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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Bill Tobler & HERMS ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  One other thing that's going to kill HBD.... ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  Please comment on 'mash schedule' feature of brewing software (Bill Velek)
  RE: To HERMS or not to HERMS (Robert)
  Hacking an Optical Mouse for Liquid Level Measurement (Kevin Eggemeyer)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 00:18:47 -0600
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: Bill Tobler & HERMS

What Bill doesn't say is that he makes award winning beer with his  
system, and that's an endorsement on its own!  I've judged Bill's  
beers and can certainly speak to his quality.  Can you do the same?  
YMMV.  But Bill does know what he's talking about!
My .02

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Was-was-was-was-was-was-Waz
Former Secondary Fermenter
Former Competition Coordinator
Former Brewsletter Editor (X3)
Former Dixie Cup Coordinator
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com





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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 00:26:59 -0600
From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <bdb2 at bdb2.com>
Subject: One other thing that's going to kill HBD....

(Oh wait.. I sent this without doing the conversion and it got  
rejected... silly me....) ;-P
- ---
Is the fact it rejects MIME encoded e-mails.  Time for HBD to catch  
up to the modern world.  I can post to my club e-mail list (volunteer  
moderated) without fear of rejection and same goes for AHA Tech- 
Talk.  Last conversation I heard regarding HBD among the AHA folk was  
that it's dying a slow death... well, getting posts rejected  
regularly only speeds that process.  I realize this is a volunteer  
effort, but technical currency is an essential element to being  
relevant.

 -BDB2

Bev D. Blackwood II
Was-was-was-was-was-was-Waz
Former Secondary Fermenter
Former Competition Coordinator
Former Brewsletter Editor (X3)
Former Dixie Cup Coordinator
The Foam Rangers
http://www.foamrangers.com





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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:40:46 -0600
From: Bill Velek <billvelek at alltel.net>
Subject: Please comment on 'mash schedule' feature of brewing software

Last October I purchased BeerToolsPro during it's initial release, but I 
have never used any other brewing software before so I didn't know what 
to expect.

QUESTION:  Does the 'mash schedule' in other programs have any effect 
upon what the program calculates as far as showing any impact whatsoever 
on attenuation, mouthfeel, and that sort of thing?  If I mash the exact 
same recipe under two dramatically different schedules, I would expect 
to see some sort of difference reflected in the resulting beer; e.g., if 
I mash at 135F for a FULL hour, I would expect the beer to be more 
attenuated and therefore dryer, with less mouthfeel, and more alcoholic 
in flavor, whereas if I mash the same grist at 160F for maybe HALF an 
hour, I would expect more unfermentable dextrines resulting in lower 
attenuation, more mouthfeel, and less alcohol.  While BeerToolPros will 
allow a user to customize a mash schedule and, in the process, calculate 
the amount and temperature of water to be added at each step, it does 
not show ANY difference at all in the effects on beer style; 
furthermore, it also has an 'Analysis' feature which supposedly reports 
the grams and calories of alcohol, carbs, and protein per serving ... 
but that appears to be completely unaffected by the mash schedule, too, 
which tells me that it is not accurate but rather that it just 
approximates the nutritional value based on some unknown 'average'.  
This has been my primary disappointment with BTP, but perhaps I have 
expected too much; however, the reason I expected all of this to work is 
some of the promotional language they use, such as: "BeerTools Pro is a 
software package for formulating beer recipes, FOR DESIGNING MASH 
SCHEDULES and for calculating other factors when brewing beer. It is 
simple enough for the beginner yet POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR THE PROFESSIONAL" 
(capitals are my emphasis).  I don't know; maybe even 'professional' 
brewing software doesn't do what I was thinking this would do:  predict 
how alterations to my mash schedule will affect my beer.

So how does ProMash, BeerSmith, StrangeBrew, and any other brewing 
program out there react to changes in the mash schedule; do they adjust 
any calculations or give any indication at all?

If it will help to discuss the matter, BeerToolsPro permits a user to 
set any factor in the mash -- thickness, strike temperature, time for 
each stage, and I guess just about as many steps as you want; it also 
takes into consideration the thermal mass and heat transfer rate of your 
equipment based on calibration steps the user performs.

Other than my disappointment re the above, I am extremely pleased with 
BTP; I have no affiliation with the program or developers whatsoever.

Thanks for any replies.

Cheers.

Bill Velek



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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:59:29 -0800
From: Robert <home_brew at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: To HERMS or not to HERMS

Bill,

In your response to Mike you stated that you attached a PDF file with 
drawings, pictures and arrows of your system. Maybe it is a property or 
function of the list but I did not see an attachment.  Could you email 
the PDF file to me.  I am in the process of converting from extract to 
all grain brewing and am building a HERMS system using 3 half-barrel 
kegs, which will all be at the same elevation, similar to the Beer, Beer 
and More Beer B3-2100 brew sculpture.  I have 2 Ranco temperature 
controllers and 2 Marsh mag drive pumps.  My plan is to circulate water 
from the HLT through a stainless plate heat exchanger with one pump and 
wort from the mash/lauter tun with the other pump. The plate heat 
exchanger will also be used as a wort cooler.  Heat source will be 
propane burners with one of the temperature controllers controlling a 
gas solenoid like the Beer, Beer and More Beer Digital Hot Liqour 
option.  Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Robert


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Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 20:38:09 -0800
From: Kevin Eggemeyer <keggemeyer at charter.net>
Subject: Hacking an Optical Mouse for Liquid Level Measurement

A question for the collective:  Has anyone thought of or used a hacked 
optical mouse to measure liquid level in a tank?

My idea is this... For my HLT, I would like to be able to measure the liquor 
level to within a reasonable degree of accuracy (say 0.1 gallon?) and have 
the controller (in my case a Javelin Stamp connected to a PC) open or 
close a solenoid valve to control the flow and give an on screen 
representation of the tank's level.  The mechanical parts would include 
a 4 inch stainless float connected to a stem (a piece of stainless flat bar, or 
aluminum for weight considerations) that could also be used by an 'optical 
human' to measure the level.  The stem's travel is controlled at two points, 
one at the tank lid and one above the tank lid to keep its travel vertical.
 
The optical mouse parts sit well above the lid of the tank to avoid issues with
steam (approx 6 inches above) and against the stem (which could be 
mistreated with a wire brush to add optical data marks).  The mouse reads
the travel of the float and communicates it to the PC.

To 'zero' the system, the float is pulled against the lid of the tank and 
both mouse buttons are pushed, signaling the PC to clear the level reading 
and begin measuring from the zero point (or alternatively the measurement 
could be zeroed when the tank is empty and the float is against the bottom 
of the tank).  As the float is lowered and raised, the PC keeps track of the 
position in much the same way it positions the pointer on the computer 
screen.  This would, of course, require hacking the mouse driver software 
so that it is not recognized as the mouse.

To make it even more complex...

 - I would use a wireless mouse (hacked to eliminate the battery charger).

 - I already have the temperature of the HLT to use for level correction 
due to expansion.  Simple math for the PC, right?

 - If this works, I would like additional setups, one for the HLT, one for 
the grant, one for the boil kettle.  (Sticking with Bill Tobler's comment, 
"For me, I would not have a HERMS unless I could automate it completely.")


Any thoughts or ideas on how this might be done?  Any collaborators 
out there?

Kevin Eggemeyer
O'Fallon, MO



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