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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Brew Pub (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
  Thanks to all for the Duvel Yeast info... ("Cave, Jim")
  Re: Brew Pub (Dylan Wilder-Tack)


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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:57:02 -0800
From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor at peak.org>
Subject: Re: Brew Pub

Pete asks about part time brewpubs and we were neighbors to one 10 years 
ago in Albany, OR.  The Oregon Trader started out as you described:  
open 3-4 days a week.  If memory serves it was 3-8pm.  It was licensed 
as a tasting room (similar to a winery) since the production occurred 
on-premises.  It's doing quite nicely, full time, as Calapooia Brewing 
Co.  Still a delightful local treasure.
You may find a lot of help at www.probrewer.com (free) and the Brewers 
Association (www.beertown.org  most of the really good stuff with 
membership.)  The Brewers Association may be particularly helpful with 
insurance issues, but you have the luxury of having Peter Whalen and 
Whalen Insurance close by in Central MA.  You'd think that insurance 
would be the least of your concerns, spitting distance from Hartford, 
and all.
I insert the Probrewer Discussion Forum URL for a quick link.
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=29

If you have the mayor on your side, you'll find a way.  Consider 
contract brewing, or the idea I've always thought promising is to 
contract wort production and ferment/finish on-premises.
Best of luck,
Scott Bruslind
Lebanon, OR 97355
(formerly of Sherman, CT a long time ago)


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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 08:27:51 -0800
From: "Cave, Jim" <Cave at psc.org>
Subject: Thanks to all for the Duvel Yeast info...

I first brewed my Duvel clone some time ago before all the different
Belgian Yeast strains were available as they are today.  I was a member
of a yeast sharing group:  A mixture of microbiologists and other geeks
from across the USA and Canada who had formed part of a very small list
serve and who traded yeasts.  There were only about 20 of us.  This
started when one of the individuals got some of the Weinstephan weizen
strains, at a time (1993) when weizen yeast strains were unavailable in
North America. At the time neither Wyeast nor White Labs had anything in
the way of Belgian Strains or wheat beer strains for that matter.  There
was a student in one of the local universities doing his PhD in yeast
research who was a member of the group.  He looked after the cultures
and their integrity and I brewed the beer.  

I can't remember all the details of how I brewed this beer.  The
contribution of sugar from the fermentables I think I got from one of
Michael Jackson's books.  I see from my logs that the beer was made on
April 15, 1995.  For 48 litres final volume: 10.48 kg Canadian 2 row
malt.  0.2 kg malted wheat.  1.65 kg corn sugar.  Targeted 29 IBU's with
Rager calculation.  Hop additions were 63 g 7.1 AA Northern Brewer for
60 minutes.  Late additions were 14 g 4% Saaz 23 g 5% Hallertau for 10
minutes and 14 g 4% Saaz 20 g 5% Hallertau at knockout.  It seems the
beer was fermented with two different strains of the Duvel yeast.  I
have the following comments from my log...

"All Grain Beer # 81 COMMENTS:  Procedure was rather complicated.  I
mashed to 1.058 and pitched about 4 litres of very active starter.  A
strong ferment was evident about 16 hours later.  At 24 hours, I added
the dextrose to raise the effective gravity to 1.071.  The yeast became
sluggish, particularly Mike Sharp's strain. After a month in the
secondary, Todd Gierman's strain was drier.  The beer was put in cold
storage for a month, after which Mt hood pellets were added.  After the
wit was finished, I took the Celis yeast used and added all of it to the
beer fermented with Mike Sharp's yeast.  This dried everything out
nicely.  The beer was put in cold storage until the 8th of September,
when it was raked, blended, and allowed to raise to about 60 F at which
time 650 mls of fresh yeast were added and about 2.25 cups of Dextrose
were added.  9.5 cases of beer were recovered."

Note that the yeast died on me, and the beer was quite sweet, so I used
the yeast cake (Celis yeast, without the lacto bacillus) from a wit I'd
just made and pitched it.  It took off like a rocket and fermented out.


I bottled one of my "Duvel clones" in a Duvel bottle, complete with cap.
Then I bought a Duvel from the store.  My wife opened the bottles and
marked one of them.  Then they were put in front of myself and a Master
ranked judge.  The Master Ranked judge was asked to comment on these two
bottles of Duvel, unaware of the circumstances.  She was puzzled and
could only say that the one of the bottles (the real one) tasted older
than the other. Needless to say, I was pretty pleased.

I think I'll try and get the White Labs version as there is quite a bit
of yeast in those tubes and I'll step it up with a large starter, maybe
even brew a small De Konnick knock-off to crop sufficient yeast.



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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:29:55 -0600
From: Dylan Wilder-Tack <dylan at io.com>
Subject: Re: Brew Pub

> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:03:55 -0500
> From: Pete Limosani <peteLimo at comcast.net>
>
> 1) Could it make financial sense to open a brew pub that serves 150
> people 3 nights a week?

I don't have any personal experience to share, but I stumbled upon a  
really neat book at my local library recently:
The Brewers Association's Guide to Starting Your Own Brewery, by Ray  
Daniels, ISBN 0937381896

It was quite detailed, and had a lot of solid numbers to get you  
started.

I also recently listened to a Basic Brewing interview with Worth  
Brewing Company.  This is a guy that went pro with a 10 gallon sabco  
system.  Yes, 10 *gallons* (not barrels).
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr12-20-07worthbrewing.mp3

I would also not be scared away by the insurance agent until you've  
got some hard quotes.  There are a lot of costs to consider -- the  
liquor license (some places have reduced fees for "native"  
breweries), dram shop insurance, maybe extra property insurance.     
But you won't know until you add it all up...

good luck,
Dylan


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