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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  liquid yeast (Kim Mills)
  Xmas Beer Recipe (John Bates)
  malting? (Chip Hitchcock)
  Return of the Green Bubbles (Martin A. Lodahl)
  distilled power drinks (florianb)
  Oxidation (John Cotterill)
  Boston homebrew and brewpubs (Tony Rossini)
  HBD #506 (Dave Sheehy)
  Cherries in the Snow ("Schoon,Timothy G")
  Germany/Denmark (summary to the net) (Fred Condo, sysop)
  Re:Kegs (hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew)
  re: Germany (synchro!chuck)
  ICEWINE (Bill Crick)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 09:25:25 -0400
From: kim%nova.npac.syr.edu at hplb.hpl.hp.com (Kim Mills)
Subject: liquid yeast

I've been brewing for some time but am a complete beginner in using
liquid yeast cultures.  I'm looking for advice on
  sources of yeast
  starting and handling the cultures
  culturing for repeated use

In my single experience with a liquid yeast culture, it took forever to
get it started and immediately produced off-aromas.  I took a chance and
pitched it anyway.  A few weeks later I had to pitch 5 gallons, a setback
because it was an all grain brew.

Thanks, Kim



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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 09:17:13 MDT
From: bates%palmen.Colorado.EDU at hplb.hpl.hp.com (John Bates)
Subject: Xmas Beer Recipe

Following up on my entry in Digest #517, Phil sez that his speciality beer
recipe is still to be entered in competition and he does not want the 
recipe posted til after (i.e., after about Nov 15).  He sez that it only
needs 3-4 weeks, so it should be in fine shape by Xmas if I post it about then.

I just tried one of my ginger beers brewed following CP's recipe in TCJHB.
Although only in the bottle a week, it was really tasty.  It will make a
nice spicy beer by Xmas.  Here's the recipe,

	3.3 lbs Northwestern light ME
	2 lbs DME
	2 lbs wildflower honey
	2 oz Hertsburger (Spelling?) boiling
	1/2 oz Goldings finishing
	2 oz fresh grated ginger boiling
	1 oz fresh grated ginger finishing
	2 paks M + F ale yeast started

Start yeast in about 90F watered down wort.  Boil malt extract, honey, hops, and
ginger about 1 hr.  Strain, then add finishing hops and ginger.  Cool rapidly in
tub, pitch yeast already started.  SG=49, FG=14 after 2 weeks.  Prime and
bottle.  This is a quite light beer with a nice ginger aroma and flavor.
Regards, John Bates

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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 10:15:04 EDT
From: cjh%vallance.eng.ileaf.com at hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: malting?

> From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
>	  The fact that malting is letting the grain sprout means that every
> barley farmer is doing it goes right along with the stupidity of the whole
> thing.

I think malting is defined as letting grain sprout under controlled conditions,
e.g. you can collect it after it has sprouted. I don't think that planting
and watering seeds fits the definition....

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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 8:55:24 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Return of the Green Bubbles

In HOMEBREW Digest #517, James Hensley's beer has been attacked:

> I just brewed a batch of brown ale ...
>		...  My worries started when I looked inside the
> fermenter and saw a couple of HUGE bubbles ...
> as well as several patches of bluish-green mould (akin to that on bread).
>	... I was surprised to see that it seemed something killed off the
> mould	...	 Should I toss this batch?

James, I'm the last person to recommend dumping a batch, but the
prognosis is not good.  This sounds EXACTLY like what happened to a
batch of Porter brewed by a friend of mine last summer:  a sort of bluish-
green "skin" over the surface, patches of what looked like bread
mold floating here and there, and a few gigantic bubbles that lasted
for days.  Those who attended last Saturday night's Sactobeerfest
(where a fine time was most definitely had by all [thanks again,
Robert, for making it happen!]) can attest that Dave can brew, so
this was something of an abberation.  In time, the ferment took
on a more normal appearance, and he bottled.  The flavor was
astonishing!  It had an incredible note of mildew, that seemed
stronger with every sip.  I could still taste the stuff days later. 
Dave's going to try out the rest of the batch on the slugs in his garden.

Nevertheless, I drank a bottle of it and survived, and Dave, who
drank several bottles, seems still to be among us.  Your apparently
infected beer will be, er, memorable, but probably not lethal.

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 15 Oct 90 10:06:02 PDT (Mon)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: distilled power drinks


In yesterday's HBD, Geoffrey Sherwood mentioned that the stated reason
Fed's forbid distillation of fermented beverages might include the
danger of producing methanol along with ethanol.  If in fact the Fed's
state that, it would be wierd, indeed.  How, in the name of science,
can methanol be produced from the distillation of ethanol-containing
fermented beverages?

I grew up in the Ozark mountain foothills of Eastern Oklahoma and Western
Arkansas.  I had a friend who had a friend who had an acquaintance who
knew where to get moonshine.  I never bought any, but I tasted some once.
It was smooth, tasty, and powerful--like fine Vodka.  It just now occurred
to me that since it's possible to brew great beer at home, it should be
possible to produce great distilled liquor at home.  Too bad it is illegal.

I once heard of a European custom for making brandy.  Wine is placed in a
large boiling pot.  A soup bowl, made of wood, is floated in the center of the
pot.  The lid to the pot is inverted, and placed on top of the pot.  Ice
is put on top of the inverted lid.  The wine is then heated.  As the distillate
rises, it condenses on the cool pot lid, runs down to the bottom of the
lid, and drips into the bowl.  The bowl is emptied at regular intervals which
balance between overfilling and losing the head of distillate by opening
the kettle.  I've never tried this since I don't like wine or brandy.  But
I thought of doing it with, say, a couple of gallons of cider.  It should
be possible to rig up some sort of cage to prevent the bowl from moving
around, and to force it to be at the center of the pot.  Maybe we could
hear from someone who has tried this.

Florian


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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 13:07:44 PDT
From: John Cotterill <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Oxidation
Full-Name: John Cotterill


I have read numerous articles that mention the ill effects of beer oxidation 
due to air within carboys, transfer tubes, and bottles.  Does anyone
have any idea how much this oxidation affects the taste of the beer?
If the effects are noticable, how can oxidation be reduced, especially due
to air in the bottling process?

Thanks, John.
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp

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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 12:25:06 EDT
From: rossini%biostat at endor.harvard.edu (Tony Rossini)
Subject: Boston homebrew and brewpubs


Thanks to all for replies about Boston.  If anyone would like a summary,
drop me a line and I'll email them to you (it contains comments about boston
homebrew suppliers and brewpubs (both of them).  I'd rather not post what
must be redundant material to most of you...

 -tony
(rossini at biostat.harvard.edu)


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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 14:51:30 PDT
From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: HBD #506


Could someone send me a copy of HBD #506? I didn't get one for some reason
and it's not in the archive at netlib either.

Thanx,

Dave Sheehy
dbs at hprnd.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 16:59:01 cst
From: "Schoon,Timothy G" <SCHOON%GRIN1.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Cherries in the Snow

We are thinking of making "Cherries in the Snow" according to Pappazian's
book.  It says it takes years to age appropriately.  Do you realy have to
wait that long before it is good?  Is there anything you can do to shorten
the aging time?

tim and jim

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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 13:44:57 PDT
From: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com (Fred Condo, sysop)
Subject: Germany/Denmark (summary to the net)

A while back, I asked for information on Germany. I received two
replies, which I've excerpted below. Of course, I hugely enjoyed Norm
Hardy's recent series of postings on his trip to Germany. 

Again, if any HBD reader is going to be in or around Germany during
December, I'd like to hear from you! 


cjh at vallance.eng.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock) wrote, in part:

  - If you're going to Switzerland, there's a local brew in Luzern
(Pony? my travel notes are elsewhere at the moment)---OK standard and a
good special dark (not cheap, but then in Switzerland nothing is). 
 
 In Copenhagen 
 
 - Be sure to do the Carlsberg tour; if you're lucky, the samples will
include a new brew which is as close as they can get to what was brewed
100 years ago (all barley, a bit sweet, not as alcoholic). Maybe you
can get them to explain how they keep outdoor primary fermenters at the
right temperature (it was close to 80 at the end of August, and the
winters are \cold/)---sheer inertia of 5e5 liters? 
 
 - There are also stores downtown (e.g., Arcade, on west side of Tivoli
just north of the gate) which sell singles of a large variety of local
beers--- Carlsberg is now brewing something the label calls both
"porter" and "stout". 
 
 - There's a brewpub just south of Tivoli west gate, but I didn't have
time to try it. 
 
 - See also the "frikadeller" (huge buffet for around $20) in NW corner
of the railroad station---great food in large quantities, and a dozen
kinds of akvavit you can sample at tolerable prices. 
 
 - most interesting tourist attraction (if you have any time) is the
ruins under Cristiansborg Castle---shows layout and gradual expansion
of previous castles that C'borg was built over.

 -=-=-=-

"Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> wrote:

  I just returned from Germany, stayed in Darmstadt, just south of
Frankfurt. One of the best beers in my opinion (well, they were all
damn good) was the Darmstadter Pils. Give it a try, you should be able
to find it in Frankfurt.

 -=-=-=-

I'll try to keep good notes while I'm there, although I could never hope to
do as thorough a job as Norm Hardy. I don't think I could drink that much in
just 3 weeks ! ;-)
===
Fred Condo. Pro-Humanist BBS: 818/339-4704, 300/1200/2400 bps
Internet: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com  Bitnet: condof at clargrad
UUCP: crash!pro-humanist!fredc [add ' at nosc.mil' for ARPA]
matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722  America Online: FredJC



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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 90 22:36:11 EDT
From: hplabs!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew
Subject: Re:Kegs


Let's try this again.  The first time I sent this message, it bounced.

>Hello,
>I was just reading the latest Zymurgy and discovered an add for alternative
>Beverage companies stainless steel kegs.  I called them and the told me they
>are shipped "as is from the soda manufacturor."  I was wondering if anyone
>reading the digest has purchased kegs from this outfit and what quality the
>kegs were ?
>
>Tkx
>
>Doug

I have not bought kegs from them, so I can't answer what shape they
may be in.  I called them about 2 weeks ago asking about their kegs,
and all they had in stock were Coke kegs (ones with pin lock connectors).

I ordered 2 Pepsi kegs from Art's Brewing in Salt Lake City.  They arrived
in fairly good shape, with the plastic Pepsi and Diet Pepsi seals intact.
(These are plastic bands that loop through the bail on the lid which must
be broken to open the keg.)  Cost was $25 + $2 handling each plus $7.40
shipping to South Carolina.

I plan to drive up to Charlotte within the next few weeks to buy some fittings
from Alternative Beverage and will report on what I find.

PS: Is Pete Soper still around?  I have tried quite a few times to contact
    him and have gotten no reply.  I am also having trouble getting things
    from the archive.  Usually mail just disappears with no indication of
    anything wrong, although I have received some things.

     Jim Griggers                 * * * * *
     brew at ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM  *     *
     408 Timber Ridge Dr.           *   *
     West Columbia, SC             * * *
     29169                        *   * 



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Date: Mon Oct 15 11:35:05 1990
From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: re: Germany


Norm Hardy complains that the AHA needs to train beer judges better...

I assume that you are unhappy about a score you received in a competition.  If 
you have a serious complaint, you can tell the AHA/HWBTA judge program about 
it, simply send a copy of your score sheet(s) to the AHA (the address is in 
Zymurgy) and explain your problem.  Judges can be reprimanded.  

As for training, the judge program provides NO training of any kind.  Judges 
are expected to be self-educated.  Most of us started by reading & re-reading 
Jackson, Papazian, Miller, etc.  Book-learning will get you only so far, 
practical experience at brewing and tasting various styles is absolutely 
necessary, but does not guarantee knowledge of every style.  

In order to advance through the ranks, judges have to gain experience by 
judging.  Yes, some judges make a career out of judging only ales, but you can 
be assured they are not judging obscure lagers, especially at a National 
competition.  In fact, the AHA makes a token effort at using properly 
experienced judges for some of the more specific styles in their National 
competition, especially for things like British Bitter, Lambic, Kolsch, etc.  

While there is no requirement, most of the highly ranked judges (National & 
Master) have been to Europe and tried the beers they claim to know, and avoid 
judging the beers they haven't tried at the source.  Keep in mind also that 
the judging program is still in its infancy, not all judges have had the 
chance to travel enough to realize how ignorant they really are.  If you 
really want to improve the program, become a judge yourself and let others 
gain from your experience.  

In summary, your Alt could get judged by someone who thinks those California 
Alts define the style, but in the National there will probably be at least one 
judge who has been to Dusseldorf and tried the real thing.  Of course, he/she 
may prefer the blander commercial Alts to the tasty brewpub Alts, but nobody's 
perfect.  

 - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team -


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Date: 	Mon, 15 Oct 1990 17:51:32 -0400
From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: ICEWINE

Icewine is made from grapes that have been frozen on the vine. The
water freezes out, and when they are pressed while still frozen, 
they yield a juice of >50Brix (>50%sugar). The place I talked to them
about it (Rief Wines) said that they pick and press the grapes in
February after several days of <-15C weather. It is very expensive,
because; they buy grapes in October, but if the weather cycles too much
before it gets cold enough, they can loose the grapes, no one wants to 
pick and press (outdoors) grapes at -15C, and they don't get a lot of wine
per grape. They have been producing world class gold medal icewine in
the Niagra area for ten years. The weather conditions are good in that they
ussually get cold enough weather to get the harvest in. Two wineries I know
of that make it are Rief, and Hillbrandt both of Niagra Falls Canada.
They charged to taste it, and upon having it, I said that they should give
the samples free because they would sell some to anyone who tries it. He said
they have no trouble selling all they make! I usually buy a 1/2 bottle every 
year. It is more like an expensive liquer, rather than a wine. It has tremendous
arroma, and concentrated grape flavour. It will keep for several weeks after
being opened in the fridge (so they say! I've never had a bottle last more 
than a few days;-) ). It can be drank as soon as you buy it, but it is supposed
to improve tremendously with 10-25 years aging! I've gto a bottle tucked away,
and I'll tell you in 2015;-)

To get a buttery, nutty flavor in your beer, boil all of your brewing water to 
drive off the oxygen. This will cause the yeast to create more Diacytl.
 Then put finings in at teh end of promary fermentation to strip the yeast out
early. Note because you are growing Bonsai yeast, the secondary fermentation
will take longer than you expect. Sam Smith's hear we come!

 Someone wanted to make Olde Peculiar? Well I saw something somewhere that 
adding about 5% of total malt weight of treacle (molasses??) will produce
"that Olde Peculiar taste".

Brrrr!ius ergo EisWien!
Bill Crick





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End of HOMEBREW Digest #518, 10/16/90
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