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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Darrell's ecosystem ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  RE: keg priming vs. oxidation ("Brian Lundeen")
  re: Immersion chiller vs. kettle temperature probe (John Schnupp)
  Re: Peristaltic pump (FLJohnson52)
  Cylindroconical fermenter ("Doug Moyer")
  Detergent for beer glassware ("Doug Moyer")
  Peristaltic Pumps (mabrooks)
  beer lambert law and applicability based on concentration (Aaron Martin Linder)
  The Bouguer-Lambert-Beer Law and Beer (J A S Viggiano)
  Re: Peristaltic pump ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  RE: Peristaltic pump ("Ronald La Borde")
  RE: Peristaltic pump ("Kevin Weaver")


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Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 23:52:43 -0400
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Darrell's ecosystem

Back in http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/5181.html#5181-6 , Darrel says he 
has been playing around with lots of microorganisms. He takes 16 
probiotic microorganisms and wonders if they will interact with the 5 
(or more) microorganisms in his pLambic.

While I love a good Lambic (especially a Gueuze), I have noticed 
digestive problems after drinking several during a session. I take no 
probiotics, other than an occasional yogurt. So, I suggest moderation.

BTW Darrell ... if you die, please donate your body to the HBD, which 
could use a cash infusion (or is it a "cash decoction").

Cheers!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Apparent Rennerian: [394, 79.9]



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 23:22:35 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net>
Subject: RE: keg priming vs. oxidation


> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:28:44 -0700
> From: Brian Miller <bj_mill at pacbell.net>
> Subject: keg priming vs. oxidation
> 
> Totally a**l I know, but 
> I've detected oxidation effects in my kegged beers so that's 
> where I'm at.  I've about run out of 
> ideas besides keg priming to avoid this problem in the 
> future.  Is this common knowledge or am I missing something?
> 

I know this is going to set a few eyeballs rolling (hey you, yes you, the
long haired chap crouching behind the life-sized cutout of Eric Bloom's
Harley, don't think I can't see you), but I think you are a prime candidate
for testing the beneficial effects of metabisulfite. I believe this will
take the place of the oxygen scavenging performed by an active yeast
population during sugar priming.

First, pre-treat the entire batch by adding 1/8 teaspoon of potassium
metabisulfite into the mash water. Then, at kegging, add a pinch (let's say
1/16th of a teaspoon) into the beer to be kegged. Will it make a difference?
Don't know, let us know what you find out. But at this stage, what have you
got to lose by trying it?

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 23:25:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Schnupp <john.schnupp at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Immersion chiller vs. kettle temperature probe

nathanw at MIT.EDU (Nathan J. Williams)
>I recently purchased a new boil kettle (stainless, 34 qt), and it came
>with a thermometer installed through a weldless fitting on the side. I
>thought this was a pretty neat little feature, if not the most useful
>thing in the world for a boil kettle, until I realized that it's in
>the way of using my immersion chiller. The probe bit that sticks in
>goes far enough that the chiller would rest on the probe, rather than
>on the bottom of the pot. This seems a bit unstable and probably bad
>for the temperature probe.
>
>Dimensions: The kettle has in inside diameter of 12.5", the chiller
>has an outside diameter of 9.5", and the temperature probe sticks in 4".

So what about elevating the chiller?  You didn't mention how far off the bottom
of the chiller the temp probe is.  You also didn't mention if the chiller was
SS, copper or some other metal.  If it is copper it should be no problem to
solder (sliver, lead-free) on some pieces to make legs.  If it's made out of
some other metal you may have to be a little more creative about attaching the
legs but it should work.

You might also be able to somehow fashion hooks and chains and suspend the
chiller from the top edges of the pot.



John Schnupp, N3CNL
Georgia, VT
'95 XLH 1200 64,000


 


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Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 08:20:18 -0400
From: FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com
Subject: Re: Peristaltic pump

Doug asks about how to use the peristaltic pump for moving beer from
fermentor to fermenter, etc. 

I took a look at the pump Doug bought. This is not the type of
peristaltic pump that I have used, but I know a little about this pump.
It appears to be a really nice pump, typically used for medical purposes
like dialysis and is essentially the type of pump used is
cardiopulmonary bypass machines. The pump is much more sophisticated
than your standard lab peristaltic pump in that it like has adjustments
for degree of tubing compression. It may accomodate various sized tubing.

I recommend getting in contact with the manufacturer if possible and
getting some documentation on the pumps use. It should at least start
you off with helping you to determine the most appropriate sized tubing
to use. 

I can tell you this much. It will likely be a quite large diameter
tubing, since it is designed to move several liters per minute. Let's
hope it can accomodate some tubing that is more in line with what Doug
needs.

Doug: I'm happy to communicate with you off line on this as I may have
access to the information you need on this pump from my connections with
hospital perfusionists.

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA


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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:05:49 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Cylindroconical fermenter

I have the following fermenter:

http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com/2007/03/19/a-new-toy/

Several problems with it on first brew:

(1) The clamp setup is insufficient to handle a strong fermentation. Any 
suggestions for a better clamping system (without any welding)?

(2) When I tried to drop out the trub on day 3, I got a slug of what 
appeared to be yeast, and then some beery yeast. Doesn't really seem like 
much trub. Are the sides steep enough to concentrate the trub? Do I need to 
use a rubber mallet on the sides to get the stuff to settle?

(3) It seems like a 1/2" ball valve (and associated fittings) is too narrow. 
I will have to wait until it is empty to make any hard measurements, but it 
seems like I could put a 1" fitting in the bottom. Comments from anyone with 
the same equipment? (I think this was a blank from Toledo Metalspinning or 
something like that...)

Other suggestions for working with one of these?

I will replace Bryan's stand with a lower cabinet with a stainless steel 
counter top. (As soon as I design something appropriate.) I plan to use a 
perastaltic pump to move the contents to the kegs, so I don't need the extra 
height - which makes it a pain to move from my brewing area to the 
fermenting area...



Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Beer, brewing, travel & kids: http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com



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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:06:22 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Detergent for beer glassware

I have the fortune of a dishwasher dedicated to washing my beer glasses. 
(Although, I've been so generous as to allow my wife to put the "everyday" 
wine glasses in there as well - but the Riedel glasses still get washed by 
hand...)

What is the best dishwasher detergent to use for washing beer glasses? I.e., 
least impact on head retention while still cleaning. Obviously, I don't want 
spots. As to the visual impact when serving beer to my guests, I'd rather 
have less foam than serve a beer glass covered with spots. (My water is 
somewhat hard - well water in the Blue Ridge mountains...)

I currently use Cascade Complete, which is what I use in our main 
dishwasher.

Thoughts? Comments?



Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Beer, brewing, travel & kids: http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com



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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: mabrooks <mabrooks12 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Peristaltic Pumps

>From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Peristaltic pump 

>I purchased a peristaltic pump off of eBay.
>I have no documentation to go with it, and I've never
>used a peristaltic pump before.
>For those of you that use these things, please answer
>a question or two...

Doug,  You wont need to prime as it is a positive
displacement pump.  I have used these for many, many
years in the research field (from really high out-put
to only milliliters per minute) and I do like them.  I
have never used one for beer before, however, I dont
forsee any issues except throughput and tubing
selection...not sure what the speed is on that
particular unit, some are pretty slow, so it may take
a while to transfer 5 gallons.  A bit of advice - Get
good tubing! The roller heads on these units can be
very agressive (wear) on the tubing that is used in
them.  I used to purchase a special, more resistant
tubing for inside the head and a less expensive tubing
for the suction and discharge portions, this is not
really necessary if you are not using it in a
continuous manner like I was (24/7).  Make sure you
keep an eye on the tubing as it will likely wear and
rupture just when you least want it to.  Also, you can
run it for a several batches and then open the head up
and yank on one end of the tubing and pull a new
(unworn) section through the head (leaving everything
else in place) now the worn area will just be used for
the suction or discharge tubing and not the "working"
part of the head of the unit. I used a special tubing
installation "key" to get the tubing in the roller
portion correctly...made it simple to install/ change
tubing.

Matt B.
Northern Va.



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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Aaron Martin Linder <lindera at umich.edu>
Subject: beer lambert law and applicability based on concentration



matt B. recently wrote:

"Recent postings on the subject topic have stated that
Beer does in fact follow Beers law....hmmmm, perhaps
it does, however, I would like to throw out the
following to ponder:

Diluting a liquid by 10, 20 or 50% and meauring it on
a spectrophotometer, by no means proves it follows
Beer-Lambert(doesnt disprove it either)."


In fact, this is exactly the way to test whether the Beer-Lambert law 
applies to a particular beer.  Beer-Lambert states that the Absorbance 
spectrum of an aqueous solution is proportional to the concentration of 
the solution(this can be a particular component or a mixture of 
components).

If we take the absorbance spectrum of a non-scattering beer solution(a 
non-turbid degassed sample) at various concentrations (of beer) if the 
absorbance is linear with concentration, the law applies to that 
particular beer.

There are of course a lot of things that can confound the results, but we 
can specify that the beer has to be clear and degassed and that there are 
possible instrument or detector-based aberrations, independent of the beer 
solution itself(ie stray light, detector noise, etc. which can be 
determined.)

While there is no concentration known for each component that absorbs each 
wavelength we would assume that each absorbing component will contribute 
to the overall absorbance in a linear way.  if it does not then either our 
spectrophotometer is limited, our beer sample is cloudy or gassy or 
beer-law doesn't apply.

aaron
ann arbor,mi


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Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 15:43:28 -0400
From: J A S Viggiano <jasv at acolyte-color.com>
Subject: The Bouguer-Lambert-Beer Law and Beer

In response to Matt Brooks's recent posting (digest 5182) regarding the
Bouguer-Lambert-Beer law and beer:

1. The concentration of an undiluted beer is known with
near-metaphysical certitude: it's unity! Accordingly, "c" was known for
all cases measured.

2. If the Bouguer-Lambert-Beer Law applies, it applies at all
wavelengths, not just the wavelength of peak absorbance. See A Beer,
"Bestimmung des Absorption des rothen Lichts in farbigen
Fluessigkeiten," _Annalen_Physik_und_Chemie_, Band 86, Heft 2, Seiten
78-90 (1852).

3. The applicability of this law to (especially dark) beers has been
called into question by Ray Daniels and George Fix. See, e.g., Ray
Daniels, "Beer color demystified," _Brewing_Techniques_, July-August
1995.

4. In order to address this issue, some of us have actually looked into
this experimentally. Our interest was not in determining the individual
constituents of the beer, or the wort from which it was fermented, or
the grains from which it was mashed, but whether or not the
Bouguer-Lambert-Beer law is applicable to beers.

5. The study which Mr Brooks dismisses in fact does fly in academe,
possibly because it was/is scientifically sound (modesty prohibits my
asserting this point, however).

6. Professionals with backgrounds in disciplines other than water
science can and do make significant contributions in this area.

7. If one knows the absorbance spectrum of a beer at one concentration
and for one path length, one can compute its apparent color for any
combination of cencentration and path length, provided it obeys the
Bouguer-Lambert-Beer law. Here's a step-by-step:

A. Divide the absorbance spectrum by the product of the path length and
concentration at which it was measured. This is the absorbance spectrum
at unit path length and concentration.

B. Multiply the unit absorbance spectrum by the product of the desired
path length and concentration.

C. Convert Absorbance into transmittance by taking the common
antilogarithm (base 10) of the negative of the absorbance at each
wavelength (T = 10.0 ** -A).

D. Select an observer and illuminant combination. The CIE 1964 Standard
Supplementary Observer and the (now deprecated) CIE Standard Illuminant
C are, IIRC, those recommended by the American Society of Brewing
Chemists. Data for the standard observers and D-series (Daylight)
illuminants are available at:

http://www.cis.rit.edu/mcsl/online/cie.php

I would recommend illuminant D65 instead of deprecated illuminant C.

E. Compute the X, Y, Z tristimulus values of the sample:

	X = sum (t_\lambda xbar_\lambda S_\lambda)
	Y = sum (t_\lambda xbar_\lambda S_\lambda)
	Z = sum (t_\lambda xbar_\lambda S_\lambda)

where t is the spectral transmittance; xbar, ybar, and zbar are the
color matching functions for the selected observer; S is the spectral
power distribution of the selected illuminant, and the summation is over
all wavelengths (lambda).

F. If desired, compute the CIELAB coordinates as:

	L* = 116 * f(Y/Yn) - 16
	a* = 500 * [f(X/Xn) - f(Y/Yn)]
	b* = 200 * [f(Y/Yn) - f(Z/Zn)]

where Xn, Yn, and Zn are, in this case, taken as the XYZ tristimulus
values of a material with unit transmittance at every wavelength (the
perfect transmitter), and the Pauli function f(u) is defined as:

		{u ** (1/3), u < (6/29)**3
	f (u) = {
		{u * 29*29/108 + 4/29, u <= (6/29)**3

(The constant 29*29/108 is approximately 7.787, and the constant
(6/29)**3 is approximately 0.008856. These approximate values were used
in CIE Publication 15.2, _Colorimetry_, second edition; the exact values
are now used in the current Third edition.)

L* is metric Lightness; black is 0, White is 100; a* is metric Redness
(positive)/Greenness (negative); b* is metric Yellowness (positive) /
Blueness (negative). Neutral (achromatic) objects have a* = b* = 0.

G. If desired, one may compute the metric Hue angle and Chroma:

	tan (h_{ab}) = b* / a*
	C*_{ab} = sqrt ((a*)**2 + (b*)**2)

The Chroma of neutrals is zero; as an object's Chroma increases, is
becomes more vivid. The hue angle is defined so that Reds have a hue
angle close to 45 degrees, Yellows close to 95 degrees, Greens close to
160 degrees, and Blues close to 230 degrees.

Therefore, even if you measure a sample of a beer at a concentration of
0.2 (that's 200 ml/l) in a cuvette 1 cm thick (internal dimension), you
may compute, if it obeys the Bouguer-Lambert-Beer law, not only its
absorbance at arbitrary concentrations and pathlengths, but also obtain
its Lightness, Hue, and Chroma.

8. Bouguer made a significant contribution to this law; his work
predated that of Lambert by a few years and that of Beer by over a
century. Lambert was lavish in his praise for Bouguer in his landmark
opus, _Photometria_. Bouguer was apparently began the formulation of
this law. It is only right to recognize his contribution by not ignoring
him when naming this law.

I welcome any thoughtful, constructive discussion of this work.

==JASV




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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:19:10 -0500
From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Peristaltic pump

On May 3, 2007, at 14:09, "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I purchased a peristaltic pump off of eBay.... Does it require  
> priming or is it self-priming?

I've never used one, but peristaltic pumps should be self-priming.  
IIRC, they're positive-displacement pumps, which means they move a  
fixed volume of fluid per shaft revolution. (Contrast with  
centrifugal pumps, such as the near-ubiquitous March 809, which  
generate a pressure differential.)

I'm guessing from the brand name on the one you purchased that it was  
used for moving blood, in which case I should *hope* it's self- 
priming. :-)

- --
Craig S. Cottingham
BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent  
Rennerian)
craig.cottingham at gmail.com




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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 17:27:21 -0500
From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net>
Subject: RE: Peristaltic pump 

>From: "Doug Moyer" <>
>Does it require priming or is it self-priming?
>What type of hose should I use?

No priming needed, that's one of the benefits. It is also OK to run the pump
dry, in fact you can use it as a vacuum pump, or a pressure pump with air or
gas in addition to liquid.

The hose to use will be the tricky part. You need to find out from the Mfg.,
or someone familiar with it to know the size tubing. You will need tubing
made for the purpose of a peristaltic pump. Cole Palmer has a multi
selection, they may be able to look up your model. The tubing size must
match the pump and this will determine the flow rate in combination with the
pump speed.

I particularly like the Masterflex brand with interchangeable heads. You got
a good price on your bid, so once you get the tubing (it's expensive, by the
way, but worth it), you will find many uses for it.

Ron
Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA
New Orleans is the New Atlantis



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Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 21:12:55 -0400
From: "Kevin Weaver" <kweaver at brewmation.com>
Subject: RE: Peristaltic pump

Hi Doug,

We use Peristaltic pumps on our Brewmation Brewery.  They work very well
for wort and beer.  They do not need priming as they are positive
displacement pumps.  Norprene tubing is a good choice.  You will have to
be careful and match the tubing with the roller settings.  If it is not
set up for the tube's wall thickness, it can jam the pump or cause the
pump to transfer less then the design (will become un-predictable).  We
use this style pump for the sparge and the flow is right on time after
time.  What looks neat about the pump you bought is that you can run two
lines.  You will be able to maintain the mash tun level (assuming you do
all grain) without worrying about matching the flow rates.

Since the wort/beer only touches the tubing, sanitation is easy...Very
good for pumping between fermenters etc.  This pump you bought looks
like it is a higher volume pump then our pumps designed for the sparge,
but check out this link containing info on our pumps....

http://www.brewmation.com/MashPumps.html

Hope this helps out...Looks like you found a good pump at a good price.

Kevin




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