---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                     Your Business Name Here
    Visit http://hbd.org "Sponsor the HBD"  to find out how!
			 
    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Re: Starters without DME (Matthew)
  Starter without DME ("A.J deLange")
  Re: Starter without DME/kreuzen=>CO2 (steve alexander)


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew <dr_bubble at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Starters without DME

I use an even simpler approach to minimize the need for DME in starters.
Collect enough wort from your previous batch to make a starter in a plastic 
container.  Throw it in the freezer for storage.  Thaw and boil when needed. 
No need to go through the lengthy canning process considering you'll be 
boiling it for the starter anyway.  Granted, this works best when the
previously brewed batch is neutral, light in color, low in "smoked malts"
or low in hops (Do we really know what grain bill went into their DME anyway?).
All gravity worts higher than starter gravities can be diluted with water 
to achieve optimum starting gravities.

Matthew





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:08:52 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Starter without DME

Bill's suggestion  about Malta Goya triggered in me ancient memories of 
Blue Ribbon Malt Extract (with a picture of Lena on the lable). I 
suppose that you ought still be able to buy that or something like it in 
supermarkets even today as malt sugar is used in lots and lots of foods 
(check for it on ingredients lables). Health food stores might be a good 
place to try as well.

A.J.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:12:56 -0400
From: steve alexander <steve-alexander at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Starter without DME/kreuzen=>CO2

The reason you shouldn't use sugar solutions for a yeast starter is
that it doesn't work !  No, using some particular sugar or other in a
starter does not cause the yeast to forget it's genetic heritage (that
one goes on the momily list).  The problem is that carbon(sugar) is
only one of ~50 odd growth factors needed for yeast to grow.  They
need many of the amino acids, biotin, pantothenic acid, enzyme
co-factors, O2 or a sterol source and many more.

Years ago now, I was looking for the mysterious 'kit flavor', and I
made of some ~7P or ~8P solutions of glucose, fructose and sucrose and
then radically overpitched these from a good slurry.  None of these
fully attenuated and the sucrose didn't even complete the invertase
step of splitting the disaccharide.  Each left roughly half of the
sugar !

When yeast lack a required growth factor, they stop dividing and
typically this induces them to become quite dormant and to produce
surface cell changes that cause flocculation.  Not good for a
starter.

The suggested solutions are good - do a stove-top micromash, move to
Oz where beer kits appear in the corner grocery.  Canning wort is the
ideal for preservation, but Doc Pivo posted a method a number of years
ago that I have used ever since.  Brew an extra gallon or so of wort
and after the boil & chiller, freeze the excess in a chest freezer.  I
believe Pivo mentioned 2L pop bottles tho' I've been using some
thicker 1/2 gallon screwcap rubbermaid containers.  You should be
wary of fridge-bug infection, so a good swim of the sealed container
in a bucket of iodophor sol'n is called for.  I'd still re-boil if I
was making plates or reculturing from tubes.  Note also that freezing
~10% of wort is a good means of having a kreuzen available.

- --

Fwiw a 12P, normal attenuation wort produces abt 22 volumes of CO2 so
a 10% kreuzen addition will supply ~2.2volumes of CO2 to the whole.

 -s




Return to table of contents

---