---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  re: First Berliner Weisse ("Boris de Mesones")
  Re: Hop Shortage (Robert Tower)
  HBD Language Filters ("Pat Babcock")
  Pubs between San Fran and OC ("Keith Christian")
  RE: Hop Shortage ("Josh Knarr")
  RE Camden Tablets (Steven Parfitt)
  RE> Subject: Hop Shortage (beerdan)
  re: hop shortage ("Chad Stevens")
  RE: Homebrew walk-in cooler controller ("Mike Sharp")
  Re: Homebrew walk-in cooler controller ("Dave Larsen")
  HBD vs. AHA TechTalk ("Dave Larsen")
  Re: I miss my Homebrew Digest ("Dave Larsen")
  Need Air Tap / non-CO2 Keg Tap Connection (JD)" <qageek@gmail.com>
  First Time Post (Mike Kilian)
  Honey ("Spencer W. Thomas")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:51:29 +0900
From: "Boris de Mesones" <demesones at gmail.com>
Subject: re: First Berliner Weisse

Fred L Johnson wrote:

>I brewed my first Berliner Weisse four weeks ago

I am sorry to say that I have never brewed a B. Weisse.

>is it very sweet like a lemonade or an alcopop? ..............
>How green does it get when the Germans order it? ..........

As far as I remember, as Thomas R. writes in another post, original
Weisse was sold unmixed and buyers had two bottles of syrup at their
disposition to mix with their beers in as much as they wanted to
create their own sweet/sour balance. This style was consumed a lot by
old German ladies sitting at traditional street cafes (maybe all gone
by now ... both). With a bit of syrup (quite sweet) the color changed
to green or red quite easily and balanced the sour flavor. There were
different qualities of syrup. Later (around 1998) Schultheiss brewery
began to sell Weisse premixed in cans and the result was a green or
red beer with some sort of sour flavor but not overpowering.

An anecdote about brewing B. Weisse. In 1998 a recently graduated
Brewing Engineer (sorry, no names) was building his own Brewery in
Berlin in the cellar of an old Pub. His second batch was a Munich
wheat beer. The beer was to be given to some social event organised
for brewers, where all main Berlin breweries were going to send their
beers as well. Because he was leaving for a few days, he asked me to
control the fermentation temperature of his open tank. When we entered
the fermenting room I noticed the stinging odor of sour/spoiled beer.

 - man, are you sure you are brewing a weizen bier ,- I exclaimed.
 - is just the floor, this room was used to store barrels for more than
15 years and has never been cleaned properly of spilled beer, dont
worry is just lactobacillus - he replied.
 - be carefull because those little creatures can swim, dive, jump, fly
and share immunity codex through telecinetics (sp?).

He laughed at my remark and two weeks later the beer was very sour but
not "spoiled". He bottled it, changed the label from Weizen to
Berliner Weisse and presented it at the event together with two
bottles of syrup. Whilst drinking a few with him, a famous German
Brewing Engineer (some technical books written already), approached us
and told him the Weisse was excellent, that he was surprised by the
quality and his choice to brew such a style. My friend smiled and
replied - you know .... brewmasters secrets -.

Speaking recently about a similar action to a brewer working for H....
he defined this sort of actions as -remarketing- at the right moment.

Cheers and salud

Boris


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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:45:33 -0700
From: Robert Tower <roberttower at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Hop Shortage

Dave Larsen asks: "Has the hop shortage made you reformulate any of your 
recipes?"

Oh boy has it ever! IPAs are out of the question. I recently scored a 
reasonable quantity of Cascade and made an extra hoppy APA, and am 
savoring it mightily as so many hops went into it. English pale ales are 
out, I can't find enough English hops. In the fall of 2006 I purchased 
three or four pounds of hops, more out of convenience than anything 
else. Unfortunately they were all low alpha types (Mt. Hood, Crystal, 
Tettnanger) as I thought I could purchase the high alpha varieties at my 
LHBS as needed. I'm pretty much down to making low IBU, low aroma styles 
(marzen, hefeweizen, kolsch, wheat ale, cream ale).

As an experiment I even brewed a light ale, basically an ale version of 
a standard American lager, in which I used some isomerized hop extract 
that a friend gave to me some time ago. In the brew kettle I put about 3 
IBU of real hops in. Then when I racked to secondary I added the hop 
extract to bump the total IBU to 17. It turned out wonderful (well, for 
what it is). In light of the shortage, I will likely be using more of 
this extract to conserve my whole hops exclusively for late additions. I 
feel lucky to have it. When he gave it to me, I figured I'd only be 
using it for experiments. At the time I had no idea of the coming hop 
shortage. Using hop extract is not something I would have considered 
before. The hop shortage has definitely changed my approach to brewing. 
I'm hoping to get a few pounds of high alpha pellets in the fall to tide 
me over for another bad year.

Bob Tower / Los Angeles, CA


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:23:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: HBD Language Filters

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:19:07, "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> wrote of
the HBD language filters:

> I'm having difficulty posting this, because for some reason the HBD
> filters seem to think I'm posting offensive language.  I know I'm not
> supposed to use things like the degree symbol or German characters,
> but if this is a typical experience, it's no wonder posting volumes are
> down.  I think the words that did it is the common 3 word phrase one
> uses when a seller warrants that a product someone purchases can be
> returned and the original purchase price credited back to the person
> doing the purchasing...which is a way better way of putting it than
> simply saying:
>
> m_ney-ba_k guar_nt_e
>
> Sure, the canned meat product that we use to describe unwanted
> electronic solicitations is a problem, but...

Folks, the server coughs up an error message to the poster - even spammers
 - who use verboten words and phrases in their email, indicating the
passage in which the language appears. If you read the server response,
there is usually little or no mystery as to what is causing problems.
[Well, sometimes the word(s) that trigger it baffle even me, and I wrote
the filter. Aside from the original naughty words (rest in peace, George),
all the words in the filter's dictionary were harvested from SPAM emails.]

Not to be overly antagonistic, but what would you rather have us do?
Remove such obvious filters to allow spam through, taking a risk that it
would make it past our vigilance as janitors, triggering your ISP,
private, or corporate filter instead? Or should we continue to ask the
posters to exercise a little judgement when it comses to selecting their
phrases? It seems reasonable to me to expect the phrase "money back
guarantee" to trigger most SPAM filters on the planet.

We did exercise a little forethought in developing the language filters as
well: the system is written such that the rejections generated by the
language filter also generate a message on our end (yes - we get notified
of each and every piece of SPAM that bounces off the server...). We have
the ability to easily "reinstate" any post rejected by the language
filters, and the response sent by the server asks the sender to forward 
the note to the Janitors for handling. Either through your forarding of the
rejection notice to us or through our own review of language rejections, 
your post can be readily reinstated.

From this, you can see that we, as Janitors, monitor the queue for 
detritus, removing what we can to prevent your having to deal with it. We 
also monitor all of the detritus to ensure it is, in fact, garbage. When a
poster comes up against one of our methods, it sure would be great to 
receive understanding rather than complaints; particularly complaints sent
to the posting address which simply generate more of the same...


- -- 
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief of HBD Janitorial Services
http://hbd.org
pbabcock at hbd.org



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:09:13 -0700
From: "Keith Christian" <keithchristian at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Pubs between San Fran and OC

Hi,

I am taking a trip from San Francisco to Orange County CA.  What are
some of the must stop and have a few or more good beers at?  If anyone
can point me to the pub crawler web page, that would be appreciated.

Thank you,

Keith
 



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:14:43 -0400
From: "Josh Knarr" <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Hop Shortage

> Has the hop shortage made you reformulate any of your recipes?

Yes, but this has led me to exploring hop alternatives which I
normally wouldn't know otherwise. Good example - I went to brew a
brown (which really turned into a maiboch by accident) and wanted to
use hallertau. A lot of them. But there were none to be had!

The local homebrew store had sapphire hops (mislabelled at "safire")
on the cheap. Not only were they sapphire, but they were organic
sapphire in wonderful vacuum packed bunches. I bought these probably
for $0.50 cheaper than I would have on the nobles because no-one know
what they were and they were about to expire.

Unfortunately this is what made my brown into a maiboch - they also
didn't have the AAU they should have if they were fresher. However the
aroma is cleaner (hallertau sometimes has this weird "cheese" aroma)
and the spicy/bitter finish is in the mix so I am overall happy with
the substitution.


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:48:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE Camden Tablets

I've been crushing one or two tablets and sprinkling them over the mash,
then stiring it in. 

I've never had a problem with it killing yeast.

I suspect the campden tablets are not being used in an AG mash, and
possibly in an extract beer. If added to the cold water used to dilute 
the partial boil, it could cause problems.

Steven

JC-TN 



      


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:08:43 -0400
From: beerdan at optonline.net
Subject: RE> Subject: Hop Shortage

RE> Subject: Hop Shortage

I've been lucky as perusing the local homebrew shops, I've managed to 
collect enough hops to brew what I want. I restrict myself to leaf or plugs as 
pellets clog my system. Only once am I not able to brew what I want but I'll 
be able to modify it with other hops to come close enough to be acceptable 
for it's use at a beerfest.
  Dan McLaughlin





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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:40:12 -0700
From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net>
Subject: re: hop shortage

Dave Larsen asks if recipe formulation has changed as a result of the "hop 
shortage?"

This is anecdotal, but we just had the San Diego County Fair Homebrew Comp 
June 22nd.  The guy I had judging IPA's (one of six judges we had judging 
IPA's) who read off the winners for that category mentioned while at the 
podium that he noted a distinct lack of hopitude this year as compared to 
years past.

On the craftbrew front, most of the brewers in San Diego have vowed to make 
their beers just that much hoppier "just to show them."  Whoever "them" 
is....

The Fair Craft Beer BOS was Green Flash IPA and I can attest that this 
beer's hopitude has not diminished in the least.

FWIW,

Chad Stevens
QUAFF
San Diego 



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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:34:37 -0700
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew walk-in cooler controller

Ed Westemeier asks if anyone has used the CoolBot...

I haven't used one, but it's pretty clear how it works.  You have to
translate the poor technospeak...

"when it can't access your BTUs of cooling power, CoolBot is programmed to
shut off the compressor on your A/C unit"

Translation:  There is a frost sensor that will shut off your A/C unit when
it ices up.  When you overwork an air conditioner, they ice up.  I know it
seems counter intuitive, but an air conditioner working real hard on a very
hot day will eventually ice up if it doesn't make it to the setpoint soon
enough (assuming a shutdown/defrost cycle isn't in place).  That's one of
the reasons air conditioners don't make good refrigeration systems.  The
other is that their refrigerant cycle is optimized for higher temperatures
and runs at different pressures.  That's why they also state that it's
slower once you get below 45 deg, and why you don't get the rated BTU
capacity (it's out of its optimum range).  

Refrigeration systems don't have the icing problem because they have
defrosting built in, either by electric heaters or by reversing the
refrigerant and running hot gas through the evaporator.

Basically, the way the CoolBot works is they heat up the temperature sensor
on the A/C unit to fool the built in controller into thinking things are
much warmer than they actually are.  Then when the temperature is cold
enough, or else the unit begins to ice up, it shuts the heater off, the
temperature sensor cools down and the A/C shuts itself down.  

It's a clever idea, actually.  While it's going to work your compressor
hard, the frost sensor will shut things down when it needs to.  A/C units
will probably eventually burn up if they ice up and don't shut down.

One thing, I suspect the CoolBot ramps the setpoint down to the temperature 
you chose, and doesn't try to get there in one shot.  But maybe the frost 
sensor achieves that by itself.

Really, the one thing that a real walk-in compressor has going for it is
robustness.  I'm not sure I'd depend on a CoolBot and a window air 
conditioner to keep $10,000 worth of meat cold, but it sounds like a decent 
idea.  However, you could build one fairly easily with two thermostats 
(one to detect the frost condition, and one to control the heating 
element). Both are wired in series to power the small heater.  Some regular 
heat tape that you use to keep pipes from freezing might work for the 
heater. It shouldn't take much of a heater.  I think the reason it doesn't 
work well with a metal thermal sensor is because the metal conducts the 
heat away too quickly.  

if anyone is tempted to make one themselves, it's going to take a fair 
amount of tinkering and you have to balance that against the liability of 
it...CoolBot seems to have a good warranty.


Regards,
Mike Sharp

Kent, Washington
[1891.3, 294deg] AR









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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:06:24 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew walk-in cooler controller

>
> I ran across a gadget (CoolBot) that works to let you use a window air
> conditioner to control an insulated room to a far lower temperture
> than you ordinarily could with just the a/c.
>
> Costs $300 but it might be a good choice for someone who wants to
> build their own cooler on the cheap and doesn't want to tinker.
>
> Has anyone used this?
>
> http://www.storeitcold.com/index.php
>
> Ed Westemeier
> Southwest Ohio
>

Jamil Zainasheff has a whole page on his Mr. Malty website devoted to
creating a walk-in cooler using an air conditioning unit:

http://www.mrmalty.com/brewstuff.php

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:58:10 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: HBD vs. AHA TechTalk

>
> 2) What happened to our HBD?  Well,
> for another thought, AHA TechTalk has
> exponentially increased in its
> availability and usefulness.
> Competition is tough, but it should
> make us stronger.  I still read both
> religiously.
>

Where AHA TechTalk has gotten better, it still has not quite reached
the quality of what HBD used to be.

One of the biggest drawbacks is that it is not publicly available.  I
link to the HBD archives all the time when emailing new brewers and
non-brewers.  I also occasionally link to it in my blog posts.  With
TechTalk, however, you have to be an AHA member to access it.  This
also means that search engines like Google will not pick it up.  I
think that that severely limits its availability.

As far as usefulness of AHA TechTalk is concerned, that has increased.
  Many of the experts that used to be regulars on HBD have moved over
there.  I see names like Dan Listermann and Jeff Renner semi-regularly
on AHA TechTalk and not so much on HBD anymore.  Even with that said,
I don't see all the experts that I used to.  Many of them have
disappeared into the ether.

One thing that is missing in AHA TechTalk are the traditions of HBD.
I don't think that Jeff Renner has ever posted his dad's famous eggnog
recipe over the holidays, or that people post their Rennerian
Coordinates.  There was also the Fortnight of Yeast that happened over
a couple of years on the HBD.  Things like that definitely gave the
HBD a sense of community that AHA TechTalk does not have.  Part of
that is the legacy of the HBD.  It has been around a long time, like
20 years, and these things developed over time.   That is hard to
compete with.

One last thing: There was always a feeling that the HBD is "owned" by
the people who post here.  It has always been self generated and self
regulating.  On the other hand, AHA TechTalk is definitely "owned" by
the AHA.  You are at the whims of the AHA.  For instance, I posted
something to AHA TechTalk and they edited my subject line.  My subject
line as I submitted it was, "My First Infection in Years, Sort Of" and
they shortened it to "My First Infection in Years."   It was just a
little change, but it changed the meaning of it, and I felt that I did
not have control over my own post.  That would never happen on the
HBD.

Those are my thoughts.  Anybody else?

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:08:24 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: I miss my Homebrew Digest

One thing that would help to modernize the HBD, is providing an RSS
feed.  I read many of my Yahoo Groups, blogs, and other sources of
brewing information that way.   I'm not sure what it would take to do
that, but I'm sure that that would increase readership, and hopefully,
participation.


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:55:35 -0500
From: "Trish (JD)" <qageek at gmail.com>
Subject: Need Air Tap / non-CO2 Keg Tap Connection

Hi All -

My husband and I have brewed together for 15+years.  Admittedly we are
far from tricky or sophisticated brewers, but we love our craft and
enjoy it fully.

Our dilemma: Our LHBS is no longer stocking the Air Tap Systems.
Rather than debate the merits of switching systems - which I'm certain
that we'll face as a topic for discussion soon enough - can anyone
point me to a place that carries them?  We're happy to support
someone's favorite shop to get the replacement equipment that we
require.

Thanks in advance,
Trish Simo Kush
qageek AT gmail DOT com


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Kilian <mikekilian1947 at yahoo.com>
Subject: First Time Post

I've been reading the digest for many years 
and have had problems getting subscribed, 
so this is a test and a note just to say hi.  I 
have been a homebrewer since 91 and have
even done this professionally as a partner in
a brewpub.  I really have gotten a lot of 
great information here.  I'll have to admit, 
some of it is really beyond my understanding, 
but I still feel that learning is ongoing.  I 
also wanted to echo the post by Dave 
Larsen in that I miss the HBD when there 
is nothing to update.  I hope it's always around.

To that end, I have a question.  I have tried a
number of times to get honey character in 
something.  I've done a few meads and beers 
with honey but as we all know, honey character
seems to be fleeting and since it is for the most
part fully fermentable, there rarely is any
character left.  I've used Honey Malt in beer to
get an hint of the character.  I want to try to 
get that honey character into something.  I have
in mind a Braggot of sorts with an OG of 1050
or so, using a bit of honey malt, pils and dextrin
malt to make up half the fementables with low
hopping to help the balance.  But how to get the
honey character?  Back sweeten it after sulfiting?
I don't want a big alcoholic brew.  Any thoughts?
Thanks for any help.

Mike



      


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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:55:52 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Honey

Hi, Mike,

Welcome to the digest from one of the janitors (taking advantage of his 
position to get in the first reply. :-)

You ask about getting honey character, and state that "as we all know, 
honey character seems to be fleeting and since it is for the most part 
fully fermentable, there rarely is any character left."

I wonder what kind of honey you were using, because as a sometime mead 
maker and experienced mead judge, I must respectfully disagree with that 
statement.  If you find some characterful, unprocessed varietal or 
"wildflower" honey, its character will definitely persist into the 
finished beverage.  If, on the other hand, you're using "Sue Bee" or 
Costco honey, you're starting with a significant handicap.  Honey that 
has been heat treated or pasteurized has lost a lot of aroma and flavor 
before you even buy it.

I suggest that you find a local beekeeper, tell him (or her) that you 
want honey with character to make a beer or mead, and try again.  You 
want a honey that has a distinct, pleasing aroma.  If you can smell 
flowers or spices in the aroma, so much the better.  Ideally, a good 
wildflower honey should smell like a summer meadow in the hot sun.  A 
varietal honey usually smells of the flower that is its primary 
constituent.  Thus, orange blossom honey smells like orange blossoms. 

Actually, if you don't have any local beekeepers, you should look for a 
source of orange blossom honey.  In the final round of the National 
Homebrew Competition, 5 out of the top 8 traditional meads were made 
with orange blossom honey.  It's just that good!

If you're making a braggot, at least 50% of the fermentable sugars 
should come from the honey.  With a flavorful honey, unless you're 
making a huge stout or something, you will taste the honey in the 
finished braggot.  In my experience, the best braggots match the 
darkness of the "beer" part of the recipe to the darkness and aroma of 
the honey.  Thus, a delicate floral honey is usually best matched with 
pale malt or wheat, and a strong honey such as buckwheat can stand up to 
a brown ale or perhaps even porter.

You talk of backsweetening.  The character of honey is primarily in the 
aroma.  I think you'll find that with good honey you don't need a lot of 
sweetness.  If you're making a beer, mash low so that you end up with 
lots of unfermentable sugars from the malt.  With a mead, getting a 
light, sweet result is trickier.  One way to do it is to use an ale 
yeast, which will usually stop before fermenting bone dry.  If it is too 
dry for your taste, you can add sorbate and then sweeten it with more 
honey.  (Sorbate will suppress, but not stop, fermentation.)

Even more so than with beer, the key to making good fermented honey 
beverages is the quality of the raw ingredient.  You also need to treat 
it gently.  Do not boil the honey.  I usually add it to water (or wort) 
that is just off the boil.  With my standard ratio of 4 gallons of water 
to 1 gallons of honey, adding the room temperature honey to boiling 
water drops the temperature to about 160, effectively pasteurizing the 
honey without subjecting it to extended heating.  I stir to mix well, 
then chill it with my (previously sanitized) chiller, and pitch the yeast.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor


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