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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Pils (leavitdg)
  Diacetyl rest (leavitdg)
  No wait, no knead Bread (Thomas Rohner)
  Pilsner Mash/Lime Treatment ("A.J deLange")
  uerige data point (Edward Siddle)
  Ann Arbor water ("Spencer W. Thomas")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:03:23 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Pils

Fred;
  I have been making a fair number of these over the last year, and what I do,
which is not real scientific, but seems to work is that I add 1 gallon of my
own water (which is much like Munich, ie lots of calcium, and bicarb) with the
distilled,so that my sparge water has 1/2 gal of the harder water and my mash
does as well.  It is not as accurate as I know I could be, but there is an art
to this as well as a science, I believe.

 -Darrell



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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:07:00 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Diacetyl rest

It is said that some lager/pils yeast need the diacetyl rest, while some do not.
 What I wonder is: what is the down side of doing the rest with a yeast that
does not need it? In other words, would the final product be better if this is
not done for a yeast that apparently doesn't build up the diacetyl?

Darrell



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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:23:37 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: No wait, no knead Bread

Hi all

do yourself a favour and get a bread maker, if you're seriously baking. 
It's so easy to fill the ingredients and program it to be ready when you 
want to bake. I don't like the bread baked in the bread maker, no nice 
crust and not the crumb i like. My SWMBO was pretty clear about my new 
bread maker after she tried a bread baked in it. (Something like: your 
breads where so good, why did you buy this crap...)
But then she realised the advantages. Having freshly baked bread early 
saturday and sunday morning.
I don't use it for baking anymore, just for timed kneading. Something 
like no knead, and no wait.

Cheers Thomas

will be making 12 gal of soup for carnival festivities tomorrow...


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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:52:00 -0500
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Pilsner Mash/Lime Treatment

I do pils with a blend of about 90% RO water and 10% tap water which 
gives me a calcium harndess of about 6 and a magnesium hardness of about 
5 ppm as CaCO3. I do not supplement the minerals. I generally get a 
dough in pH of about 5.5 and this tends to rise to near 5.7 as the mash 
progresses. If I get nervous I dump in enough HCl to get it back to 5.6 
or so. Note that these pH's are at room temp so are not as bad as they 
may look at first. The result is usually 65-67% efficiency (80 pounds of 
grain yielding about 52 pounds of extract) which, while it isn't great, 
isn't too bad either and, most important of all, the beer is good!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

RE: Ann Arbor water. Lime treatment can be looked at as neutralization 
of a strong base, Ca(OH2) with the "acid" HCO3- in  the source water. 
The "titration" can be stopped at a chosen end point (within limits) and 
the finished water pH tweaked by adding liquid carbonic (CO2) or another 
acid (sufuric, hydrochloric). I'm guessing that the water board has good 
reasons for setting the pH where they do. Supposing they have 
softened/decarbonated the water to a calcium hardness of about 25 and 
alkalinity of about the same amoun the saturation pH would be about 8.6 
and they would want the pH somewhat above this to get some deposition of 
CaCO3 in their mains for protection. Does anyone know the hardness and 
alkalinity of this water?

A. J.


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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:59:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Edward Siddle <eddetchon at yahoo.co.nz>
Subject: uerige data point

In the spirit of not being just a lurker and non-poster......
I've gotten a lot out of reading the HBD and particularly 
the back 'catalogue' since I started brewing again in 
2005 after not having brewed since the mid 1990s. One 
of the threads from the past that I got huge enjoyment
out of reading was the Altbier ones from 1998 (ran
alongside the clinitest wars iirc).  

Anyway - I've just gotten back to New Zealand after a 
month in Germany, 3 days of which were spent in
Duesseldorf. When I first went into the back room of 
Zum Uerige, there was a pallet of malt sacks sitting 
there so, curious to see
exactly 

what 
they 
were 
putting 
in 
to
the 
beer, 
I 
had 
a 
bit 
of 
a 
poke 
around 

before 
they 
put 
it 
in 
the 
hoist/lift
up 
into 
the 
brewery.  
It 
was 
Weyermann 

Caramunich 
2 
 - 
and 
not 
3 
as 
I
have 
often 
seen 
suggested 
in 
clone 
recipes.  

 

My 
general 
impressions 
were 
that 
Uerige
 was 
the 
darkest 
and 
most
bitter 
of 
the 
Altstadt 
Altbiers, 
but 
it 

didn't 
come 
across 
to 
me 
as
having 
any 
Munich 
malt 
character, 

unlike 
Schumacher 
which 
I 
ended 
up
drinking 
a 
lot 
of 
because 
my 
hotel 
was 
j
ust 
around 
the 
corner 
from 
it. 
This 
seemed 
to 
me 
to 
be 
well 
attenuated 

Munich 
through 
and 
through, 
and
was 
considerably 
lighter 
in 
both 
colour 

and 
taste 
than 
Uerige 
 - 
and 
a
little 
less 
bitter 
too.  
Im 
Fuechschen 
was
 similar 
though 
a 
touch
darker, 
while 
Schluessel 
 - 
my 
favourite 
 - 


struck 
me 
as 
being 
a 
bit 
of 
a
halfway 
point 
between 
all 
the 
others.  

 
My 
favourite 
recipe 
for 
Alt 
remains 
a 

version 
of 
Dave 
Miller's 
in
his 
Complete 
Homebrewing 
 - 
about 

5/8 
Pils, 
3/8 
Munich 
as 
the 
base, 
plus
120-150g 
Caramunich 
2 
and 
15g 
Carafa
 (of 
course 
Miller 
uses 
crystal 
and
chocolate 
malts 
instead).  
I'll 
have 

to 
make 
that 
recipe 
again 
soon,
but 
I 
reckon 
it 
is 
probably 
pretty 
close 

to 
Schluessel, 
having 
now 
been
there.  
No 
idea 
about 
yeasts 
though
 - 
I'm 
still 
playing 
around 
with
those. 

Can 
I 
just 
add 
some 
support 
to 
the 

guy 
yesterday 
who 
said 
about 
the 

difficulty 
of 
posting.  
I 
have 
tried 4 

times 
now 
to 
post 
this, 
and 
have 

read 
the 
FAQs 
and 
done 
what 
i 

thought 
would 
help, 
but 
as 
yet 

to 
no 
avail.  
fingers 
crossed 
for 
this 
one. 
is it just a knack that you get used to?
 

 

Just 
some 
thoughts.

Ed

Wellington, 
New 
Zealand


Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com 



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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:15:23 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Ann Arbor water

According to the 2006 report, hardness averages 143mg/l, ranging from
100-198, coming from "Naturally occurring minerals; controlled by water
treatment process".

They don't list "alkalinity", nor do they list our compounds of interest.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor



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