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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Water Chemistry ("Dennis Lewis")
  Beer in San Jose / SF Bay area (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Yeast Performance Versus Pressure (Kai Troester)
  Re: Hops bitterness ("Dave Larsen")
  limit of attenuation (Fred M. Scheer)
  Re: Yeast Performance Versus Pressure ("Dave Larsen")


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Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:19:12 -0400
From: "Dennis Lewis" <dblewis at dblewis.com>
Subject: Re: Water Chemistry

Well, since we're tossing out confounding water profiles, I noticed
the hard way that my water changed. After making a black ale 1554
clone, I discovered that my efficiency had dropped like 15%. Testing
on the next batch revealed that the mash pH was below 5, like 4.7--no
wonder the starch conversion was struggling. I hadn't brewed in over
18 months and in that time, our local water system changed sources.
Here's the facts:

pH   =  10.67  <<< not a typo!
Ca  = 82 mg/L
Mg  = 4.7 mg/L
Na  = 50 mg/L
Cl  = 82 mg/L
SO4 = 52 mg/L

Hardness-Total = 91 mg/L as CaCO3
Hardness-Non-carbonate = 49 mg/L as CaCO3

Alkalinity-total = 41 mg/L as CaCO3
Alkalinity-Carbonate = 26 mg/L as CaCO3

I called the water dept and they said the high pH was right. The tech
didn't sound happy about it and said they were trying to bring it down
into the 8's. As chemistry was one of my favorite subjects, I feel
like a dunce when I'm trying to understand how to "normalize" this
water.

I've tried to do some research on water chem to bone up on  and I've
used Pro-mash and trial/error to adjust the mash. It's crazy--I'm
adding CaCO3 and NaHCO3 a couple grams at a time (in a 42L batch with
a 25L mash). I acidified my sparge water - a few mL's of 10%
phosphoric acid brings 40L of water down just below 7 pH.

One thing Pro-mash mentions is to split the water salts between the
mash water and the sparge water. I haven't tried that yet. I always
assumed that all the salt adjustments went in the mash and that the
sparge water would just dilute them out.

Can anyone shoot a couple educational links my way? I'm at the point
of buying some local spring water, but this reasonably soft water
should be "fixable" in my opinion.

Dennis Lewis
Warren OH
Loyal reader since 1993.


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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:46:24 +0200
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at domodul.ch>
Subject: Beer in San Jose / SF Bay area

Hi all

i'll be in San Jose on business in 3 weeks. Are there any places i 
shouldn't miss? I will have a rental car, so Sonoma and Napa is within 
reach as well.
I have been in the Bay area a couple of times before i jumped on the 
beer train. (I drank beer then, but i wasn't the real stuff.)

Interesting post on fermentability Kai.

Cheers Thomas





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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:04:19 -0400
From: Kai Troester <kai at braukaiser.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Performance Versus Pressure

> I'm fermenting 5 gallons of IPA in a 10 gallon keg and would like to
> naturally carbonate the beer. I'm at 1.021 now and expect to finish
> around 1.016 - 1.018. I'm curious if anyone can comment on the impacts
> of pressure on yeast. I understand that increased pressure can kill
> the yeast and increase ester production.

You will be fine. I naturally carbonate all my lagers before starting lagering
by transfering them to a keg when they still have residual extract (or  
even add
Kraeusen) and let the pressure build up until the desired carbonation level is
reached. After that I blow off excess pressure until the secondary  
fermentation
is complete.

Pressure does affect the yeast, in particular its growth. Like  
alcohol, CO2 is toxic for the yeast and they rather not be in a CO2  
environment. But at the tail
end of the fermentation that doesn't matter as much. Pressure primary
fermentation can actually be used to suppress ester and fusel alcohol
production, which is of interest for many commercial brewers who want  
to shorten
their fermentation times by fermenting at higer temperatures. So don't worry
about any increased ester production. If there is an affect, you can expect it
to be the other way around.

Kai




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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 08:57:36 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hops bitterness

>
> I thought I was the only one who felt this way. Nice to know that I'm
> not alone! Even so life with Saaz at $3 an ounce - if you can get it -
> is tough. I've found that Sterling works pretty well for bittering being
> closer to the smooth side between rough and smooth. Bittered with Sterling
> and finished with what Saaz I can get the Pils is pretty good.
>
> A.J.

I've fallen in love with Sterling.  I used it in my witbier and I'm
pretty happy with it.  It is also a hop that is easy to find, and it's
low in cohumulone.   This is one of the new hops that was profiled in
the March/April BYO magazine, where they regard it as blend of Saaz
and Mt. Hood.  Good stuff.


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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:27:01 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net (Fred M. Scheer)
Subject: limit of attenuation

HI Kai:

I saw your article in the last HBD about attenuation limits.
Also, I saw you mentioned Horst Dornbusch about his remarks
in one magazine that authentic Pilsner needs to be pH " 4.8 to 5 "
in the mash. I have brewed lot's of authentic Pilsners and other lagers
in my brewing life time, but never heard of such a recommendation.
To all Homebrewers, don't believe such a nonsense, stay with your
mash pH between 5.4 and 5.6 and you will have no attenuation problems.
I hope nobody brewed commercially a Pilsner with a mash pH below 5.

Fred


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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 15:50:50 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yeast Performance Versus Pressure

> I'm fermenting 5 gallons of IPA in a 10 gallon keg and would like to
> naturally carbonate the beer. I'm at 1.021 now and expect to finish
> around 1.016 - 1.018. I'm curious if anyone can comment on the impacts
> of pressure on yeast. I understand that increased pressure can kill
> the yeast and increase ester production. I'm using WLP51 - White Labs
> California V yeast. I don't recall at what PSI these effects occur.
> Does anyone know? Are there any other effects that I should be
> concerned with? Note: I have a variable pressure relief valve connect
> to this keg right now. It is set to release the pressure at 16 PSI,
> for the moment.

This is from memory, since I do not have the book in front of me, but
I remember Noonan had something to say about this in New Brewing Lager
Beer.   If I recall correctly, he said that lagering should not be
done over 5 lbs of pressure.  He did not say why, however.  I remember
this because I was lagering a Marzen in a corny keg at the time, and
was worried about the pressure.

As far as how this applies to you, you are not lagering; you are
carbonating.  Wouldn't it be easier to finish fermentation normally,
and then add some corn sugar to the keg to prime, like you would if
you were bottling?  That way you could control the amount of CO2
easier, and would not have to have a pressure relief valve.   Isn't
there a formula for corn sugar to volumes of CO2?

A quick search around the web and I found this BYO article on the subject:

http://www.byo.com/feature/1542.html

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


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