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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Cooling wort ("Darrell G. Leavitt")
  Cooling in hot weather ("Dave Draper")
  RE: Cooling Wort In Hot Weather (Steven Parfitt)
  Re: Cooling Wort in Hot Weather and Water Chemistry ("Taylor-Burton, Britt")
  cooling wort (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
  Re: Cooling Wort In Hot Weather (Derric)
  Re: wheat (Tim Howe)


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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 07:06:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Cooling wort

Dave;
 How about getting another chiller, and placing it in an ice bath, then
running that into your other chiller, then through the wort?
Darrell



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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:40:28 -0600
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Cooling in hot weather

Dear Friends,

Long time no post.  Nice to see the activity levels rising in 
response to Dave Larsen's clarion call!  

In #5360, Dave asks about post-boil cooling in hot climates.  I'm 
also a desert brewer here in Albuquerque, and my approach this time 
of year is to put a second immersion coil ahead of the one that goes 
into the kettle, and immerse that coil in a rectangular picnic cooler 
that has several bags of ice with water in it.  The cooling water 
then gets cooled itself in the ice bath prior to arriving at the 
immersion coil in the kettle.  I can get down to 25-26C in a 
reasonable amount of time, maybe 40 minutes or so, which is 
acceptable to me.  Generally I wait until the wort's T has dropped 
from boiling (96 C at my elevation) to below 60 or so before I add 
the ice bath, because the water out of the hose, warm as it is, has 
no trouble getting that first phase of cooling done.

A key here is to not flow the water too quickly, so that it has time 
to be in contact with the cooling coil.  Another is to stir the ice 
bath in some way (I just pick up one end of the cooler and slosh 
everything around) for the same reason we do that with an immersion 
chiller in the kettle-- the boundary layer around the copper coil 
needs to be broken up so that the process is not hindered.  You'll 
immediately notice a sharp T drop in the water coming out of the ice 
bath chiller after doing so, and when it creeps back up again, repeat 
the process.  I tend to stay close to the works during chilling and 
agitate both coils every five minutes or so for this purpose.

Hope this helps,

Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
I can't be bought for a mere $3.50. ---Jeff Renner






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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Parfitt <thegimp98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Cooling Wort In Hot Weather

IN HBD 5360, Dave Larsen requests suggestions on cooling wort in hot weather - 

I suggest you place a second coil of 1/4 to 3/8" dia 10' copper tubing
coiled in a 5 gallon bucket filled with crushed ice and water. use this
as a POST chiller to cool the wort as it goes into the fermenter. By
controlling the speed of the wort throught the chiller, you can control
the temp to some degree, and it is comming out too cool, add part of the
80F wort to the chilled wort to hit your desired temp. 

This is what I do for lagers to get the temp down.

Steven
>Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 10:55:44 -0700
>I live in the desert.  It can reach 112 degrees F pretty easily.
 ...snip...
>I use an immersion chiller, and my tap water is well above 80 degrees.
 ...snip...
>Right now, the way I cool things down is to cool the wort as
>far as I can with tap water, and then to use a cold liquor tank, which
>is basically a big blue plastic tub filled with ice water.  I gravity
>feed the ice water, which basically moves at a trickle, through my
>immersion chiller and it _slowly_ cools the wort down.  It takes
>longer than I like, well over an hour, and much of that time is spent
>in the danger zone, above 80 degrees F.>
>
>What solutions do others use?  Keep in mind that I do not have a pump
>(though I guess I could buy one).
>
>Dave
>Tucson, AZ



      


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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 09:38:11 -0500
From: "Taylor-Burton, Britt" <Britt.Taylor-Burton at spansion.com>
Subject:  Re: Cooling Wort in Hot Weather and Water Chemistry

First post ever!  We'll see if it gets through.

Dave Larsen asked about cooling wort with hot ground water and I'm in
the
same boat - tap water is in the upper 80s and into the 90s sometimes, 
depending on whether I'm brewing in the AM or PM.  Dave also mentions
that 
he's gravity-feeding cold water through his IC, so he's on the right
track 
but needs to add one thing to his setup - a cheap pond pump from Harbor 
Freight.  The one I bought, for $15, supplies six feet of head, which is

plenty to go from the ground to my keggle on the stand.

While the tap water is bringing the wort down to 110F, set the bucket on

the ground, put the pump in the bottom, and cover with ice.  When the
wort 
is at 110, redirect the outflow from the IC to the bucket and add just 
enough water to cover the pump.  Turn off the hose, attach the pump
outlet 
to the IC (I cut off the male end of a damaged hose and clamped it to
the 
pump stem), keep the IC draining back to the bucket, and start the pump.

I cut the tops off gallon milk jugs and freeze them to make ice and just

keep adding as needed, beating with a hammer to make flakes as the water

and wort temps start to converge. This arrangement will take me down
into 
the 40s. Gently stirring cuts the time in half. 

 ..............

Dennis Larson mentioned that he downloaded Brewater at my recommendation

and I'm interested in what he thinks about it.  I really like this
little 
freeware program and use it on every brew - Austin water is pH10+ so I
cut 
with 25 - 35% RO water and add salts as needed.  

 ..............

Speaking of high pH in tap water, my understanding is that the utilities
do 
this to keep calcium from plating out on the plumbing.  We take our
water 
from the Colorado river and it's chock-full of limestone.


Britt
South Austin, TX



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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 08:29:02 -0700
From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor at peak.org>
Subject: cooling wort

Dave Larsen asks about cooling strategies and we use a  recirculating, 
refrigerated water bath in our lab. It comes with an integral pump which 
will work well cooling wort.  It has a precision controller, so could be 
pressed into lagering duty.

We buy them on www.labx.com and often on eBay.  It's been hit and miss 
in our bottom-feeding forays in this market, and I'd be happy to discuss 
that a little further, if prodded. 
Immersion chillers with their own compact refrigerant systems are 
another way to go, but we see so many more recirc water baths available 
that we don't bother with the immersion chillers.
Patience rules here.  Dealers get good money for ensuring that the 
refrigeration cycle works and reputable ones will offer post sales 
service and warranties. However, the systems are pretty durable and 
buying from a lab closing or University surplus ($150-$400) can yield 
satisfaction.  Names like NESLAB, LAUDA, Techne, Brinkmann are common in 
the marketplace.  All are well built.  Just ask the question, 'Does it 
drop the temp below ambient?' and you have recourse with a seller who 
makes promises that aren't kept.
Plenty of opportunity for these units in AZ, as you can imagine.  They 
are definitely water savers and a precise, justifiable use of refined 
energy (electricity) as they control temperature in a very circumscribed 
manner.
Best of luck,
Scott Bruslind
Lacomb, OR



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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derric <derric1961 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling Wort In Hot Weather

>  Right now, the way I cool things down is to cool the wort as
> far as I can with tap water, and then to use a cold liquor tank, which
> is basically a big blue plastic tub filled with ice water.  I gravity
> feed the ice water, which basically moves at a trickle, through my
> immersion chiller and it _slowly_ cools the wort down.  It takes
> longer than I like, well over an hour, and much of that time is spent
> in the danger zone, above 80 degrees F.
>
> What solutions do others use?  Keep in mind that I do not have a pump
>(though I guess I could buy one).

You stated the easiest answer right there.  Buy a pump.  I have a sort
of "sump pump" which has a water hose fitting and takes water in from
the bottom.  Simply drop it into your "cold liquor tank" and connect the
hose connector to your IC.  I return the water back to the tank and just
put more ice in as needed.  Saves water and you can probably cool
into the 50s in 20 minutes or so.  (I use 2 or 3 frozen gallon jugs,
smashed with a hammer!).  Also stir both the tank and your wort.

 Derric



      


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Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:55:47 -0400
From: Tim Howe <howe at execulink.com>
Subject: Re: wheat


>Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:14:10 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Darrell G. Leavitt" <leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu>
>Subject: wheat
>
>What do you figure is the essential difference between Torrified Wheat and
>Malted Wheat in terms of head retention and such?

<snip>

>Way too much going on in this brew for me to see what the Torrified Wheat
>has done.
>Darrell

Way back when I started brewing (just over 10 years ago) I did a fair 
bit of experimenting with torrified wheat and malted wheat. My 
conclusion: neither do a damn thing for head retention, or at least, 
nothing that I noticed. I did however notice that both contributed a 
flavor to my beers that I ultimately decided that I didn't care for, 
and I eventually stopped using both. I still have partial bags of 
both in my basement... I really should think about getting them on 
the compost pile. Wonder if I need to grind them first?

Anyway, these days I add carafoam to lagers "for head retention". 
Again, I'm not sure that it actually does anything, but it doesn't 
detract from the end product, so I'll keep using it until the bag is 
gone. Mashing temperature and yeast choice are far more important 
variables. If you get these right, you shouldn't need special malt 
additions for "head retention" IMO.

Cheers,

Tim




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