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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Stella Artois (leavitdg)
  re: pitching rate / weizens (Richard Lynch)
  Nitrogen in carbon dioxide cylindeers? ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Nitrogen in CO2 bottles ("Patrick Babcock")
  Wyeast 2000 CzechBud (leavitdg)
  PVC Valve (Brew)
  Re:  [Craftbrewing] Nitrogen in carbon dioxide cylindeers? (Jeff Renner)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:44:34 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Stella Artois

I have been challenged to make a Stella, and wonder if anyone here has done so?
I will use the Czech Bud yeast, mostly Pils malt, with perhaps a small amt of
light crystal, and the Saaz hops (perhaps some Hallertau also).

Any thoughts on this style?

Darrell



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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Lynch <rlny7575 at yahoo.com>
Subject: re: pitching rate / weizens

 -S, You when you wrote about the downside of
underpitching, you mentioned that there are other ways
to produce flavors from a yeast, that we must "torture
our little buddies". Could you (or anyone) elaborate
please?

I recently brewed a Hefeweizen using Wyeast 3068 and
am a little disappointed with the results.  It just
doesn't have much of the intense yeast-aroma and
flavor "kick" that says Hefeweizen.  I fermented
around 67F, pitched a quart of slurry from a
propagator pack.  I'm new at Hefewiezens, and would
love to be able to make a Paulaner clone, any pointers
would great, thanks!
 -Rich




       


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:24:40 +1000
From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <craftbrewer at lemis.com>
Subject: Nitrogen in carbon dioxide cylindeers?

This is really two questions, but I suspect the first one is unlikely
to find much of an answer (especially for you people in the USA).

1.  I've recently moved house, from Adelaide to Ballarat.  In Adelaide
    I had a bloke who refilled old fire extinguishers with carbon
    dioxide for my keg system.  Can anybody tell me where I can get
    something similar (refills) in Ballarat or the area?

2.  Here in Ballarat I *have* found a bloke who's prepared to fill the
    cylinders with nitrogen, which sounds like a good alternative.
    But what's the vapour pressure of liquid nitrogen at normal
    temperatures?  I'd suspect it could be considerably higher.  Is
    that the case, and if so, can fire extinguishers handle it?

Greg
- --
Finger craftbrewer at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.


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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:21:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Patrick Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Nitrogen in CO2 bottles


Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Groggy asks about putting nitrogen into CO2 cylinders:

As I recall, the pressure required for bottled nitrogen is on the order of
1200 PSI (8274 kPa), where bottled CO2 is at 853 PSI (5881 kPa). In the
US, we mix the two into standard CO2 bottles ("Aligal" or "Beverage Gas")
for long-draw systems. The cylinders (mine, anyway) can withstand the
pressure; however the overpressure relief valve has to be changed out at
the cylinder head.

Most pressure vessels of this nature (in the US) are stamped with their
service pressure rating, manufacture date, and last certification date
somewhere between the shoulder of the vessel and the neck. Look there for
an indication of whether your fire extinguisher will tolerate the pressure
required for nitrogen. If no markings, you can have it pressure tested;
however, the risk is that you will lose the cylinder through failure. Your
gas supplier probably won't fill it with nitrogen without first pressure
testing it, anyway - after swapping out that relief valve.

I don't think, though, that you truly want to drive a keg with N2. For all
practical purposes, nitrogen is not soluble in beer. Henry's Law dictates
that, as you draw your keg down, the CO2 you are depending on for
carbonation will be drawn out of the beer into the now nitrogen-rich
headspace to equalize the partial pressures on either side of the
beer/headspace boundary. Best is to use the "gas blend" approach,
calculating the percentage of CO2 required at your cellar temperature to
carbonate the beer at the pressure you need to drive your system (partial
pressure of CO2). In other words, you only want to use nitrogen to drive
your system if it requires a higher pressure than is required to carbonate
your beer at the storage temperature, or if you want to drive it at a
higher velocity (ala Guinness) than the carbonating pressure lends.

 -p



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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:54:52 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Wyeast 2000 CzechBud

Hey;

 Anyone know if the Wyeast 2000 needs a diacetyl rest?  I have one started and
need to know soon.

 Happy Brewing!
Darrell



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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:19:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brew <kristbigfoot at yahoo.com>
Subject: PVC Valve

 Purchased a submersible pump to feed iced water into
immersible chiller hoping to achieve pitching temps
quickly.
 Need way to control pump flow. Output port is for one
half inch ID tubing. I have the tubing. I need a one
half
inch valve with barbs on each end. Checked Home Depot
(where I purchased the pump), Lowes, Walmart and
Southern States.  No luck.
 Any other ideas on where I might find a PVC or other
plastic 1/2 inch valve for use in the tubing from the
pump to the chiller?
Cheers!
Kraig


       


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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:15:55 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re:  [Craftbrewing] Nitrogen in carbon dioxide cylindeers?

Greg Lehey wrote from Ballarat down under

> Here in Ballarat I *have* found a bloke who's prepared to fill the
>     cylinders with nitrogen, which sounds like a good alternative.

Unless I am missing something here, you are overlooking the matter of  
partial pressure of gases.

This means that over time, the beer will lose its carbonation to the  
space above the beer since there is no CO2 partial pressure in that  
space, only N2 partial pressure.

Beer gas, available here in the US and I imagine in Oz,  is a mix of  
(usually) 70% N2 and 30% CO2 that is used to keep beer under higher  
pressure than normal without overcarbonating it from too much CO2  
pressure.  If the regulator is set to, say, 45 psi/300 kPa, then the  
beer will, with time, equilibrate as if it were under 30% of that  
pressure pure CO2, or 13.5 psi/90 kPa, which is about right for  
highly carbonated standard US megabeers kept at typical temperature  
(40F/4C).  (The nitrogen is almost insoluble.)

This allows the beer to be kept under high pressure for delivery to  
taps that are distant and/or higher than the kegs.

It is also used for so-called "creamy" ales and stouts, where the  
beer is forced out of small orifices under the high pressure.  The  
modest carbonation (modest because the partial pressure of CO2 is  
relatively low compared to that of cold, fizzy lagers) is partially  
knocked out by the turbulence, resulting in a fine, creamy head and  
low carbonation in the glass.

Pure nitrogen will work if you are dispensing your beer quickly  
before it could lose carbonation, but, then, so would compressed air.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943





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