts on the same network segment to share an IP address. And after
their identification, they will be dishonourably discharged from the
force. clearance to diabetics, people with weakened hearts or kidneys,
and those with plaque blockages in three or more coronary arteries who
hope the stenting will allow them to avoid bypass surgery.
You can do this through FeedDemon by right clicking on the channel and
choosing Channel Properties, then switching to the "Advanced" tab and
clicking the "Validate newsfeed" button. According to the BBC's Nick
Thorpe in Budapest, the Hungarian team Puskas led ignited a global
revolution in the way football was played.
So I bought this really cool little set-top device called the MediaMVP.
To request an email containing your serial number, please stop by our
lost serial number page. How do I get it sent to me again? By default,
FeedDemon's tabbed browser intercepts new browser windows and displays
them in a separate tab. And this is not without its dangers. You know me
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LED Triklits video -.
But the panelists pointed out Friday that no one knows the optimal
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 - "I've got a new presentation on how scanning tunneling microscopes
work.
The Oracle at Delphi: Mis-attribution.
Turkey has offered to open a major port to traffic from Cyprus. However
there were suggestions that staff had been overcome so rapidly by smoke
that they had been incapable of taking action.
At present, the venture off Russia's Pacific coast is run by Anglo-Dutch
Shell and two Japanese oil firms.
Its primary purpose is to allow multiple hosts on the same network
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What if a company were to "commission" groups of individuals to start
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Turkish flags, one in each hand, while managing to bounce up and down in
time to Turkish pop music. Spain had opposed the application that must
now be ratified by the Uefa congress in January.



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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:06:49 -0600
From: "Donald Coleman" <dcole89 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Test

testing



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Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:54:14 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net>
Subject: RE: Mash PH at room temp or mash Temp

> 
> Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:09:52 -0600
> From: "dohmfamily" <dohmfamily at juno.com>
> Subject: Mash PH at room temp or mash Temp
> 
> When taking mash PH readings 5.3 to 5.6 is said to be best PH 
> for mash . But no one seems to say if this reading is at mash 
> temp of 150 or room temp of 70. There would be .3 difference 
> in PH from 150 to 70 degrees. I normally cool sample to 70 
> degrees and take reading. If between 5.3 and 5.6 I say good 
> enough. Is this the correct way to take readings or should I 
> be compensating for temp difference by deducting .3PH from my 
> room temperature reading.

The recognized "ideal" range is for the pH at mash temps and you do have to
deduct .35 from a room temp reading to see what the mash temp pH really is.
If you are hitting that range with your cooled sample readings, that means
you are actually getting a working pH around 5-5.3. The nice thing is, it
doesn't really matter. That's why people have been making good beers for a
long time from mashes that are below the ideal range. 

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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