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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Brewing Logic and Experimentation (Dean)
  Re: Brewing Logic and Experimentation (Dean)
  Re: Heaters, etc. (Scott Alfter)
  Brewing Experimentation ("Alexandre Enkerli")


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Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:23:56 -0500
From: Dean <dean at brewsession.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing Logic and Experimentation

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/5315.html#5315-1

 > I guess what I'd like to see is a type of compendium of all those data
 > points about brewing. Including data coming from semi-controlled
 > experiments as well as those more informal notions we've all gained
 > through experience. An enterprising group or publication could even
 > pay brewers a nominal amount for data about their batches. Brewclub
 > meetings could happen around informal and more formal experiments. And
 > brewing knowledge could be gained. Slowly but surely.

Hello Ale-X,

I think you are on to something here.  This is something that Greg and I would 
like to facilitate when http://brewsession.com goes live.  (BrewSession is a 
recipe designer and shared database, among other things.)  An infinite number 
of brewers sharing recipes and evaluations should eventually produce meaningful 
scientific results.

We plan to allow brewers to tie BCJP scoresheets to their recipes and also fill 
out their own evaluations.  Given "enough" similar recipes and evaluations we 
can begin to come up with results.

For the widely popular and simple styles such as pale ale we ought to come up 
with a significant number of recipes that differ by one ingredient (yeast, base 
malt, water, etc).  Using this data we should be able to reach some meaningful 
conclusions.

- --Dean
- --
Take your time, take your chances
[1709.5 km, 224.8 deg] Apparent Rennerian
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ours is the age that is proud of machines that think and suspicious of people
who try to.
   - H. Mumford Jones


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:16:13 -0500
From: Dean <dean at brewsession.com>
Subject: Re: Brewing Logic and Experimentation

Alexandre Enkerli wrote:
> Dean, Greg, HBDers,
> 
> The BrewSession plan sounds pretty good! It can definitely work out.
> 
> One dream I kept having was for a CMS of brewing knowledge. Part
> beerpedia, part RateBeer/BeerAdvocate, part Freebase for brewing, part
> brewsoft. Tied with inventory management, brewclub rosters, LHBSS
> order forms...

This is almost exactly our plan for brewsession.  :-D  Like you, we dream big, 
so the first thing we want to put out is a recipe designer and some brewclub 
functions.    Watch http://blog.brewsession.com/ for updates.

Another thing that would be great to start is a DB of commercial beer styles, 
logging their "style" against the ingredients they use, and their complete 
specs, including CO2 levels.

> Because my dreams tend to be too big, the best strategy is most
> certainly to start with recipe formulation and analysis. Accumulating
> and repurposing data about recipe details. Distributed brewing
> experiments.
> We already end up discussing recipes quite a bit. Some of these
> discussions could become increasingly formalized/formatted. IMHO,
> nothing is more valuable in a recipe database than accompanying notes.
> Some of these could be "narrative" ("the reason I used Simcoe is that
> I was out of my usual hops"), others could be category based ("malty,"
> "spicy," "tart"), others could be numerical (1.12:1 GU:BU). Some
> things are subjective there but there is such a thing as
> "intersubjectivity" and dialogue. Keeping a record of many of these
> things "for future generations."

We plan on tracking a number of subjective and objective data (such as 
narrative notes and GU:BU ratios), but could use some ideas about compiling 
results from experiments.

> It's probably important to keep in mind that it should remain fun and
> playful. But if a compendium of brewing knowledge is compiled, it can
> include both formal data points and fun anecdotes.
> 
> As usual, I'm thinking out loud. But I like the BrewSession concept,
> if I understand it correctly.

Sounds like you understand the concept.

> Cheers!
> 
> 
> Ale-X on an OLPC XO-1 at JP's Java in Austin, TX having a
> Clover-brewed Bolivian Jatum Kjari.

Just moved to the great state of TX, Bryan to be exact, not too far from Austin.

- --Dean
- --
Take your time, take your chances
[1709.5 km, 224.8 deg] Apparent Rennerian
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ours is the age that is proud of machines that think and suspicious of people
who try to.
   - H. Mumford Jones


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:22:56 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Re: Heaters, etc.

Harlan Bauer wrote:
> While it *is* a lot of electricity, it would also be a lot of propane
> as well. Do you know, off hand, what the equation would be for BTU's/lb
> of propane (if so, just give me the equation and let me figure it
> out--I really *do* want to understand this stuff, not just know the
> answer)? I'm actually more comfortable with a gas fired kettle, but
> that's only because that's what I'm used to. I have a feeling, though,
> that electricity might turn out to be cheaper. 

My heatsticks cost maybe $1 to operate for the production of a 5-gallon batch. 
  A 20-lb. tank of propane (that costs $15-$20) makes maybe 4 or 5 batches 
IIRC, for a cost per batch of $3-$5.

   _/_  Scott Alfter
  / v \ Visit the SNAFU website today!
(IIGS( http://www.nevadabrew.com/   Top-posting!
  \_^_/ rm -rf /bin/laden            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:31:52 -0500
From: "Alexandre Enkerli" <enkerli at gmail.com>
Subject: Brewing Experimentation

Dean, Greg, HBDers,

The BrewSession plan sounds pretty good! It can definitely work out.
One dream I kept having was for a CMS of brewing knowledge. Part
beerpedia, part RateBeer/BeerAdvocate, part Freebase for brewing, part
brewsoft. Tied with inventory management, brewclub rosters, LHBSS
order forms...
Because my dreams tend to be too big, the best strategy is most
certainly to start with recipe formulation and analysis. Accumulating
and repurposing data about recipe details. Distributed brewing
experiments.
We already end up discussing recipes quite a bit. Some of these
discussions could become increasingly formalized/formatted. IMHO,
nothing is more valuable in a recipe database than accompanying notes.
Some of these could be "narrative" ("the reason I used Simcoe is that
I was out of my usual hops"), others could be category based ("malty,"
"spicy," "tart"), others could be numerical (1.12:1 GU:BU). Some
things are subjective there but there is such a thing as
"intersubjectivity" and dialogue. Keeping a record of many of these
things "for future generations."
It's probably important to keep in mind that it should remain fun and
playful. But if a compendium of brewing knowledge is compiled, it can
include both formal data points and fun anecdotes.
As usual, I'm thinking out loud. But I like the BrewSession concept,
if I understand it correctly.

Cheers!


Ale-X on an OLPC XO-1 at JP's Java in Austin, TX having a
Clover-brewed Bolivian Jatum Kjari.


Return to table of contents

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